Don't multiclass the druid, newb!

[KellKheraptis]

Ok, yes, I know that it's near impossible to even add a PrC to a druid without it loosing power, let alone dipping into other base classes.

Question: is it worth dipping cleric 1 to get Turn/Rebuke Undead, so that one can get DMM Persistent Spell, and walk around with Undermaster running all day?

Because I haven't crunched the numbers, but at first impression that strikes me as pretty awesome.

There's a druid variant somewhere (wild reaper) that gets turn undead, along with some other stuff like fast healing and disease immunity. I think it only picks it up at 12th level, though.

12th level for Turn Undead, yeah.  Along with native Fast Healing and Fast Ability Damage Healing   DMM now with enhanced fleshraker form!

[Whisper]

Ok, yes, I know that it's near impossible to even add a PrC to a druid without it loosing power, let alone dipping into other base classes.

Question: is it worth dipping cleric 1 to get Turn/Rebuke Undead, so that one can get DMM Persistent Spell, and walk around with Undermaster running all day?

Because I haven't crunched the numbers, but at first impression that strikes me as pretty awesome.

There's a druid variant somewhere (wild reaper) that gets turn undead, along with some other stuff like fast healing and disease immunity. I think it only picks it up at 12th level, though.

12th level for Turn Undead, yeah.  Along with native Fast Healing and Fast Ability Damage Healing   DMM now with enhanced fleshraker form!

Shiny. Imagine that with persistent Undermaster... you'd barely need to use your spells.

What book is it in?

[PlzBreakMyCampaign]

not a book, dragon magazine

[X-Codes]

Do NOT underestimate MoMF.  That class is an absolute BEAST. You don't actually lose anything in the end, because you can just Wild Shape into something with casting if you need spells!

So you're saying the spellcasting is EX? Or are you using some other method?
(An honest question, last time I brought up the fact that planar shepherds get EX, SU, and SP abilities and thus, the Spellcasting of the forms, there was a huge argument that spilled into multiple threads and no consensus in the end  )

EDIT: nm I'm pretty sure the innate spellcasting is EX

Let's not open that bag of worms here.

MoMF is really tough without relying on an arguable rules interpretation to get spellcasting.  Very high Tier 3 even if you're just turning into random stuff from the PHB, and possibly Tier 2 depending on the exact build and what the DM is allowing in terms of monster source books.  If you can grab Su abilities then you've got some serious potential for abuse.

[Kajhera]

Do NOT underestimate MoMF.  That class is an absolute BEAST. You don't actually lose anything in the end, because you can just Wild Shape into something with casting if you need spells!

So you're saying the spellcasting is EX? Or are you using some other method?
(An honest question, last time I brought up the fact that planar shepherds get EX, SU, and SP abilities and thus, the Spellcasting of the forms, there was a huge argument that spilled into multiple threads and no consensus in the end  )

EDIT: nm I'm pretty sure the innate spellcasting is EX

Let's not open that bag of worms here.

MoMF is really tough without relying on an arguable rules interpretation to get spellcasting.  Very high Tier 3 even if you're just turning into random stuff from the PHB, and possibly Tier 2 depending on the exact build and what the DM is allowing in terms of monster source books.  If you can grab Su abilities then you've got some serious potential for abuse.

... Dare I ask what random stuff in the PHB grants these useful abilities?

[X-Codes]

Do NOT underestimate MoMF.  That class is an absolute BEAST. You don't actually lose anything in the end, because you can just Wild Shape into something with casting if you need spells!

So you're saying the spellcasting is EX? Or are you using some other method?
(An honest question, last time I brought up the fact that planar shepherds get EX, SU, and SP abilities and thus, the Spellcasting of the forms, there was a huge argument that spilled into multiple threads and no consensus in the end  )

EDIT: nm I'm pretty sure the innate spellcasting is EX

Let's not open that bag of worms here.

MoMF is really tough without relying on an arguable rules interpretation to get spellcasting.  Very high Tier 3 even if you're just turning into random stuff from the PHB, and possibly Tier 2 depending on the exact build and what the DM is allowing in terms of monster source books.  If you can grab Su abilities then you've got some serious potential for abuse.

... Dare I ask what random stuff in the PHB grants these useful abilities?

Depends on what you're looking for.  Trolls are available at ECL 7 and do quite a bit of damage.  Higher-level giants can do well with rock throwing.  At ECL 12 you can benefit from regeneration if your chosen form has it.

Honestly, I thought the MM had a wider variety of stuff for the MoMF to change into...  I guess in a core game, however, he's really not much better off than a Druid in terms of how well their wild shape performs.  I guess you need more splats to find interesting Ex abilities to pick up with him.  That said, I'd say he still maintains T3 status by simple virtue that you can transform into something with massive Strength and Regeneration and do very well in melee.

[Ras F]

X-Codes, perhaps you would like to roll your spot check again? 
I think the implication was: Did you really mean to say PHB earlier, and not "Core"?

[X-Codes]

X-Codes, perhaps you would like to roll your spot check again? 
I think the implication was: Did you really mean to say PHB earlier, and not "Core"?

I see. I think the implication was that Kajhera's an ass.

[Kajhera]

X-Codes, perhaps you would like to roll your spot check again?  
I think the implication was: Did you really mean to say PHB earlier, and not "Core"?

I see. I think the implication was that Kajhera's an ass.

Hey, if you can get useful abilities from sharpening your ears, I want to know.  

(Trolls are good to think about though.  )

[Zemyla]

Fochlucan Lyrist is also kinda nice
Bard 2/ Druid 3/ Green Whisperer 3/ Spelldancer 2/ Sublime Chord 1/ Fochlucan Lyrist 9
Bard 1/ Druid 4/ Green Whisperer 3/ Spelldancer 2/ Fochlucan Lyrist 10

Why spelldancer?  You can get evasion with Shape Soulmeld (impulse boots) and Open Least Chakra (feet).  It doesn't require a class, and is a lot more kosher than using a ring of evasion to qualify.

This leads us to Bard 2/Druid 3/Green Whisperer 5/Sublime Chord 1/Fochlucan Lyrist 9.

[KellKheraptis]

Fochlucan Lyrist is also kinda nice
Bard 2/ Druid 3/ Green Whisperer 3/ Spelldancer 2/ Sublime Chord 1/ Fochlucan Lyrist 9
Bard 1/ Druid 4/ Green Whisperer 3/ Spelldancer 2/ Fochlucan Lyrist 10

Why spelldancer?  You can get evasion with Shape Soulmeld (impulse boots) and Open Least Chakra (feet).  It doesn't require a class, and is a lot more kosher than using a ring of evasion to qualify.

This leads us to Bard 2/Druid 3/Green Whisperer 5/Sublime Chord 1/Fochlucan Lyrist 9.

Spelldancer also nets unlimited use metamagic

[awaken DM golem]

Now, if you ignore "Don't multiclass the druid, newb!"
you can make a rather decent core Monk via
Monk 1 / Druid 19 and Natural Spell feat.
Can take that Monk level at 2nd, 4th, or 6th.

Druids make better Monks than Monk.
 

[Lycanthromancer]

Now, if you ignore "Don't multiclass the druid, newb!"
you can make a rather decent core Monk via
Monk 1 / Druid 19 and Natural Spell feat.
Can take that Monk level at 2nd, 4th, or 6th.

Druids make better Monks than Monk.
 

Commoners make better monks than monks.

See: flurry of chickens.

[awaken DM golem]

  ... right.


Commoner 1 with the chicken thingy / Divine Mind 14 or more
... could have a whole army of regenerating chickens.
And might be buildable to a Monk+.