« previous next »
Pages: 1

Author Topic: How many rules do you need for fun?  (Read 3391 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Endarire

  • Man in Gorilla Suit
  • *****
  • Posts: 2171
    • Email
How many rules do you need for fun?
« on: April 18, 2011, 04:00:46 AM »
Some systems are crunch-heavy and try to model lots and lots of little things.  (D&D 3.5, natch.)  Other systems ignore the minor details and cover only the most important bits.

How many rules do you need for a game to be fun?  I enjoy D&D 3.5 because of its vast ability to make what I want, but I've also studied the 3.x rules the past decade.  I prefer internal consistency.  I want things done right more than fast.
Logged
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Quote from: Caelic on September 25, 2011, 06:34:19 PM
Quote from: X-Codes on September 25, 2011, 03:54:52 PM
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

veekie

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 9034
  • WARNING: Homing Miko
Re: How many rules do you need for fun?
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2011, 04:32:54 AM »
Rules-light systems can be perfectly fine and in fact, adding rules seems to screw up those games more than removing rules. Compare World of Darkness with FATE for example.
Logged
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

Quote from: Soda on July 22, 2009, 02:48:16 PM
"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

The_Mad_Linguist

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 8780
  • Simulated Thing
Re: How many rules do you need for fun?
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2011, 07:38:00 AM »
How many washers do you need for an airplane?
Logged
Linguist, Mad, Unique, none of these things am I
My custom class: The Priest of the Unseen Host
Planetouched Handbook
Want to improve your character?  Then die.

Kajhera

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1167
Re: How many rules do you need for fun?
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2011, 10:00:06 AM »
How many rules do you need to have fun?

One, at least an implicit one. It's really difficult to do anything with less.
Logged

RobbyPants

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 7139
Re: How many rules do you need for fun?
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2011, 10:06:54 AM »
It depends on what you want to play.  Are you talking D&D, or games in general?
Logged
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

AleksanderTheGreat

  • That monkey with the orange ass cheeks
  • ****
  • Posts: 290
  • Dumbass. o_o
Re: How many rules do you need for fun?
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2011, 06:08:21 PM »
Talking about rules, I need just ONE:
Most important thing is - we play to have FUN!
Logged
Quote from: Sephirothsword117
Quote from: Solo
Optimizing is the antithesis of roleplaying because it takes focus away from the important parts of the game.
I'm inclined to disagree. People work hard on there characters, there personality, back ground, appearance, so forth. No one wants there character that they have invested time, energy, thought, and probably emotion in to be killed because they didn't take strong enough feats or skills or spells or what have you.

Endarire

  • Man in Gorilla Suit
  • *****
  • Posts: 2171
    • Email
Re: How many rules do you need for fun?
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2011, 08:41:12 PM »
What about D&D?  Do you conveniently ignore a large portion of the rules?  Does your GM?

If we agree to play <this game>, how strict an adherence to the rules do you expect?
Logged
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Quote from: Caelic on September 25, 2011, 06:34:19 PM
Quote from: X-Codes on September 25, 2011, 03:54:52 PM
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

Bozwevial

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 4497
  • Developing a relaxed attitude to danger.
Re: How many rules do you need for fun?
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2011, 10:39:34 PM »
No rules: You are freeforming. Expect a great deal of, "Nuh-uh, you missed!"

Too many rules: Roll for anal circumference.

At my table, rules are ignored if they are silly and inconsequential, modified if they're silly but essential mechanics, and so on.
Logged

RobbyPants

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 7139
Re: How many rules do you need for fun?
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2011, 10:13:26 AM »
Quote from: Endarire on April 18, 2011, 08:41:12 PM
What about D&D?  Do you conveniently ignore a large portion of the rules?  Does your GM?

If we agree to play <this game>, how strict an adherence to the rules do you expect?
It's important that the group agrees.  The biggest problems often come when different people expect different things.  You can quickly feel cheated that way.  Rules that change or magically don't apply on a whim lead to MC-fiat, which leads to a loss of player agency.

If your asking my personal opinion? I like to know the rules up front so I can make informed decisions.  I like to assume RAW, with some unworkable stuff scrapped (like Craft, Diplomacy, and Hide), and whatever houserules MC is using.  I like to know how he'd handle certain things like illusions.  It's not so much the number of rules that I care about, but more the consistency.  Although, all things being equal, I'd rather there be a rule to handle a situation than having MC make it up.  I'd rather know that it was thought out than play Mother May I, or Magic Tea Party with Mister Cavern.
Logged
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

veekie

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 9034
  • WARNING: Homing Miko
Re: How many rules do you need for fun?
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2011, 11:31:15 AM »
Quote from: Bozwevial on April 18, 2011, 10:39:34 PM
No rules: You are freeforming. Expect a great deal of, "Nuh-uh, you missed!"

Too many rules: Roll for anal circumference.
The soul and center of it all.
Few to no rules is playable, given the right group.
Many terrible rules is not, no matter what group.
So better no rules than bad rules, but good rules trump them both.

Like Robby said, the rules are to put everyone at the same table with regards to conflict resolution, setting expectations and character expectations. What you cannot do are as important as what you can. HOW you do it is the practicality(see grappling rules in nearly any game system), some rules are mechanically superior but would require a computer to perform in a feasible manner.
Logged
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

Quote from: Soda on July 22, 2009, 02:48:16 PM
"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

Ikeren

  • That monkey with the orange ass cheeks
  • ****
  • Posts: 224
    • Email
Re: How many rules do you need for fun?
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2011, 07:08:06 PM »
About 4304. No less, no more.
Logged

Bloody Initiate

  • King Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 798
    • Email
Re: How many rules do you need for fun?
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2011, 10:29:51 PM »
There are always rules. Even when you try to throw them all out the window.

Furthermore, I find full free-form requires more trust and intimacy than I enjoy in most of my friends. We use as many rules as most of us know and accept. I doubt any group plays with ALL the rules. When we're first trying out a new game we tend to try to follow the rules as much as possible, but we are new to the game so we don't know them all. After that we determine which rules we like and which we don't like. We tend to eliminate or house-rule the ones we dislike.
Logged
I don't employ memes. Mass-produced ammunition, even from reputable manufacturers, tends to malfunction on occasion.

The_Mad_Linguist

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 8780
  • Simulated Thing
Re: How many rules do you need for fun?
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2011, 11:06:05 PM »
Quote from: Ikeren on April 19, 2011, 07:08:06 PM
About 4304. No less, no more.
I'm behind you on that, provided you start indexing at rule 0.
Logged
Linguist, Mad, Unique, none of these things am I
My custom class: The Priest of the Unseen Host
Planetouched Handbook
Want to improve your character?  Then die.

Sunic_Flames

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 4782
  • The Crusader of Logic.
Re: How many rules do you need for fun?
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2011, 08:52:57 PM »
Logged
Smiting Imbeciles since 1985.

If you hear this music, run.

And don't forget:

Quote from: BeholderSlayer on November 04, 2010, 11:08:45 AM

There is no greater contribution than Hi Welcome.

Quote from: RelentlessImp on November 06, 2010, 06:19:55 PM
Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

IP proofing and avoiding being CAPed OR - how to make characters relevant in the long term.

Friends don't let friends be Short Bus Hobos.

[spoiler]
Quote from: Sinfire Titan on October 21, 2010, 02:59:23 AM
Sunic may be more abrasive than sandpaper coated in chainsaws (not that its a bad thing, he really does know what he's talking about), but just posting in this thread without warning and telling him he's an asshole which, if you knew his past experiences on WotC and Paizo is flat-out uncalled for. Never mind the insults (which are clearly 4Chan-level childish). You say people like Sunic are the bane of the internet? Try looking at your own post and telling me you are better than him.

Here's a fun fact: You aren't. By a few leagues.
[/spoiler]

Kajhera

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1167
Re: How many rules do you need for fun?
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2011, 12:12:09 PM »
Well, in Magic: The Gathering I want there to be more rules than I will ever actually read - because many of them are in fact error handling, and I can go to them for a reference as to what to do when the basic rules don't work.

Chess, I would get rather antsy should there be many more or fewer rules than usual.

D&D, the rules aren't meant to cover everything. But it's very nice when they do cover things.

I don't really care about the number of rules as much as how complete and consistent they are. If I can easily get to a point where there's no discernible way to resolve a situation and no indication of how to proceed in the rules of the game, I'm liable to get somewhat frustrated.
Logged

Halna

  • Monkey bussiness
  • *
  • Posts: 11
    • Email
Re: How many rules do you need for fun?
« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2011, 04:03:23 AM »
I prefer a base ruleset, then a rule-making kit, so I can do whatever I want.

Failing that, just one: Drink.
Logged
Pages: 1
« previous next »