Author Topic: Help with a cleric with a VERY limited book list?  (Read 2708 times)

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Gavinfoxx

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Help with a cleric with a VERY limited book list?
« on: March 20, 2011, 06:56:53 PM »
Hi there, I'm trying to come up with a cleric with a very, very limited book list, which DM arbitrarily set as the restriction:

PHB
PHB II
DMG
MM
EbCS
PGtE
FRCS
PGtF

And that's it.  No SRD only stuff.  Stat generation is random but a high powered method.

Furthermore, the deity list is core/greyhawk, things from deities that map DIRECTLY to greyhawk deities from other settings do so, the other stuff isn't available.

I'm thinking two options:

Worship Boccob, take Initiate of Mystra (reflavored to Initiate of Boccob), maybe go for Magic and Trickery domains, going for Divine Disciple?  Beg DM to let Spell domain also work for Boccob, maybe?

Or

Worship an ideal, going for Travel & Trickery domains, pick up the ACF from PHB II that lets me get the travel domain spontaneous option (this seems a bit simpler).

No DMM, not even DMM Quicken, so I don't really know what to spend feats on... there aren't a whole lot of good feats with these book limits, for clerics that I've found... Unless I wanna take a bunch of combat feats and go spiked chain, or something weird like that?

The group has a Druid who was running under 3.0 rules, but I'll try and get him up to 3.5, and a Ranger. And that's it.  Everyone is a newbie, including the DM, except me.... So I want to make this simple: Out of combat spellcasting, mostly, for utility and stuff, and in combat melee ass kicking in an easily understandable way.

Anyone have any ideas what to do?
« Last Edit: March 20, 2011, 07:01:20 PM by Gavinfoxx »
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geniussavant

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Re: Help with a cleric with a VERY limited book list?
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2011, 07:06:49 PM »
You could go runecaster from PGtF. It can do some interesting things, and would allow you to pull off some sudo-DMM things. I started to build a variant of the colossus of war build here, but never got around to finishing it. It used archivist, but could have easily been done with cleric to tone it done to reasonable levels.
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Echoes

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Re: Help with a cleric with a VERY limited book list?
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2011, 12:28:49 AM »
I take it no Spell Compendium then? That hurts your party buffing (recitation, righteous wrath of the faithful, superior resistance, mass conviction, mass shield of faith, mass spell resistance, etc), but leaves your core combat buffs untouched. You can still replace a fighter at level 7.

I would highly recommend grabbing the Travel domain, just for teleport access later on. The spontaneous Travel domain option is indeed very solid. If you go that route, try to pick up some cross-class ranks in UMD so you can still get some arcane spell access going.

If you don't go that route, Hathran is in the PGtF and is ridiculously powerful. You could also attempt to get into Incantatrix via anyspell abuse, but that could very well get a DMG thrown at you.

Even without Hathran, consider Leadership to pick up an arcane caster. A bard wouldn't be terrible either.

If you go the Travel + Trickery domain route (which honestly seems the most balanced overall), look for feats to enhance spellcasting. You could do worse than SF (Conj) -> Thaumaturgist, even with a Druid around. Generally, the druid summons pack more raw punch but the SM lists give better SLA access. Can you access monsters outside of the allowed books for summoning?

On the utility front, you have divination at level 7, which when used properly can be the most powerful divination spell in the game. With Travel + Trickery and your base spell list, you shouldn't be hurting for good utility options at pretty much any level.

Honestly, I feel kind of sorry for the Ranger. A Cleric and Druid make a formidable pair. A Rogue would be able to hold his own there and remain competitive, but a ranger really doesn't bring anything to the table that you guys don't already have covered in spades.
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Widow

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Re: Help with a cleric with a VERY limited book list?
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2011, 02:18:15 AM »
Hmm, a few suggestions on your book access.  Depends on if the DM is using everything in those books and how things are converted to Greyhawk.

1) If you are playing a cleric, I would go for the lesser Asimar on page 191 in the Players Guide to Faeurin.  You loss out on the human bonus feat in exchange for +2 Wisdom and Charisma.  Not a bad choice if you have feats to burn.

2) Persistent Spell may not be out, just not always available.  Page 247 of the Forgotten Realms campaign setting states that clerics of mystra may apply one metamagic for free to spells they cast while on church grounds.  If you do successfuly play the Mystra/Boccob type cleric, hopefully you could use that.  Again it might not work on long trips, or without spending some teleports.

3) Again if you have feats to burn, take a regional feat.  Mercantile background if pretty cool.  Hell if you are worried about the ranger, have him take it.  Party roll outside of combat is the Fence, which may in the long run be more important that combat.  Along the same theme, item creation with magic artisian would be another route for your cleric to take.

4) I don't wish to derail your build, but an arcane caster would be very tempting in this system.  The incantrix is still on the table, along with arcane thesis.  A decent combo in any game, maybe more so in your limited set.

For the ranger i would suggest a Warforged and go with the Warforged juggernaut if not for that pesky Heavy armor problem.

Gavinfoxx

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Re: Help with a cleric with a VERY limited book list?
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2011, 03:43:29 PM »
So If I go Lesser Aasimar Cleric of Travel and Trickery AND I am intentionally ignoring in-combat summoning (to make things simple), AND I'm ignoring crafting (again, to keep things simple), what feats do I go for?

Extend Spell? Power Attack?

Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Spiked Chain?

Extra turning with some of the PHB II Divine Feats?
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Re: Help with a cleric with a VERY limited book list?
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2011, 04:00:29 PM »
Extend Spell + Greater Magic Weapon/Greater Magic Armour is possibly your best all day party buff.

You should decide whether you want to be a sneaky, an archer or a melee cleric. But since Zen Archery is out, it is possibly either sneaky or melee that's the option. Whatever you do, take feats to support that.

With spiked chain you also need improved trip, so it really depends on the amount of available feats.

Extend spell is always golden for a buffer.
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Gavinfoxx

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Re: Help with a cleric with a VERY limited book list?
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2011, 04:09:56 PM »
Which of the PHB II Divine feats do you think are worth it? The Cleric Handbook doesn't mention *anything* from PHB II.
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Gavinfoxx

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Re: Help with a cleric with a VERY limited book list?
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2011, 06:08:43 AM »
Hello again... game's Fairly soon.  Anyone have any comments about my recent post?
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Echoes

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Re: Help with a cleric with a VERY limited book list?
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2011, 03:50:39 AM »
It depends on your stats. If you have the strength, Power Attack is a solid idea. Honestly though, I'd focus on the spellcasting/utility side. Definitely grab Extend Spell, and Quicken is solid later on. Twin isn't bad either.

Beyond that, if Leadership is available I'd definitely consider it. Otherwise, just boost your spellcasting wherever you can. If you wind up blasting a lot, (Greater) Spell Focus might be nice.

The Divine feats in PHBII mostly suck. If you find yourself healing a lot for some reason, Sacred Healing is only mediocre. It will at least make your default cure spells not suck quite as bad (they'll still suck).
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Re: Help with a cleric with a VERY limited book list?
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2011, 07:35:57 PM »
Hi there, I'm trying to come up with a cleric with a very, very limited book list, which DM arbitrarily set as the restriction:

PHB
PHB II
DMG
MM
EbCS
PGtE
FRCS
PGtF

And that's it.  No SRD only stuff.  
Furthermore, the deity list is core/greyhawk,

If you're ditching the PHB ... I don't think there's a guide for that.
But expanding spell lists; there is a guide for that.
If you're not ditching the PHB ... the Cleric guide is still very relevant.

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Re: Help with a cleric with a VERY limited book list?
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2011, 07:39:43 PM »
Hi there, I'm trying to come up with a cleric with a very, very limited book list, which DM arbitrarily set as the restriction:

PHB
PHB II
DMG
MM
EbCS
PGtE
FRCS
PGtF

And that's it.  No SRD only stuff. 
Furthermore, the deity list is core/greyhawk,

If you're ditching the PHB ... I don't think there's a guide for that.
But expanding spell lists; there is a guide for that.
If you're not ditching the PHB ... the Cleric guide is still very relevant.

He meant no SRD-only stuff. The Core Three are okay.
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Re: Help with a cleric with a VERY limited book list?
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2011, 07:44:53 PM »
Oh sorry ... the old aDMg D&D translator to Real Life and back (via "google") ... has a few bugs.