Author Topic: The new Vorpal  (Read 6112 times)

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AfterCrescent

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Re: The new Vorpal
« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2008, 08:26:06 PM »
It is slightly different since it kills them. By that wording, it would work against a troll too, insta-kill. Penetrating regen and all that. Normally the troll would just regrow his head.
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katans

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Re: The new Vorpal
« Reply #21 on: July 22, 2008, 06:25:22 AM »
Exactly. And it would work on hydras or ettins. And yes, of course it only works on a natural 20, because otherwise everyone would wander around with +1 Keen Vorpal scimitars for 30% chance of auto-killing everything... that would be a bit too powerful for my taste.

RobbyPants

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Re: The new Vorpal
« Reply #22 on: July 22, 2008, 10:48:10 AM »
Maybe it's just my personal taste, but I never liked the idea of Vorpal killing a troll or a hydra.  Some things can get by without a head, and I don't think vorpal should bypass that.

No, reading everyone's comments, I'm wondering if it's best just to let it alone.  Too many things are immune to crits, and it makes it such a situational advantage (similar to Brilliant Energy).  The best suggestion I've seen so far was to force a Coup De Grace on a crit, but I'm still not sure if I want to implement that.
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AfterCrescent

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Re: The new Vorpal
« Reply #23 on: July 22, 2008, 10:54:09 AM »
I'm still confused as to why people keep mentioning immunity to crits?  Vorpal states it happens regardless of immunity to crits.
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Sunic_Flames

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Re: The new Vorpal
« Reply #24 on: July 22, 2008, 11:59:43 AM »
I'm still confused as to why people keep mentioning immunity to crits?  Vorpal states it happens regardless of immunity to crits.

Because the variation suggested it be a CdG, which does not work against immunity to crits.

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I see no mention that it works against those immune to critical hits, though it does say undeads and constructs don't care. *shrugs*

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Coup de Grace

As a full-round action, you can use a melee weapon to deliver a coup de grace to a helpless opponent. You can also use a bow or crossbow, provided you are adjacent to the target.

You automatically hit and score a critical hit. If the defender survives the damage, he must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + damage dealt) or die. A rogue also gets her extra sneak attack damage against a helpless opponent when delivering a coup de grace.

Delivering a coup de grace provokes attacks of opportunity from threatening opponents.

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AfterCrescent

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Re: The new Vorpal
« Reply #25 on: July 22, 2008, 12:08:07 PM »
Well just because a creature is immune to a critical hit does not mean you can't confirm the critical hit against said creature. Upon doing so (after rolling a natural 20, initially), the Vorpal weapon severs the creature's head (if it has one). That's a special ability that has absolutely nothing to do with dependency on an actual critical hit being effective (merely one being triggered). Therefore immunity to it would have no effect.

Eother way, forcing a coup-de-grace, in my opinion, actually weakens the property because it will allow a save.  If it just triggered on a critical, rather than on a nat 20, it would be closer to the price tag given it.

Edit: The FAQ explains the vorpal quality (which, I guess, is where I read it :shrug)
« Last Edit: July 22, 2008, 12:10:25 PM by aftercrescent »
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RobbyPants

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Re: The new Vorpal
« Reply #26 on: July 22, 2008, 12:36:11 PM »
Well, would allowing the ablility per the DMG to trigger on a crit instead of a natural 20 be too much?  Obviously, Keen high crit range weapons would be favored for this, as 30% of attacks made would threaten a beheading.
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Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
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I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
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Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
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I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
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When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
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AfterCrescent

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Re: The new Vorpal
« Reply #27 on: July 22, 2008, 12:39:16 PM »
I, personally, don't think so. I mean, yes, high crit range weapons will be essential, but we're still talking a +5 bonus. On top of that, you still have to HIT with that 15, and that won't always happen. :shrug
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archangel.arcanis

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Re: The new Vorpal
« Reply #28 on: July 24, 2008, 02:43:16 PM »
aftercrescent has an excellent point.  In order to score a critical hit you must still hit the AC unless it is a natural 20 on the die.

trust me you don't want to allow any threat to be an auto hit that just gets stupid.  In a 3.0 game i was in they insisted on doing it that way despite my telling them it was a bad idea, so i played a character with 2 keen rapiers and imp. crit on them. In 3.0 they stacked.  I then took a bunch of levels in rogue to get sneak attack. When anything 12+ is an auto hit they didn't like it very much.
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RobbyPants

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Re: The new Vorpal
« Reply #29 on: July 24, 2008, 03:32:34 PM »
I would expect a dedicated melee fighter to hit on at least a 15 on his primary attack.  Perhaps not for his itteratives.

Plus, if I expanded vorpal to work on crits instead of natural 20s, I'd want it to work on a confirmed crit, not merely a threat.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

AfterCrescent

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Re: The new Vorpal
« Reply #30 on: July 24, 2008, 05:33:30 PM »
Plus, if I expanded vorpal to work on crits instead of natural 20s, I'd want it to work on a confirmed crit, not merely a threat.
Exactly like it does now, just remove the "nat 20 only" by-law. :D
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