The new Vorpal

[RobbyPants]

(crosspost at gleemax)

The Vorpal weapon enhancement sucks (at least for the +5 cost).  I was thinking about changing it so it instead increases the weapon's critical multiplier by one.  What does everyone think of this?

Also, what should the cost of the ability be?  My first guess is about +3.

[DaveTheMagicWeasel]

+3 seems grossly overrpiced to me.  +1 maybe +2 I'd have said.

Or, just use the Maiming quality in Minis HB (possibly in MIC as well?)

[RobbyPants]

What does Maiming do?

[Chemus]

It is in MIC. Maiming costs +1 and deals 1d6 extra damage per (crit multiplier-1) on a critical hit.

What do you want vorpal to do, anyway? What is the ultimate goal there?

[Sunic_Flames]

Given the number of crit immunes, +1 is about as good as it gets.

[AfterCrescent]

Vorpal is worth more if it works when you crit, not just on a 20. Suddenly someone who has a crit range of 15-20 with a vorpal weapon and gets a wand of wraith strike can take out a dragon with barely a breath.  That's the first change I'd make. Remember it functions even if they're immune to crits.

[Sinfire Titan]

I'd rather have Wounding and the one from BoVD, which means 2 points of Con per hit at the cost of a +5 total.

[RobbyPants]

It is in MIC. Maiming costs +1 and deals 1d6 extra damage per (crit multiplier-1) on a critical hit.

Not bad.  I guess there's little reason to re-create the ability.

What do you want vorpal to do, anyway? What is the ultimate goal there?

Good question.  I guess when I look at the DMG, I see an aweome iconic ability reduced to trash, and no reason to take it.  I was looking for a way to give it life again, and this was the first thing I came up with.

[Chemus]

Vorpal, IIRC, has always killded the target on a 20 (or whatever...). Unless the target was headless by nature. How do you want to represent that? Alternately, do you want to represent that? To make it worth the price, perhaps allow it to not be so random (thank OneWinged4ngel for the gist of this idea, he pressed it on this thread.):

Vorpal allows you to attempt a Coup de grace action against opponents that aren't helpless. It has a pricetag of ... +3, +4?

[RobbyPants]

Vorpal allows you to attempt a Coup de grace action against opponents that aren't helpless. It has a pricetag of ... +3, +4?

As a full-round action, do you think?  Would it provoke an AoO?  When does it trigger?  When you crit?

The idea is interesting, but I'd have to think of the specifics.

[Chemus]

Well, I was just thinking the allowing CDG without the 'helpless' requirement, but requiring all of the other stuff would be pretty balanced. You'd still provoke an AoO, have to take a full round action doing it. It would automatically hit and crit, and then the fort save. Yes/No/Perhaps/FixIt?

[RobbyPants]

Well, I was just thinking the allowing CDG without the 'helpless' requirement, but requiring all of the other stuff would be pretty balanced. You'd still provoke an AoO, have to take a full round action doing it. It would automatically hit and crit, and then the fort save. Yes/No/Perhaps/FixIt?

The auto hit/crit seems a bit much.  You could insta-kill someone you caught flat-footed with no penalty (assuming you were close enough to do it).

On my post at WotC, someone suggested just having the CDG mechaninc (Fort save or die, DC 10 + damage dealt) triggered whenever you crit.  This might be a nie approach.  Now it would work on a crit instead of just a natural 20, and the strength of the DC would be based on your damage.  Thus, weapons that crit more often would have a lower DC, and weapons that don't crit as often would have a higher DC.

Thoughts?

[Sunic_Flames]

Falchion. Lose 2 damage compared to a greatsword. 30% crit rate with Keen or Improved Crit.

With that said, immunity to crits gives immunity to CDG I think, and immunity to crits is all over the place. *shrugs*

[RobbyPants]

With that said, immunity to crits gives immunity to CDG I think, and immunity to crits is all over the place. *shrugs*

Well, I guess I'd have to think of monsters that die when the lose their heads that are also immune to crits.  I'm not sure how much overlap there is.

[Chemus]

Vampire for one

[Eldariel]

Most undead in general fall under that list. I mean, there's the old wisdom about Zombies: "The only way to kill a Zombie is to destroy the brain." Many undead are at least heavily inconvenienced by losing their head.

[Smudgy]

What if the DC was based off of DC 10 + 1/2 your ECL + some Stat mod (probably strength) instead? I mean, say if an ubercharger wielding a falchion hits somebody with a vorpal weapon like the one posted before me. Ok, You need to make a DC...*calculates numbers*...10,576 Fort save or die. Of course, with an ubercharger the vorpal wouldn't matter, but the point stands. It's too easy to increase damage to have it be viable for a save I think. But even with the option I presented, it's still not worth it. Immunity to criticals is way too abundant for anyone to spend their money on this, even if it was less than a +5 enhancement. Maybe if it had a set price like some of the enhancements in the MIC, but even so, I probably wouldn't buy it. Just my two cents.

[RobbyPants]

Yeah, I think the biggest problem here is how many creatures are immune to crits.  It seems the ability is either going to be useless or overpowered.

I guess I just have a soft spot for some of the old iconics.  This is probably why I'm not moving on to 4E

[katans]

I like to Coup-de-grace idea... how about "On a natural roll of 20, the target has to make a Fortitude save against a DC of 10+damage dealt by the weapon (not counting additional damage from special abilities such as Flaming) or die. This ability works on creatures normally immune to critical hits and on Undead."

And I'd make it +4 with this wording.

[RobbyPants]

That's no different than the DMG Vorpal other than they make a save instead of you confirming the crit.  It still only works on a natural 20.