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Author Topic: Legend, an RPG made by optimizers, for optimizers [Beta]  (Read 3959 times)
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Solo
Organ Grinder
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Posts: 2684


Solo the Sorcelator, at your service


« on: April 06, 2011, 08:25:26 AM »

Designed to put the heroism back in classic fantasy, Legend marks a return to the tradition of fast, cinematic combat, combined an elegant system for resolving social encounters. Oh and we have a world full of airships, and the pirates who love them.

The design team for Legend includes such noted optimizers as Doc Roc and most of the team behind the test of spite; Innabinder, Eldariel, Gralamin, ImperialSpectre, 9mm, Terminally_S1ck and, of course, me.

We'd like to know....

What differences bug you?
Which do you like?
What are the stumbling blocks?
What do you want?
What would you miss about 3.x?
Is there OGL content or homebrew you'd like to see ported or supported?

« Last Edit: April 06, 2011, 08:30:04 AM by Solo » Logged


"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down!"

The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.
Bozwevial
Organ Grinder
*****
Posts: 4497


Developing a relaxed attitude to danger.


« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2011, 04:29:38 AM »

I'm still looking over it (and I know it's still in beta), but I like what I see so far a great deal. I may try to run a game with this soon. You've outdone yourself, Solo--you, Inna, and the rest of the team.

Quick question, though: If I'm in a social encounter and tell a guard that I'm the Emperor in disguise (which, presumably, is a Bluff DC of around 35), succeeding on my roll, is his counter-roll made against the same DC? What if I fail? Does he still have to make a DC 35 check to gain a token, or is he allowed to make an easy check to earn it?
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imperialspectre
Monkey bussiness
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Posts: 4


« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2011, 05:30:45 AM »

Quick question, though: If I'm in a social encounter and tell a guard that I'm the Emperor in disguise (which, presumably, is a Bluff DC of around 35), succeeding on my roll, is his counter-roll made against the same DC? What if I fail? Does he still have to make a DC 35 check to gain a token, or is he allowed to make an easy check to earn it?

That is not exactly how it works.

The Bluff skill is used generally to mislead someone you're in an encounter with, and the DC is based on (in this case) the guard's level and Wisdom (the formula is 10 + level + Wisdom mod). A successful roll doesn't necessarily equate to the guard actually believing that you're the Emperor in disguise and immediately passing you through the checkpoint on his own initiative; a reasonable response would likely be to call a superior in and check up on your bona fides, although several successful checks and token accumulation could possibly persuade the guard to pass you through. In any case, the guard would still get a check with a skill of his choice and an appropriate DC; many guards would make a Perception check to examine you and your documents, with a DC of 10 + your level + your Charisma modifier, and gain a token on a successful check - perhaps by finding a small discrepancy?
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Penny Dreadful Gaming
Dark Overlord of Design and Testing

Legend Beta PDF is here. Download and provide feedback, and the Lords of the Far Realms will asphn'glui ftaghn...
Bozwevial
Organ Grinder
*****
Posts: 4497


Developing a relaxed attitude to danger.


« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2011, 06:37:23 AM »

The Bluff skill is used generally to mislead someone you're in an encounter with, and the DC is based on (in this case) the guard's level and Wisdom (the formula is 10 + level + Wisdom mod). A successful roll doesn't necessarily equate to the guard actually believing that you're the Emperor in disguise and immediately passing you through the checkpoint on his own initiative; a reasonable response would likely be to call a superior in and check up on your bona fides, although several successful checks and token accumulation could possibly persuade the guard to pass you through. In any case, the guard would still get a check with a skill of his choice and an appropriate DC; many guards would make a Perception check to examine you and your documents, with a DC of 10 + your level + your Charisma modifier, and gain a token on a successful check - perhaps by finding a small discrepancy?
Yes, I understand that much. My question was what, if anything, affected the various skill DCs. Presumably one would devise some sort of adjustment to account for various circumstances--it's one thing to tell a guard you're a repairman, but quite different to tell him you're his leader in disguise performing a surprise inspection, and I'm not of the belief that the two should be of equal difficulty. Would this be an ad-hoc adjustment?
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imperialspectre
Monkey bussiness
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Posts: 4


« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2011, 05:18:38 PM »

I've always preferred making a skill check, then RPing the results of the skill check, with "uhhh...I'm the king in disguise!" probably being a fairly low result. Kind of like Fallout, where if your Speech result/score isn't good enough, you get worse dialogue choices.

I worry about imposing ad hoc bonuses and penalties on skill checks based on someone's claims, because it's very likely to uniquely screw over PCs - NPCs don't generally say stuff that's obviously stupid, because the GM will tend to gravitate towards making them "reasonable," but players say stupid things all the time. I'm not sure that we should make mechanics that exacerbate the effects of OOC foolishness on player characters; seems they have enough trouble with it as is.
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Penny Dreadful Gaming
Dark Overlord of Design and Testing

Legend Beta PDF is here. Download and provide feedback, and the Lords of the Far Realms will asphn'glui ftaghn...
Nebuchadnezzar
Ring-Tailed Lemur
**
Posts: 19


« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2011, 11:33:51 PM »

I like the division of magic into funky warlock, utility/battlefield control, and healing/generalist. Keeping the spelllist tight, and limited in level, is an excellent idea. I think a dwarven tactitian switching tactical insight for shaman casting would play as a neat enough caster.

What does the skald look like? It apparently has a spell list, but can't be obtained through multiclassing.

I'm still skimming, but the social system seems better than most.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2011, 11:53:17 PM by Nebuchadnezzar » Logged
Kajhera
Hong Kong
****
Posts: 1167


« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2011, 12:54:46 AM »

At the moment, I'm missing page numbers for chapters; considering printing it out to read. Bit challenging to read through with netbook screen things.

Unfortunately those who might want me to start up a game soon are probably the least open to trying random new game systems, but I'll see if I can work in a beta test sometime.  Tongue
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Kajhera
Hong Kong
****
Posts: 1167


« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2011, 01:18:06 AM »

I ran it by my group, here are my usual DM's initial impressions. I'll let you know if I get more data or form my own opinions.

Quote from: zombiemode
brief skim:

pros:
standardized hp and skills
use of a single ability for stuff
ranged attacks less useless
gun monks
a sane(r) CR system
social encounters

both pro/con:
Significant rigidity in character building
reduction in complexity of many aspects

cons:
magic items for leveling up?
incomplete
poorly defined outcomes of some abilities (could be an extension of simply being imcomplete)
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imperialspectre
Monkey bussiness
*
Posts: 4


« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2011, 03:40:44 AM »

I like the division of magic into funky warlock, utility/battlefield control, and healing/generalist. Keeping the spelllist tight, and limited in level, is an excellent idea. I think a dwarven tactitian switching tactical insight for shaman casting would play as a neat enough caster.

What does the skald look like? It apparently has a spell list, but can't be obtained through multiclassing.

I'm still skimming, but the social system seems better than most.

Skald is not going to be released in the core rules, and will likely be on standard ability tracks when it is. It, and the current Sage (which is also being rebuilt because it failed multiple destructive playtests), are artifacts from a version of Legend where tracks weren't the standard method of ability progression.

Glad you like the social system. We do too.

I ran it by my group, here are my usual DM's initial impressions. I'll let you know if I get more data or form my own opinions.

Quote from: zombiemode
brief skim:

pros:
standardized hp and skills
use of a single ability for stuff
ranged attacks less useless
gun monks
a sane(r) CR system
social encounters

both pro/con:
Significant rigidity in character building
reduction in complexity of many aspects

cons:
magic items for leveling up?
incomplete
poorly defined outcomes of some abilities (could be an extension of simply being imcomplete)

The idea that we give magic items for leveling up is an unfortunate miscommunication. We basically intend for that number to be the capacity for any one creature to attune to/power/use effectively. It is intended as a minimum, for purposes of game balance and test-building, but DMs can certainly allow players to find more items and "switch out" their attunements. We will be providing rules for item-switching soon.

I apologize for the incompleteness. Once we fix the Sage, we will be freezing new mechanic creation in favor of finishing items and adding fluff, examples, and explanations. Basically, we'll be turning a sort of SRD rewrite into an actual, organized, typeset book. We don't have printing lined up yet, but we'll be creating a professionally-built PDF that will match up well with major publishers' work. It'll be a few weeks before we can release the workings of that document for review, but hopefully it will solve a lot of your DM's concerns.
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Penny Dreadful Gaming
Dark Overlord of Design and Testing

Legend Beta PDF is here. Download and provide feedback, and the Lords of the Far Realms will asphn'glui ftaghn...
bkdubs123
Organ Grinder
*****
Posts: 2724


« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2011, 07:44:09 AM »

To whom it may concern/interest: I've been working on a Fighter Remix over at GitP intended to be played with 3.5, but also with the option built-in for Legend-style multiclass Tracks.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2011, 11:10:48 PM by bkdubs123 » Logged
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