Elminster and Epic Level Fighters

[Solo]

[oslecamo]

Just like I pointed out in that other big discussion.

If you one-shot an ecounter with a single spell, then sorry, you didn't expend 25% of your daily resources, and it doesn't matter what the monster stat block says, you aren't geting much experience for killing it.

[Solo]

I'm glad you're joining in the spirit of the day.

[Eldariel]

I think he is serious.

[oslecamo]

As serious as the people who worked so hard to properly stat up those important NPCs.

[Solo]

I think he is serious.

Eldariel, it's April First here in America. I don't know how you do things in Finland, but we have a cultural idiosyncrasy here that manifests itself in pulling practical jokes on people on this very special day.

You don't seriously think a man as wise and intelligent as Oscalemo would seriously believe in the crap proposed in the first post, do you? It would mean that if a first level Fighter fought two CR 1/2 orcs and hit one, killed it, then cleaved into the other (entirely possible if you've got high strength and weapon focus) he'd receive less XP for the victory than a less well build fighter who nearly dies in the attempt. Or, a wizard who casts Sleep and disables a small raiding party of bandits gets less XP than a mage who takes a dagger and starts stabbing the enemy left and right.

You'd be rewarding mediocrity and punishing competence with such a system, as well as penalizing the players for the failings of the DM.

Only a complete and utter tool would think that way, and we know Oscalemo is far from that.

For the Emperor.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

Or, a wizard who casts Sleep and disables a small raiding party of bandits gets less XP than a mage who takes a dagger and starts stabbing the enemy left and right.

Oh, definitely you would.  As a GM I'm fully in favor of giving you more XP towards your next level of fighter.

[AleksanderTheGreat]

Only a complete and utter tool would think that way, and we know Oscalemo is far from that.

I'm a tool then, because I would give the weaker PC (that who nearly died) some bonus for overcoming the challenge despite weakness.

[Solo]

Do you draw the line at nearly dying because of being in combat and fighting well and nearly dying because of sheer stupidity?

[veekie]

Do you draw the line at nearly dying because of being in combat and fighting well and nearly dying because of sheer stupidity?

Draw the line at a weak build. Decisions made in play stay in play.

[AleksanderTheGreat]

Do you draw the line at nearly dying because of being in combat and fighting well and nearly dying because of sheer stupidity?

Of course I would not reward outright stupidity, although if the "stupid" decision/action would be a remification of RPing and not just dicking around, then I would give a reward.

[b100d_arrowz]

Of course if one reads the books on Elminster there are reasons those levels of fighter exist  Very dumb for optimizing purposes, but he wasn't always the most powerful wizard that ever existed.

[b100d_arrowz]

Do you draw the line at nearly dying because of being in combat and fighting well and nearly dying because of sheer stupidity?

Whenever I DM I tend to hold off on rewarding exp right away and assign it at certain points each session, so that each player has multiple opportunities to do something that advances their character, as half my current party is of the complete non optimizer crowd.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

Of course if one reads the books on Elminster there are reasons those levels of fighter exist  Very dumb for optimizing purposes, but he wasn't always the most powerful wizard that ever existed.

And it's not like dudes in-character really know exactly how they're doing a character build, either.

[b100d_arrowz]

And I've managed to get plenty of exp from what were initially thought of as stupid decisions. Like when my level 3 ranger mouthed off to the gestalt fighter/sorcerer NPC general and got telekinesised out of the bar via the room. Surviving at 3 I escaped while the remainder of the party was thrown in the brig. A daring prison break in which only one of the captured fools did anything netted me around 1.5x the exp as everyone else.

[b100d_arrowz]

Of course if one reads the books on Elminster there are reasons those levels of fighter exist  Very dumb for optimizing purposes, but he wasn't always the most powerful wizard that ever existed.

And it's not like dudes in-character really know exactly how they're doing a character build, either.

Very true, taken as actual characters most of them are just trying to survive in a time of fantastical warfare. And a much better question then ELminster having levels of fighter is why does Cyric the deity have 3 levels of fighter

[Solo]

Please stop double posting and learn to use the edit button for your subsequent bright ideas.

[veekie]

Of course if one reads the books on Elminster there are reasons those levels of fighter exist  Very dumb for optimizing purposes, but he wasn't always the most powerful wizard that ever existed.

And it's not like dudes in-character really know exactly how they're doing a character build, either.

Yeah, it does make some kind of sense to award XP based on how the character is built.

[Sinfire Titan]

In all honesty, I've been toying around with XP rewards, and I've come up with a rather unusual idea of rewarding the PCs based on the party's ECL, not the encounter's CR.

Haven't exactly figured out how to calculate that though (aside from the standard 13.33 Encounters=1 Level).




But you're right about the NPCs having horrible stats. The Spell lists of the dragons in the Draconomicon are just plain terrible.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

Of course if one reads the books on Elminster there are reasons those levels of fighter exist  Very dumb for optimizing purposes, but he wasn't always the most powerful wizard that ever existed.

And it's not like dudes in-character really know exactly how they're doing a character build, either.

Yeah, it does make some kind of sense to award XP based on how the character is built.

IIRC, there's already precedent with a few of the variable-LA templates.  If your ability scores suck too much to use the granted SLAs, you pay a lower LA for them.