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AtomicKitKat

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Pseudoclasses Handbook and the ghost levels theory
« on: April 01, 2011, 03:11:06 PM »
I'm reposting this before web.archive deletes it(as has happened to one or two other old threads I tried digging up). Bear in mind that I'm going to format for readability rather than style. More or less the same as the original text, with minor typo fixes where I spotted them while adding font/spoiler tags.

As originally posted by Antarx on Gleemax.

Introduction and Gratefulnesses
[spoiler]
If you find grammar, orthography or concordance failures in the text (I'm sure there's a lot), please PM me.

Thanks to everyone that is helping to make this handbook, with advices, suggestions or simply posting comments:
archerpwr, awaken_D_M_golem, BowenSilverclaw1986, CubeKnight, Green_eyes, Grundle, JanusJones, jameswilliamogle, JaronK, kreesteeyan, LeAvantgardeNoire, Nanshork, Surreal, Tshern

Thank you very much to all.
[/spoiler]

The PseudoClasses Handbook
Last update 12-19-07

What is a Pseudoclass?
Quote:
Quote
Originally Posted by The_Shaman View Post
Finally, another edition of "PrCs and you: a ranger's guide to not being a ranger:"
That quote made me think about building a iconic ranger without any levels in ranger class. Then, I started to search alternative class features, and I found that is possible to make it.

Example:
We can use the barbarian variant from UA (lose rage, gain FE and combat style) and the dungeonscape alternative class features (lose trapsense, gain trapkiller) to build a ranger that can scout in advance, and with most of the ranger classical features. This is what I called PseudoRanger

So, in resume, a PseudoClass is a X class variant, that allow us to roleplay it as if it were another different Y class.

Nomenclature:
X Pseudo Y
X is the actual class and
Y is the emulated class.

The previous example was a Barbarian PseudoRanger


Kinds of Pseudoclasses
From my point of view, there's 3 kinds of Pseudoclasses

   1. Classes that, with the proper changes, allow us to use them as a typical member from some other class, WITH THE SAME FEATURES.
   2. Classes that, with the proper changes, allow us to use them as a typical member from some other class, WITH EQUIVALENT FEATURES.
   3. Races, feats, magic items, etc, that allow us to mimic class features.

Example:

   1. The previous Barbarian has ranger features (F.E, and combat style) and can qualify for certains feats or PrC. So, this barbarian is a PseudoRanger type 1
   2. A bard with nature skills as class skills can be ROLEPLAYED as a Ranger. He can introduce himself as a ranger, and the can mimic his features (use a bow, cast healing spells, calm animals, hide, spot, track, etc) and debilities (he may refuse heavier armours than light armour), but hardly can qualify for feats or PrC. So, this bard is a PseudoRanger type 2
   3. The celestial template (gives a smite evil feature) allows us to qualify for Ascetic Knight. The Improved unarmed strike feat allow us to qualify for the Ascetic Hunter feat. Both examples works no matters what is your base class. That template and feat are from type 3



Why is a Pseudoclass interesting?
Because some features stacks.
Example:

    * A Barbarian Pseudoranger (as described in the example above) 1 - Ranger 1 - Paladin PseudoRanger 1 (described below) has 3 Favoured enemies... at level 3.
    * A Barbarian PseudoRanger 2 - Ranger 2, has 2 favoured enemies, and both weapon styles.

Also, sometimes is easier for a player, to use a Pseudoclass to improve some features rather than picking some PrC. Pseudoclasses are more flexible, since most alternate features are optional, and have no requisites for entry.

Type 1 and 3 are the "cheese stuff" and can be used to make good combos.

The benefits from type 2 are less evident (mostly for role-playing purposes, like this), but can be equally useful.
Example:
Lets imagine that the bard we used to explain type 2 fights a evil sorcerer. The sorcerer see the bard and, wrongly, he supposes that he faces a ranger, so he decides to use spells with will save, believing than that is is weak save.

In any case, is an interesting option for:

    * Qualify for some PrC at early levels
    * Qualify for some feats
    * Improve class features beyond the standard possibilities
    * Make your own multiclass character, but removing weak class features. (for example, the previous swift hunter doest have a weak animal companion, or weak spells.)
    * Create iconic characters (like Aragorn, Robin Hood, Drizzt D'Urden, etc) from a different approach
    * Make extremely cool characters. :D


Ghost levels theoryIn resume, if we fill the requisites, we can pick some feats that allow us to stack levels from 2 different classes to gain or improve some features.
But if we fool the requisites, If we doesn't have any levels in one of the "supposedly required" class... we will gain a effective level 0 in that class. Since levels in both classes stacks... we gain a class feature, that works as if our base class levels were levels in the other class. We are gaining "ghostly levels" in the second class.

Example:
Supposing that the previous character was a Paladin 15, then he has the same unarmed damage die as a Monk 15. He has 15 "ghostly" monk levels, for unarmed damage die purpose.


Handbook notes:

    * Note 1:
      To save space, I'm not going to write every possible combination. I'm goint to add each class to his closest concept. If you are searching for a particular feature, also check other classes with that feature.
      For example: Both druids and rangers have wild empathy. Both clerics and paladin have an alignment aura. If you wants to get wild empathy or alignment aura, please check both Pseudodruids and PseudoRangers or Pseudoclerics and PseudoPaladins

      I know that this way is not the optimal, but I there's a lot of possibilities, and add every combination would be too much work and, even if I'll try it, I can't assure that I would not miss some of them. Sorry

    * Note 2:
      This tread focus his attention into
          o Level dependant class features and ways to improve them. (Without picking levels in the class that gives that feature... otherwise is cheating )
          o Builds (including class levels, races, magic items, etc) that can be used as another entirely different class.

      I'm not covering PrC in this guide. The PrC list is huge, and it would be a very hard work (but if anyone want's to make a "Pseudo Prestige Class handbook", he has my aprobation )
      Also, for those who only want to pick some X feature that is not level dependant, I suggest to check first the Surreal List of stuff. It would be easier.


Pseudoclasses List:

PseudoBarbarian
[spoiler]Barbarians

    * Type 1
          o Druid
            Suggested changes:
            UA: lose animal companion, spontaneous casting - Gain rage
            More optional changes:
            Comments:
            A strange variant. you can't cast spells while raging, but can be interesting for a Master of many forms build.

          o Half-Orc Paragon
            Suggested changes:
            none
            Comments:

    * Type 2
    o
    * Type 3
          o Races with Rage
[/spoiler]


PseudoBards
[spoiler]Bards

    * Type 1
    * Type 2
      These classes fill the same roles as bards: fighting, support, and (optional) party faceman. Some of them have auras that can mimic the bardic music effects, and are capable of heal some amount of damage.
          o Dragon Shaman
            Suggested changes:
            None
            More optional changes:
            None
            Comments:

          o Incarnate
            Suggested changes:
            None
            More optional changes:
            None
            Comments:

          o Marshall
            Suggested changes:
            None
            More optional changes:
            None
            Comments:

    * Type 3
o
[/spoiler]


PseudoDruids
[spoiler]Druids

    * Type 1
          o Bard
            Suggested changes:
            UA: Lose bardic knowledge, Inspire (all) - Gain animal companion, wild empathy.
            More optional changes:
            UA: Savaje bard (change spells)
            Comments:
            This class is a bad trade. It has a lower HD, less spells (the list is still limited to level 6) and lacks of any other druid features.
            But have 6 sp per level, and counts as full druid for animal companion purposes. Can be useful for multi class rangers, but I think that the druid is strictly better.

          o Totemist
            Suggested changes:
            None
            More optional changes:
            None
            Comments:
            Wild empathy is the only class feature in common, but otherwise, they fill the same niche.

    * Type 2
    * Type 3
o[/spoiler]


PseudoFighters
[spoiler]Fighters

    * Type 1
          o Rogue
            Suggested changes:
            UA: lose SA - Gain bonus feats.
            More optional changes:
            Comments:
            This class is the skilled version of the fighter. It has average BAB, but can be useful for dipping.

          o Psychic Warrior
            Suggested changes:
            None
            Comments:
            It's a pity that this class can't take weapon specialization.

          o Warblade
            Suggested changes:
            None
            Comments:
            This class can get fighter exclusive feats, but is treated as a fighter 2 levels lower.

    * Type 2
    o
    * Type 3
o[/spoiler]


PseudoHexblades
Hexblades
[spoiler]
    * Type 1
    * Type 2
          o Ranger
            Suggested changes:
            CityScape WE: lose animal companion - Gain familiar
            More optional changes:
            Comments:
            Both have full BAB, both cast a small amout of spells, both have a "familiar"
            Nothing else in comon. But I think that they must be a good challenge for each other.
    * Type 3
o[/spoiler]


PseudoPaladin
Paladin

[spoiler]    * Type 1
          o Cleric
            Suggested changes:
            UA: lose turn undead - Gain Smite evil
            More optional changes:            Comments:
            A full spellcasting paladin. The pool of healing is a bad substitute for lay on hands, but can mimic it (although is not necessary at all... cleric can heal spontaneously)

          o Soulborn
            Suggested changes:
            None
            More optional changes:
            None
            Comments:
            The incarnum auras are much like the aura of good, and they also have a smite ability. In fact, Soulborns can mimic all the paladin variants from UA.

    * Type 2
          o Dragon Shaman
            Suggested changes:
            None
            Comments:
            Touch of vitality is almost the same as lay on hands. I don't know why they have different names. Also, both paladin and DS have a aura effect.

    * Type 3
          o Races with Smite evil
            Celestial template (MM)
            Half celestial template (MM)
            Killoren (RotW)[/spoiler]


PseudoRangers
Rangers

[spoiler]Rangers are a strange mix of rogue, druid and figther. Some player wants to enhace some aspect of the class, dipping here or there.

    * Type 1
          o Barbarian
            Suggested changes:
            UA: Lose rage - Gain F.E. and combat style (bow)
            Dungeoscape: Lose trapsense - Gain Trapkiller
            More optional changes:
            C. Champion: Lose fast movement - Gain Pounce
            Comments: We all know that 2 weapon fighting is a sub-optimal route. Is better a 2 handed weapon. In that case, go for barbarian. It can be used to scout and find traps with the survival skill, and is very strong (d12 hd and DR)

            This class can use a bow and a 2 handed weapon (with power attack stuff)
            for Swift hunters, the move bonus can be interesting, but if not, take the CC alternate feature. Why to dip in barbarian for pounce, if you can make it your base class?
            Have you ever wanted a spell-less, companion-less ranger? Pick a barbarian.

          o Druid
            Suggested changes:
            UA: Lose wildshape - Gain Wis to AC, Fast movement, F.E, track and swift tracker.
            More optional changes:
            UA: Lose animal companion, penalty to wild empathy, spontaneus casting - Gain Rage, tireless rage, fast movement,
            Comments: Do you want a full spellcaster ranger? this class is for you.
            This Pseudoranger is very nice to enter Harper Paragon PrC (to get F.E. Evil, and full spellcasting.)
            If you want more martial power, you can trade your companion for the rage ability. But note that you can not cast spells while rage, so may be not so good for you.

          o Paladin
            Suggested changes:
            UA: Lose lay on hands, turn undead - Gain F.E.
            More optional changes:
            U.A: Paladin of freedom
            Comments: Awesome class. Try to get F.E. evil, and "smite them all".
            The paladin of freedom variant is suggested to add more ranger flavour, but there aren't other kind of reasons to get it.

    * Type 2
          o Hexblade
            Suggested changes:
            PHB II: Lose familiar - Gain a spectral panther
            More optional changes:
            Comments: This is not exactly a ranger (I think that is the antithesis of him), but can be a good nemesis for the party ranger.
            If you are a "twins-scimitar-drow" player, take a look at this class. It comes with a panther.

          o Rogue
            Suggested changes:
            UA: Replace skills with nature oriented skills, gain HipS, camouflage.
            More optional changes:
            UA: lose SA - Gain bonus feats.
            Comments:
            Do you want a 2 weapon killing machine, but with nature flavour? Pick a rogue.
            Also, from time to time, any character needs more skill points and feats. If you want both, dip here, and gain 8+int sp and bonus feats. Also, this class can take weapon specialisation... hmmm.

          o Swashbuckler
            Suggested changes:
            PHBII: Lose doge bonuses - Gain shield bonuses while fighting with 2 weapons.
            More optional changes:
            Comments:
            A nice class for dipping if you want a 2 weapon warrior.
    * Type 3
o[/spoiler]


PseudoRogues
Rogues

[spoiler]    * Type 1
          o Fighter
            Suggested changes:
            UA: lose bonus feats - Gain SA
            More optional changes:
            Drow underdark: lose heavy armour and tower shield competence - Gain bonus to initiative, and Dex to damage.
            Comments:
            The perfect 2 weapon killing machine. Great for dipping. If you want that class as your main class and you want to do something with your skill points, get Able learner and Nymph kiss feats.

          o Psychic Rogue
            Suggested changes:
            None
            Comments:
            Little to say. This class is a rogue with psionic powers.
          o Swordsage
            Suggested changes:
            none
            More optional changes:
            none
            Comments:
            A skilled warrior, with lots of resources. Even if is not a trapfinder, you can get some of the rogue damage output by picking Shadow blade feat to add Dex to damage, and the assassin stance. You will net a nice +2d6 + dex to damage.
    * Type 2
    o
    * Type 3
          o Races with sneak attack
            Marrulurk (Savage Species)
            Greenspawn Sneak (MM IV)[/spoiler]



Special mention
Any class
[spoiler]
    * Incarnum users
      Comments:
      Due to huge amount of soulmelds and the variety of effects available, those classes can mimic most class features (except maybe spellcasting... but they can mimic spells effects)
      I had added the incarnum classes to the closest core class concept, but still, they are very customizable.
    * Factotum
      Comments:
      This class can mimic nearly any other class.
    * Chameleon
      Comments:
      This PrC can mimic nearly any other class.[/spoiler]

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Pseudoclasses Handbook and the ghost levels theory
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2011, 03:56:06 AM »
Quote
You're missing a third possiblity
* You have no ranger levels, so the effective ranger level of the build is considered --, as with having no constitution score.
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AtomicKitKat

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Re: Pseudoclasses Handbook and the ghost levels theory
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2011, 01:41:58 PM »
Quote
You're missing a third possiblity
* You have no ranger levels, so the effective ranger level of the build is considered --, as with having no constitution score.

This wasn't my work. I pretty much reposted the whole thing as it was, fixing 1 or 2 typos(psicique warrior, for example).

It depends on the wording I guess. If it says something like "You add your Paladin and Monk levels together to determine your Unarmed Strike damage", then you simply add the levels of Paladin or Monk which you do have, while the levels of the other are simply treated as 0.

Ok, I just looked up the Ascetic X Feats. Ascetic Hunter has the line "If you have levels in Ranger and Monk, blah blah". That one phrase kills point of this. :bigeye Note that they don't do the same with Ascetic Knight(it just says "Your Paladin and Monk levels stack"), which would allow you to use a Paladin who burns 2 Feats(Improved Unarmed Strike+Ascetic Knight) to remain a Paladin, while still having all the Unarmed Strike damage(but not the bonus enhancements) of a Monk of his character level. Still sucky, but now he need never fear disarmament. :p Likewise, a Monk who somehow acquires Smite Evil, blah blah, bonus Smite Evil damage.

Backdooring Devoted Tracker though, is still beneficial for Supermount builds, probably. Just have to find some way to get Track/Smite Evil/Wild Empathy without being either a Paladin or a Druid(possibly by getting into some PrC that grants them), along with the ability to get both an Animal Companion(Beastmaster?)/Special Mount(Blackguard, as an example).
« Last Edit: April 02, 2011, 02:15:47 PM by AtomicKitKat »

awaken DM golem

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Re: Pseudoclasses Handbook and the ghost levels theory
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2011, 05:33:07 PM »
Sooo ...

Monk 1 / Druid 19 doesn't really count as a pseudo Monk,
even if it is superior to a (or any) normal Monk build.

Monk 1 / PsiX 19 with Tash feat, does count,
and is superior to a (or any) normal Monk build.

Marshall 1 / Ardent 8 / Commoner 11
... is better than Divine Mind 20 although you hafta C.O. it to work.
Marshall 1 covers most of the DivMind Auras, and you get them earlier.
Ardent 9 gets 7s going, which is too much for DivMind.
Ardent 10 gets D.I. going, which is a different game than DivMind  ;)

Ardent 2 / Bloodline 3 / A.I. 1 / 'nother +1 fester Psi PrC 1 / Commoner 13
... with Ph00's early entry tricks.
Gets 2 level 1s and 1 level X as Auras via Affinity field, and PsyRef switching.
Superior to the DivMind 20 Auras.

nijineko

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Re: Pseudoclasses Handbook and the ghost levels theory
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2011, 02:59:56 AM »
tashlatora makes for great ghost monk levels for the features it qualifies for stacking.
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Benly

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Re: Pseudoclasses Handbook and the ghost levels theory
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2011, 10:02:15 PM »
Marshall 1 / Ardent 8 / Commoner 11
... is better than Divine Mind 20 although you hafta C.O. it to work.
Marshall 1 covers most of the DivMind Auras, and you get them earlier.
Ardent 9 gets 7s going, which is too much for DivMind.
Ardent 10 gets D.I. going, which is a different game than DivMind  ;)

While this build is almost certainly stronger than a Divine Mind, I feel the need to point out that Marshal 1 does not cover Divine Mind 1's auras. A divine mind 1 has four auras known (the three basic plus his mantle aura) and two of the basic auras are equivalent or superior to marshal Major Auras. A marshal 1 has one aura known, which must be a minor aura, and can't change which aura he has active short of Psychic Reformation. I would not call that "covers most of the divine mind auras".

awaken DM golem

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Re: Pseudoclasses Handbook and the ghost levels theory
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2011, 08:50:42 PM »
Umm ... I guess I see your point.
I'm not used to a defense of any part of the Divine Mind  ;).


Getting a +Cha to something via Marshall, and improvable cha,
versus getting a +1 from Divine Mind (differing improvements).
Sure the Marshall Aura abilities don't exactly mimic DivMind.

Benly

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Re: Pseudoclasses Handbook and the ghost levels theory
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2011, 09:15:24 PM »
Getting a +Cha to something via Marshall, and improvable cha,
versus getting a +1 from Divine Mind (differing improvements).
Sure the Marshall Aura abilities don't exactly mimic DivMind.

The marshal is a great dip, and an aura that grants the marshal's cha to all allies' initiative is a fantastic deal for a one-level investment. On the other hand, the divine mind you're setting it against can give a level-scaled bonus to attack and damage, or to AC and saves, and can actually change out the aura if the one he's granting isn't useful right now.

What this actually means is that you can't just sink those last levels into Commoner and show off as much as you were hoping to. Make them marshal levels and you'll be okay - the major auras still won't be quite as good as a Divine Mind 20's, but they'll be close enough that there's a fair comparison, and the minor auras and Grant Move Action should make up for it.