Author Topic: War Weaver Transmuter - How can I make my party glorious?  (Read 7032 times)

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Endarire

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War Weaver Transmuter - How can I make my party glorious?
« on: March 14, 2011, 06:32:00 AM »
Intro
I've read The Handbook.

I want to make my party glorious while still being able to be offensively useful pre-polymorph.

Here's the situation:  32 point buy, starting at ECL1.  Party mates are uncertain.  All 3.5 material is OK pending DM approval.  No Reserves of Strength feat, no Leadership, no (nearly) infinite loops.

Sample Build
Dragonborn Strongheart Halfling Transmuter3/War Weaver5/Incantatrix4/Spellguard of Silverymoon5/Incantatrix+3
6 STR, 16 DEX, 14 CON, 18 INT, 12 WIS, 8 CHA

1: {Aggressive}, {Spellgifted: Transmutation}
1: {Murky-Eyed}, {Noncombatant}
1: [Familiar: Hummingbird], [Improved Initiative], [Opposed Schools: Enchantment, Necromancy]
1: Enlarge Spell, Practiced Spellcaster: Wizard, Sanctum Spell, Spell Focus: Transmutation
3: Fiery Burst (because I want offense), [Otyugh Hole]
4: [Eldritch Tapestry]
5: [Queued Weaving: 2 Spells]
6: Ability Enhancer, [Queued Weaving: 3 Spells]
7: [Queued Weaving: 4 Spells]
8: [Enlarged Tapestry], [Queued Weaving: 5 Spells]
9: Extend Spell, [Persistent Spell], [Wave Bye-Bye to Illusion, but I already have the spells I want]
10: [Cooperative Metamagic!]
11: [METAMAGIC EFFECT!]
12: Combat Casting, [Chain Spell]
13: [Flavor Stuff]
14: #METAMAGIC FEAT#
15: [Selective Spell], -=FEAT=-
16: [Spellguard: Some Personal spells become Touch. +AC/+Saves/+Temp HP/+Real HP], #METAMAGIC FEAT#
17: [Spell Power]
18: [Metamagic Spell Trigger - Probably unimportant], -=FEAT=-
19: [Seize Concentration]
20: [Instant Metamagic 1/day], #METAMAGIC FEAT#

NOTE: Dragonborn keeps a racial bonus feat if that feat is a prereq.  My stuff works.  Even without Dragonbornhood, this build works.

#METAMAGIC FEAT POOL#
-Chain Spell
-Easy Metamagic
-Quicken Spell

-=FEAT POOL=-
-Greater Spell Focus: Transmutation
-Metamagic School Focus: Transmutation
« Last Edit: March 14, 2011, 10:14:27 PM by Endarire »
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

Echoes

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Re: War Weaver Transmuter - How can I make my party glorious?
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2011, 10:16:01 AM »
Quote from: Races of the Dragon, pg. 10
If your original race granted you a nonspecific bonus feat (such as the one gained by a human at 1st level), any feat can be lost, so long as it is not a prerequisite for another feat you have.

You still lose a feat, you just have to give up one that isn't a prereq. for a feat you already have.

You can hold off doing the Rite of Rebirth until later so that you can burn a higher-level feat slot (thus preserving early-entry tricks), but you will [edit]almost[/edit] always lost a feat if you got one as a racial bonus.

Edit: see CantripN's post.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2011, 11:54:36 AM by Echoes »
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You'll see the party and only be able to respond, "Oh yeah baby."
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CantripN

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Re: War Weaver Transmuter - How can I make my party glorious?
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2011, 11:19:05 AM »
Unless they are all prerequisites at the point you become Dragonborn...
Read, every day, something no one else is reading. Think, every day, something no one else is thinking. Do, every day, something no one else would be silly enough to do. It is bad for the mind to be always part of unanimity.

Rebel7284

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Re: War Weaver Transmuter - How can I make my party glorious?
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2011, 11:27:12 AM »
Unless they are all prerequisites at the point you become Dragonborn...

How would you do this?  I don't know any feat chain that is circular....
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CantripN

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Re: War Weaver Transmuter - How can I make my party glorious?
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2011, 11:43:36 AM »
Doesn't take all that much. Take several PrCs and voila!
Read, every day, something no one else is reading. Think, every day, something no one else is thinking. Do, every day, something no one else would be silly enough to do. It is bad for the mind to be always part of unanimity.

sir_argenon

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Re: War Weaver Transmuter - How can I make my party glorious?
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2011, 12:07:03 PM »
Quote from: Races of the Dragon, pg. 10
If your original race granted you a nonspecific bonus feat (such as the one gained by a human at 1st level), any feat can be lost, so long as it is not a prerequisite for another feat you have.

You still lose a feat, you just have to give up one that isn't a prereq. for a feat you already have.

You can hold off doing the Rite of Rebirth until later so that you can burn a higher-level feat slot (thus preserving early-entry tricks), but you will [edit]almost[/edit] always lost a feat if you got one as a racial bonus.

Edit: see CantripN's post.

i disagree with that reading completely.   to me, its clearly referring to the bonus feat itself, and only the bonus feat.  

i take that sentence to mean "any bonus feat can be lost no matter what it is, unless it is a prereq for another feat that you have"

i would agree with your reading if the text said something like "any other feat can be lost...."
« Last Edit: March 14, 2011, 12:21:37 PM by sir_argenon »

Echoes

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Re: War Weaver Transmuter - How can I make my party glorious?
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2011, 01:19:47 PM »
Quote from: Races of the Dragon, pg. 10
If your original race granted you a nonspecific bonus feat (such as the one gained by a human at 1st level), any feat can be lost, so long as it is not a prerequisite for another feat you have.

You still lose a feat, you just have to give up one that isn't a prereq. for a feat you already have.

You can hold off doing the Rite of Rebirth until later so that you can burn a higher-level feat slot (thus preserving early-entry tricks), but you will [edit]almost[/edit] always lost a feat if you got one as a racial bonus.

Edit: see CantripN's post.

i disagree with that reading completely.   to me, its clearly referring to the bonus feat itself, and only the bonus feat.  

i take that sentence to mean "any bonus feat can be lost no matter what it is, unless it is a prereq for another feat that you have"

i would agree with your reading if the text said something like "any other feat can be lost...."

"Any feat" is inclusive. It doesn't have to say "any other feat" because "any feat" already means any of your feats.
BrokeAndDrive speaks the Truth (linked for great justice and signature limits)

Quotes I Found Entertaining:

Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

As a general rule, murdering people and taking their stuff is pretty much superior to breaking their stuff, murdering them, then not having any stuff to take.

Out of Context Theater
[spoiler]
Oh I'll make a party. I'll make a party so hard... I'll make a party that makes you feel so awkward downstairs.

You'll see the party and only be able to respond, "Oh yeah baby."
[/spoiler]

Iskajir

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Re: War Weaver Transmuter - How can I make my party glorious?
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2011, 02:04:08 PM »
Endarire- It's a pretty solid build. I use something similar in my Wednesday game. Party composition matters a lot when you choose your buffs, but some nice options for low levels:
-Enlarge/Reduce Person can be affected by Ability Enhancer
-Ability-Enhanced Animalistic Power, and later Bite of <X> spells.
-Haste is a perennial favorite, also Nerveskitter
-Jaws of the Moray for melee types. Another extra attack, at -5, plus a weird Improved Grab ability.
-Heroics is useful, situationally.
-Stand and Feather Fall are handy if you can spare a spell slot.

You'll probably want to retrain Fiery Burst at mid-levels, once everything is resistant to fire. Metamagic School Focus might be a good choice, or Toughening Transmutation if the party can get better DR than x/magic to stack it on.

Sohala

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Re: War Weaver Transmuter - How can I make my party glorious?
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2011, 02:31:40 PM »
Depending on how your DM rules it, you could advance war weaver, to be able to cast higher level spells, with legacy champion. Probably don't have the class slots for it though...
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Bester

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Re: War Weaver Transmuter - How can I make my party glorious?
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2011, 05:44:27 PM »
-Ability-Enhanced Animalistic Power, and later Bite of <X> spells.

What's wrong with using Ability-Enhanced Augment Truefriend instead? :hide

Think of all the money you could save on material components.... :lmao  I love that section of ToM...you know the one that doesn't work.

Endarire

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Re: War Weaver Transmuter - How can I make my party glorious?
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2011, 08:54:03 PM »
Iskajir: Danke for your response.

All: What other non-Dragonborn comments have you about this build?
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

Endarire

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Re: War Weaver Transmuter - How can I make my party glorious?
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2011, 10:22:59 PM »
I revamped the build.

How important is Quicken Spell in this build?
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: War Weaver Transmuter - How can I make my party glorious?
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2011, 10:49:55 PM »
Doesn't take all that much. Take several PrCs and voila!
IIRC, somebody managed to use that to turn VoP feats into normal feats
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Lycanthromancer

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Re: War Weaver Transmuter - How can I make my party glorious?
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2011, 10:53:58 PM »
Doesn't take all that much. Take several PrCs and voila!
IIRC, somebody managed to use that to turn VoP feats into normal feats
Where is this?
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
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sir_argenon

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Re: War Weaver Transmuter - How can I make my party glorious?
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2011, 11:06:06 PM »
Doesn't take all that much. Take several PrCs and voila!
IIRC, somebody managed to use that to turn VoP feats into normal feats
Where is this?

embrace/shun dark chaos?

Lycanthromancer

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Re: War Weaver Transmuter - How can I make my party glorious?
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2011, 11:12:01 PM »
Doesn't take all that much. Take several PrCs and voila!
IIRC, somebody managed to use that to turn VoP feats into normal feats
Where is this?

embrace/shun dark chaos?
Obviously you could use that. But he meant using Dragonborn to swap out his VoP feats. I think.
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: War Weaver Transmuter - How can I make my party glorious?
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2011, 11:19:46 PM »
Doesn't take all that much. Take several PrCs and voila!
IIRC, somebody managed to use that to turn VoP feats into normal feats
Where is this?
some sort of abuse of this
Quote
If you no longer qualify for a feat due to the transformation, you lose the feat and immediately select a new feat for which you qualify in its place. You must also replace any feat for which the lost feat was a prerequisite
It involved losing sacred vow
Linguist, Mad, Unique, none of these things am I
My custom class: The Priest of the Unseen Host
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Want to improve your character?  Then die.

sir_argenon

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Re: War Weaver Transmuter - How can I make my party glorious?
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2011, 11:21:28 PM »
Doesn't take all that much. Take several PrCs and voila!
IIRC, somebody managed to use that to turn VoP feats into normal feats
Where is this?
some sort of abuse of this
Quote
If you no longer qualify for a feat due to the transformation, you lose the feat and immediately select a new feat for which you qualify in its place. You must also replace any feat for which the lost feat was a prerequisite
It involved losing sacred vow

wow.  nice one.

Lycanthromancer

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Re: War Weaver Transmuter - How can I make my party glorious?
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2011, 11:29:28 PM »
Ooooh.

[edit] But wouldn't you just replace Vow of Poverty and lose all those other feats?
« Last Edit: March 14, 2011, 11:33:49 PM by Lycanthromancer »
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

Endarire

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Re: War Weaver Transmuter - How can I make my party glorious?
« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2011, 12:09:06 AM »
How important is Persistent Spell in this?  I'm still curious about Quicken Spell, too.
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"