Shadowcraft Mages and Arcane Disciple

[ILM]

Yes yes, Miracle, I know but that's actually not what I'm asking about (well, not only)!

Arcane Disciple has two things I'm wondering about:
- it says "choose a deity and then choose a domain available to clerics of that deity". Nowhere do I see you actually have to worship said deity, correct?
- it also says the spells are based off Wis for being able to prepare them and save DCs. Now, how does that interact with shadow illusions? I'm not preparing the spells, I'm emulating them with a silent image turned to a shadow illusion. Usually (like when emulating an evocation spell) I'll use the DC of the actual heightened silent image, since that's what I'm casting (so the emulated effect benefits from illusion-only DC increases). By analogy, the domain effect I'd emulate would also have the DC of the heightened silent image used to emulate it. The way I see it then, if you're going to emulate the domain spells with a Shadowcraft Mage, you can pretty much ignore that paragraph about Wis. Does anyone see anything debatable about this?

[JaronK]

Honestly, I've never bought it simply because the ability lets you emulate spells off the Sorc/Wiz list, not your spell list.  So while Arcane Disciple puts the spells on your list (and perhaps you happen to be a Wizard) it doesn't put the spells on the Sorc/Wiz list... and thus the spell can't be emulated at all.

JaronK

[ILM]

Yes, but Arcane Disciple doesn't add the spell to your list, it adds them to "your class list of arcane spells". A strict reading would then tell me that if I'm a Wizard, it's adding them to the Wizard spell list.

[CrimsonDeath]

So clearly, any Wizard can learn any domain spell, because someone somewhere has chosen that domain with Arcane Disciple.

[ILM]

Let's do this differently: in all of 3.5e, can anyone think of one instance where a spell is explicitly added to a class spell list as opposed to your own list of spells you can cast?

Also, does anyone have any answers to my questions in the OP?

[X-Codes]

Let's do this differently: in all of 3.5e, can anyone think of one instance where a spell is explicitly added to a class spell list as opposed to your own list of spells you can cast?

Also, does anyone have any answers to my questions in the OP?

It's not.  Any implications of Wizards or StP Erudites being able to learn the entire Cleric spell list because of Rainbow Servant, Southern Magician, or some other bull like that is just plain wrong.

[JaronK]

If it were truly added to the Wizard/Sorcerer class list, then every Wizard could learn and cast the spell once one of them takes Arcane Disciple.  That's obviously incorrect.  Instead, it's added to your class list, which is to say "Bob's class list is now the Wizard list + the spells gained via Arcane Disciple."

JaronK

[BeholderSlayer]

I think it's a pretty debatable point whether an individual wizard's "your class spell list" and "the sorcerer/wizard spell list" can be the "same." I don't really have a strong opinion either way, except that any DM letting you have free miracles nearly at-will is a total fucking idiot.

[ILM]

any DM letting you have free miracles nearly at-will is a total fucking idiot.

Well that much I can agree on .

Let's do this differently: in all of 3.5e, can anyone think of one instance where a spell is explicitly added to a class spell list as opposed to your own list of spells you can cast?

Also, does anyone have any answers to my questions in the OP?

It's not.

Okay well if that would have been the only instance in all of 3.5, then I'll concede it's probably not. Thanks!