Author Topic: How do you feasibly DM for an optimized group of tier 1 & 2 characters?  (Read 2010 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Endarire

  • Man in Gorilla Suit
  • *****
  • Posts: 2171
    • Email
Knowing your party's capacities is #1.  Knowing the rules in general is #2.

Still, how do you build a world (or use an existing world) where the group is expected to quickly jump from "runts/commonlings" to "demigods" in a short time span?

Interparty balance isn't a big concern.  Balancing the group with the setting is.

What sorts of encounters and plots can you fairly run in such a setting?
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

LordBlades

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 524
    • Email
Knowing your party's capacities is #1.  Knowing the rules in general is #2.

Still, how do you build a world (or use an existing world) where the group is expected to quickly jump from "runts/commonlings" to "demigods" in a short time span?

Interparty balance isn't a big concern.  Balancing the group with the setting is.

What sorts of encounters and plots can you fairly run in such a setting?

In my group we consistently run optimized Tier 1&2 games, so these are a couple of things we've learned:

- You need a gentleman's agreement on how far it is acceptable to go power-wise. Going all-out(infinite loops, CoP abuse, breaking WBL etc.) will break the game, and that's not fun for anyone.

- If you want a challenging BBEG, it pretty much has to be a high level spellcaster or have acess to high level spellcasting. Otherwise the PCs will quickly gain the upper hand(both in combat and campaign-wise). In the two high-powered campaigns we've ran so far the BBEGs were a lich wizard 17 and a Great Wyrm Loredrake White Dragon Sorcerer 3 in the first, and a Beholder Mage in the 2nd.

Endarire

  • Man in Gorilla Suit
  • *****
  • Posts: 2171
    • Email
Banning contact other plane seems to do much toward campaign balance.  What say you?

What other effects need banning or great rebalancing?
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

veekie

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 9034
  • WARNING: Homing Miko
Lets see, Polymorph works, assuming you are humane about its use and not go dig up obscure forms for Ultimate Power, divinations that can answer questions about the future, planar binding(and other permanent ally effects like simulacrum).
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

Whisper

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 206
Run divination spells as plot-fiat rather than a mechanically reliable source of information.

Make challenges situational rather locale-based.

Insist that players make characters with a place in the world and priorities, rather than being rootless violent hobos with no homes, loved ones to protect, or causes to serve.

Remember the Rule of Fools. What one fool can do, another can, too. Societies and rulers, as well as villains and wealthy NPCs, will have their own high level casters and powerful magic items at their disposal. If thieves have magic, then merchants will have magical defenses. NPCs will act rather than sit about waiting for PCs to act upon them. No spell or class features will be available to PCs only.

Fight dirty. 

RelentlessImp

  • Donkey Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 653
    • Email
Insist that players make characters with a place in the world and priorities, rather than being rootless violent hobos with no homes, loved ones to protect, or causes to serve.

We'll be getting a call from the Society of Violent Hobos any minute now...

Basically: Anything the PCs can do you can do better, you can do anything better than them. Let them go nuts for a bit, then curbstomp them with the same (or similar) tactics. It's like Rocket Tag, only you have an infinite number of rockets, and they have a green rocket launcher with one in the barrel and 3 reloads.

Other than that, play Eberron. Until about level 12 or so, you have all sorts of convenient excuses as to why the party is not the most powerful group of violent hobos around.
Solo on Essentials
I prepared irresistible phantasmal killer today... as a 4th level spell.
"He hit me with a flaming garbage can...and then the god damn hobo next to it!"

Necrosnoop110

  • That monkey with the orange ass cheeks
  • ****
  • Posts: 270
    • Email
Other than that, play Eberron. Until about level 12 or so, you have all sorts of convenient excuses as to why the party is not the most powerful group of violent hobos around.
And for the uninitiated, those convenient excuses are ...?

Whisper

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 206
Insist that players make characters with a place in the world and priorities, rather than being rootless violent hobos with no homes, loved ones to protect, or causes to serve.

We'll be getting a call from the Society of Violent Hobos any minute now...

No, we won't. They're violent hobos. They don't call. They beat down your door (with a mace), and attack you while screaming incoherent obscenities.

Quote
Other than that, play Eberron. Until about level 12 or so, you have all sorts of convenient excuses as to why the party is not the most powerful group of violent hobos around.

At pretty much any level, you have a reason why the PCs are not the most powerful people around.

In a universe where numbers don't matter, and a single practiced individual can defeat armies, any society without high-level casters protecting it will be conquered within a week. Therefore, all stable societies have access to high level casters.