Author Topic: Zeroficers - A guide to making Tier 0 Artificers  (Read 5960 times)

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KellKheraptis

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Re: Zeroficers - A guide to making Tier 0 Artificers
« Reply #20 on: March 31, 2011, 09:36:23 PM »
I think I might argue against Tier 0 existing....

The main distinction I make between Tiers 1 and 0 (or -100 where some of them belong) is use of power and access to capabilities rending one untouchable.  Any Wizard 20 can go Pun-pun.  Statistical fact.  Will he?  Only if the party needs a hero, or at least that's how I run it.  The Tier 0's have the true capability to become deux ex machina, complete with DvR if they want it, and go Raistlin on the pantheon should they grow tired of divine meddling.  And it's not just Wizards/StP's/Psy Arties etc, an Ardent 10 can stalemate Pun-pun and Azriel both, due to infinite actions both forward and backward in time, as a single example.  Build the right combo on a Psi-Arty, he can do it too.  Same with the right build of Wizard, and even easier as an Erudite (though the SCM can arguably ass pull all of these tricks, thanks to Shadow Miracles being THAT BAD ASS).
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Tshern

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Re: Zeroficers - A guide to making Tier 0 Artificers
« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2011, 02:27:57 PM »
The ability to acquire ultimate power is hardly the measure used to judge whether or not a character is Tier 0.

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borg286

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Re: Zeroficers - A guide to making Tier 0 Artificers
« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2011, 12:43:09 PM »
We all go through different stages of optimization.  We all probably started with a ranger and thought that it was better than a fighter, then we saw the damage potential of a rogue, ...Warlocks...Swordsages...Warblades...Multiclass madness, VOP monk/druid...  I just happened to be on the artificer stage and was astounded at the progression rate he had compared with the other classes, but was blinded at the cost prohibitiveness of spamming scrolls and flushing your money down the drain with consumable power.  There's something to be said about his versatility and the speed with which he can acquire that versatility, but his day-to-day endurance is lacking. 
Currently I've returned to the wizard and see that the 2 are complementary.

I will be renaming my handbook to something else.  General artificer / versatficer / buff-blastificer  can't decide.  My handbook is more of a "Here's a great base that accomplishes most of the artificer stereotypes while still maintaining tier 1 instead of sacrificing your resources to become BST/GC/fop"

BeholderSlayer

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Re: Zeroficers - A guide to making Tier 0 Artificers
« Reply #23 on: April 03, 2011, 12:50:16 PM »
The ability to acquire ultimate power is hardly the measure used to judge whether or not a character is Tier 0.
I thought everybody knew commoners were tier 0.  :p :D
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awaken DM golem

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Re: Zeroficers - A guide to making Tier 0 Artificers
« Reply #24 on: April 03, 2011, 04:54:12 PM »
Well a minor dust-up is always fun ...  :D ;)



Any T.O. trick has to be considered in isolation (imho).
Any class can achieve almost any T.O. trick, given enough time, levels or Knowledge checks.

That said, a Divine Mind 1 can probably pull the Pazuzu trick almost like a Paladin.
(without bringing up ...  :smirk )