Author Topic: metamorphasis  (Read 3435 times)

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saethone

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metamorphasis
« on: March 24, 2011, 06:38:37 AM »
is there a good guide out there for suggested forms for metamorphosis (for both the psion and the psicrystal)

i checked the psion compendium by carnivore and didnt see one in there.

its going to be for a 15th level manifester if that matters.


muchos gracias

Psithief

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Re: metamorphasis
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2011, 07:08:39 AM »
The EVEN MORE Complete Polymorph Thread 3.5

Here you go. This is the best reference we have so far.

I will add a post to the end asking about construct forms, as your psicrystal could turn into one.

Personally I like turning my psicrystal into an animated object. Limits on form? Nope, just size. Large, it can probably fly you around, Huge could perhaps manage to fly your entire party!

Edit: For your psicrystal, one obvious option is to turn it into an Astral Construct.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2011, 07:44:25 AM by Psithief »

X-Codes

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Re: metamorphasis
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2011, 07:28:01 AM »
That thread doesn't have anything on the supernatural abilities you could potentially gain...

That said, there are probably too many nifty supernatural abilities to list...

As such, consider the stuff listed there to be a baseline.  It might still be worthwhile to scan through the monster manuals and such if you're looking for nifty stuff to use with Metamorphic Transfer.

Mixster

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Re: metamorphasis
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2011, 08:29:59 AM »
How can metamorphosis grant SU abilities?
Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

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Shiki

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Re: metamorphasis
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2011, 08:35:49 AM »
How can metamorphosis grant SU abilities?

Metamorphic Transfer lets you use Su abilities of what you transform in 3/day.
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Mixster

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Re: metamorphasis
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2011, 08:56:08 AM »
How is that different from Assume supernatural ability?
Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

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Shiki

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Re: metamorphasis
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2011, 09:31:39 AM »
^There's notable differences between the two:

Assume Supernatural Ability, Savage Species p.30:
[spoiler]Assume Supernatural Ability [General]
You learn to use a supernatural ability of an assumed form.
Prerequisite: Wis 13, ability to assume a new form magically.
Benefit: You learn to use a single supernatural ability of another kind of creature while assuming its form through a polymorph self spell or a similar effect. The saving throw DC against this ability is based on your ability scores, not those of a standard creature of the kind whose form you've assumed. For a breath weapon, the saving throw DC is 10 + your Constitution modifier + 1/2 your Hit Dice (rounded down). For all other supernatural abilities, the saving throw (if any) DC is 10 + your Charisma modifier + 1/2 your Hit Dice (rounded down).
If a creature, such as an undead, has no Constitution score, use its Charisma modifier or its Constitution modifier (+0 for a nonability), whichever is higher, to determine the save DC.
Using this alien ability is disorienting. You take a -2 penalty on all attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks. Additionally, in a stressful or demanding situation (such as combat), you must succeed on a Will save (DC 19) or be unable to use the ability.
Normal: Without this feat, you cannot use the supernatural abilities of a creature whose form you assume.
Special: You can take this feat multiple times. You cannot apply it more than once to the same special ability in order to improve the Will save DC. Each time you take this feat, it applies to a different special ability.
[/spoiler]

Metamorphic Transfer, Expanded Psionics Handbook p.48:
[spoiler]Metamorphic Transfer [Psionic]
You can gain a supernatural ability of a metamorphed form.
Prerequisite: Wis 13, manifester level 5th.
Benefit: Each time you change your form, such as through the metamorphosisNormal: You cannot use the supernatural abilities of creatures whose form you assume.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Each time, you can gain one additional supernatural ability.
[/spoiler]
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Mixster

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Re: metamorphasis
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2011, 09:33:26 AM »
Yeah, I forgot the one that it's hard to use the Assume Supernatural Ability in combat.

Metamorphic transfer is actually pretty good.
Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

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Lycanthromancer

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Re: metamorphasis
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2011, 02:41:42 PM »
Metamorphosis explicitly disallows the use of anything made from ectoplasm.

As far as Assume Supernatural Ability vs Metamorphic Transfer goes? ASA allows you infinite use of a single supernatural ability for one form (up to what that creature would normally get per day), whereas MT allows you to use whatever supernatural ability from whatever form you're taking 3/day.

Generally it's easier for a psicrystal to nab ASA than MT.

Also, this is lower level, but there are some good forms here you can use. Some low-level monsters are surprisingly powerful when you can choose which one to use against which enemy, especially since you can get another one or a matching critter using your psicrystal as well.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2011, 04:14:33 PM by Lycanthromancer »
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
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My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
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[spoiler]
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Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
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shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

awaken DM golem

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Re: metamorphasis
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2011, 07:31:43 PM »
iirc - there was a very old Shapechange thread.
Not up to date, but the (su) list is obviously useful.
Wilder 12 eh?

Endarire

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Re: metamorphasis
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2011, 09:05:45 PM »
Can you take Assume Supernatural Ability: Psionic Powers?
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Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

Vicerious

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Re: metamorphasis
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2011, 09:49:16 PM »
Psionic powers are spell-like abilities, so no.
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Endarire

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Re: metamorphasis
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2011, 09:50:13 PM »
I meant Supernatural Transformation.
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

Lycanthromancer

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Re: metamorphasis
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2011, 07:12:08 PM »
I meant Supernatural Transformation.
Technically I do believe you can, since psionics are spell-likes with regards to feats.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2011, 07:14:25 PM by Lycanthromancer »
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: metamorphasis
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2011, 07:14:27 PM »
Technically I do believe you can, since psionics are spell-likes in regards to feats.
Your psionics are not innate (which means you can't do it), and technically transparency doesn't explicitly extend to feats that aren't SLA metamagics.
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Lycanthromancer

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Re: metamorphasis
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2011, 07:16:26 PM »
Technically I do believe you can, since psionics are spell-likes in regards to feats.
Your psionics are not innate (which means you can't do it), and technically transparency doesn't explicitly extend to feats that aren't SLA metamagics.
Except the XPH and SRD both explicitly state that psionics are an innate talent, regardless of where they come from.

And they're called out as explicitly psi-like abilities, and that psi-likes are explicitly the same as spell-likes, meaning anything that affects spell-likes will affect psi-likes, meaning they'll affect psionics.

The only thing that overrides this is nontransparency, and that's a houserule.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2011, 07:18:08 PM by Lycanthromancer »
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: metamorphasis
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2011, 07:20:21 PM »
Technically I do believe you can, since psionics are spell-likes in regards to feats.
Your psionics are not innate (which means you can't do it), and technically transparency doesn't explicitly extend to feats that aren't SLA metamagics.
Except the XPH and SRD both explicitly state that psionics are an innate talent, regardless of where they come from.
Um, no they don't..  There's even a clear case where they're portrayed as being different
Quote
Creatures with psionic powers generally emulate the manifesting ability of a particular psionic class. When such a creature takes levels in that same class, it can stack its innate psionic powers and its class power progression together.

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