Author Topic: Consolidated Binder's Handbook (Repost with Formatting)  (Read 60457 times)

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TeslaWolff

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Re: [WIP] Binder's Guide: Trade Your Soul for Awesome
« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2011, 03:56:08 AM »
One thing you should definitely do is have a section on Naberius.  There are a TON of abilities out there that do really powerful things, with the balancing factor  that you take stat damage (usually con) every time you use them.  Naberius combines so well with all of these that a general listing of "stuff Naberius combos with" would make a lot of sense.  Examples include Hellfire Warlock, that funny shadow teleport ability, and a bunch of abilities in the Fiendish Codexes.

JaronK

He is referring to the ability in LoD on pg. 125, "Ritual of Shadow-Walking" which I mentioned on the Fun Finds thread.  :)
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Sobolev

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Re: [WIP] Binder's Guide: Trade Your Soul for Awesome
« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2011, 04:49:51 AM »
Any other ideas you think should be added let me know.  I started this guide because I care about Binders, and because the old formatting was bugging me.  It has nothing to do with my knowledge of the class.
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Quote from: Negative Zero on November 04, 2009, 02:16:14 AM
In my humble opinion, CO is haberdashery. Some say we're mad, but we can all agree we're hatters. Yes, we have potential to make very sophisticated hats, very fancy hats, be they dark or light. But the truth is that the color of the hat does not come from the group of us - our community doesn't directly produce hats. We simply give average head circumferences, list current fashion trends, and point out some shiny, obscure baubles to add to the latest hat line.

JaronK

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Re: [WIP] Binder's Guide: Trade Your Soul for Awesome
« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2011, 04:54:43 AM »
You should also get together a list of every random critter that can be summoned with Zceryll's Summon Monster ability, especially the ones with handy spell likes.  For example, I know one can spam out some serious healing magic, while another can be used to spam divinations.

And yes, I was refering that Ritual of Shadow Walking.

I think the single most powerful build in the game that isn't using Pun Pun-esc stuff is Binder 1/Archivist 3/Anima Mage 10/Tainted Sorcerer 1/Tenebrous Apostate 5, using the divine adaptation of Anima Mage.  Bind Naberius, Zceryll, and Tenebrous.  Take that Ritual of Shadow-Walking, along with lots of metamgic feats and the feat that lets you spend a turn undead attempt to counter a spell as an immediate action.  Enjoy your endless metamagic, nearly endless spells, insanely high spell save DCs, near unlimited access to every spell ever, and ability to spam creatures out everywhere, plus complete situational awareness.  Game broken.  And it doesn't use any loops or similar things.

JaronK

Sobolev

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Re: [WIP] Binder's Guide: Trade Your Soul for Awesome
« Reply #23 on: March 04, 2011, 05:03:36 AM »
You should also get together a list of every random critter that can be summoned with Zceryll's Summon Monster ability, especially the ones with handy spell likes.  For example, I know one can spam out some serious healing magic, while another can be used to spam divinations.

And yes, I was refering that Ritual of Shadow Walking.

I think the single most powerful build in the game that isn't using Pun Pun-esc stuff is Binder 1/Archivist 3/Anima Mage 10/Tainted Sorcerer 1/Tenebrous Apostate 5, using the divine adaptation of Anima Mage.  Bind Naberius, Zceryll, and Tenebrous.  Take that Ritual of Shadow-Walking, along with lots of metamgic feats and the feat that lets you spend a turn undead attempt to counter a spell as an immediate action.  Enjoy your endless metamagic, nearly endless spells, insanely high spell save DCs, near unlimited access to every spell ever, and ability to spam creatures out everywhere, plus complete situational awareness.  Game broken.  And it doesn't use any loops or similar things.

JaronK

If you know of any of those creatures, I'm listening, also I will include that build, probably as a direct quote of you as long as you're fine with it.
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Quote from: Negative Zero on November 04, 2009, 02:16:14 AM
In my humble opinion, CO is haberdashery. Some say we're mad, but we can all agree we're hatters. Yes, we have potential to make very sophisticated hats, very fancy hats, be they dark or light. But the truth is that the color of the hat does not come from the group of us - our community doesn't directly produce hats. We simply give average head circumferences, list current fashion trends, and point out some shiny, obscure baubles to add to the latest hat line.

JaronK

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Re: [WIP] Binder's Guide: Trade Your Soul for Awesome
« Reply #24 on: March 04, 2011, 05:08:43 AM »
Go for it.

As to the creatures, check here: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872206/Legal_3.5_Summonable_Monster_List

The thing is, actually sorting through and finding the useful effects can be difficult.

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Sobolev

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Re: [WIP] Binder's Guide: Trade Your Soul for Awesome
« Reply #25 on: March 04, 2011, 06:35:49 AM »
Go for it.

As to the creatures, check here: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872206/Legal_3.5_Summonable_Monster_List

The thing is, actually sorting through and finding the useful effects can be difficult.

JaronK

The best I've got so far is Detect Magic and Detect Evil at will, Plane Shift 1/day (which is actually 1/5 rounds).
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Quote from: Negative Zero on November 04, 2009, 02:16:14 AM
In my humble opinion, CO is haberdashery. Some say we're mad, but we can all agree we're hatters. Yes, we have potential to make very sophisticated hats, very fancy hats, be they dark or light. But the truth is that the color of the hat does not come from the group of us - our community doesn't directly produce hats. We simply give average head circumferences, list current fashion trends, and point out some shiny, obscure baubles to add to the latest hat line.

JaronK

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Re: [WIP] Binder's Guide: Trade Your Soul for Awesome
« Reply #26 on: March 04, 2011, 06:37:00 AM »
I know there's one that lets you spam divinations, and one that's AMAZING for healing.  Plane Shift is pretty freaking sweet, though.

JaronK

Sobolev

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Re: [WIP] Binder's Guide: Trade Your Soul for Awesome
« Reply #27 on: March 04, 2011, 06:37:42 AM »
I know there's one that lets you spam divinations, and one that's AMAZING for healing.  Plane Shift is pretty freaking sweet, though.

JaronK

Yeah, I've only read 1-3 so far, and I skipped most of 1 because it's full of winners like Celestial Monkey.
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Quote from: Negative Zero on November 04, 2009, 02:16:14 AM
In my humble opinion, CO is haberdashery. Some say we're mad, but we can all agree we're hatters. Yes, we have potential to make very sophisticated hats, very fancy hats, be they dark or light. But the truth is that the color of the hat does not come from the group of us - our community doesn't directly produce hats. We simply give average head circumferences, list current fashion trends, and point out some shiny, obscure baubles to add to the latest hat line.

the_shadowmind

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Re: [WIP] Binder's Guide: Trade Your Soul for Awesome
« Reply #28 on: March 04, 2011, 07:27:03 AM »
(SM IX)There is the Leonal with a 1/day Heal, a better version of the paladin lay on hands ability, a improved holy word spell 3/day(pity only have CL 10.) and a  at will Wall of Force ability.
(SM IX) The Couatl has a 1/day planeshift, and 9th level sorcerer plus cleric list(+Air,Good,Law domain) and all 4 detect alignment abilities. The pre-chosen list isn't that bad for it's CR, but not that useful at level 17.

(SM VIII) Vrock gets at will telekinesis, and a 1/hour DC 22 fort 1 round stun attac.

(SM VII)Avoral, get the up to HP version of lay on hands the Leonal does, but less HD means less HP for it to heal. It has at least an At-will Dimension door, and has a kind of weak True Seeing ability that requires concentration.
(SM VII)Djinni. It gets 1/day— create food and water, create wine, so you could feed a city with it 1 every 4 rounds. Major creations(but permanent plant matter=poisons or lumber). Wind walk for fast transportation, and Persistent Image for parties/distractions.
(Sm VII) Bone Devil(Osyluth), Has at will dimensional anchor(spam it enough and they will eventually fail the save), Major Image(Fun with illusions), and Wall of Ice. Its poison isn't that great, but isn't that bad either DC 20 1d6 Str, secondary damage 2d6 Str

(SM VI)Janni gets a daily create food and water, and like the rest of the Genies gets Plane shift

JaronK

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Re: [WIP] Binder's Guide: Trade Your Soul for Awesome
« Reply #29 on: March 04, 2011, 07:34:21 AM »
(SM VII)Djinni. It gets 1/day— create food and water, create wine, so you could feed a city with it 1 every 4 rounds. Major creations(but permanent plant matter=poisons or lumber). Wind walk for fast transportation, and Persistent Image for parties/distractions.

Note that both Black Lotus Poison and Sinmaker's Surprise are entirely plant based poison.  Soarwood, Serrenwood, and Bronzewood are all very nice plant based woods, while items made of Elven Leafweave and Elven Darkleaf are also plant based.

Also, is there anything with Fabricate?  Combining those would be fun.

JaronK

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Re: [WIP] Binder's Guide: Trade Your Soul for Awesome
« Reply #30 on: March 04, 2011, 08:07:30 AM »
Doesn't summon monster II get you a magic pony with planeshift named epona?
Alternatively, some kind of beetle with a 1/day planar breach?
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the_shadowmind

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Re: [WIP] Binder's Guide: Trade Your Soul for Awesome
« Reply #31 on: March 04, 2011, 08:48:43 AM »
(SM VII)Djinni. It gets 1/day— create food and water, create wine, so you could feed a city with it 1 every 4 rounds. Major creations(but permanent plant matter=poisons or lumber). Wind walk for fast transportation, and Persistent Image for parties/distractions.

Note that both Black Lotus Poison and Sinmaker's Surprise are entirely plant based poison.  Soarwood, Serrenwood, and Bronzewood are all very nice plant based woods, while items made of Elven Leafweave and Elven Darkleaf are also plant based.

Also, is there anything with Fabricate?  Combining those would be fun.

JaronK
Knew about Black Lotus, but not of Sinmaker, nor did I think of rare woods. Bronze wood to start construction of the Wild Wild West Steam spider.... Haven't found a summon with Fabricate yet, but I haven't looked so maybe on of the firre eladrin(Cleric) and ursinal guardinal(Wizard) BoED are casters of 12th level so they are just high enough to have Fabricate as a spell. Both at SM IX, go to Page 190 of the BoED and the bottum side bar has them listed and the other creatures that you can summon.

Ursinal guardinal as well as being a 12th level wizard has at will, Solid Fog, Dimension Door, Dispel Magic, Polymorph, and with a 3/day Heal with CL 12. They also have the superior  Lay on Hands the Leonal and Avoral, have.

Fabricate might not work anyway due to the using/making magic items clause, since the Djinni wood is a magic item with permanent duration instead of being a object created with an instantaneous spell like Stone wall is.

There is also the Moon Dog for (SM IX), same book, which has Greater Shadow Conjuration 1/day.

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Re: [WIP] Binder's Guide: Trade Your Soul for Awesome
« Reply #32 on: March 04, 2011, 03:40:36 PM »
finally!   :clap
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Cagemarrow

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Re: [WIP] Binder's Guide: Trade Your Soul for Awesome
« Reply #33 on: March 04, 2011, 07:07:23 PM »
We recently played through the Red Hand of Doom and my Binder was the only one to survive the entire game. Dhalver-Nar was indispensable for the dragon fights, with a high Bluff and Diplomacy score from Naberous to fool them into thinking that if my character died, the dragon would as well. Saved the party from a TPK at one point as they decided to take prisoners instead of simply killing us.

I'll have to write up my full list of all things Zceryll can be used for with a list of the summons I found most useful as well. I have a mostly completed list of stat blocks for all legal summon monsters with the pseudonatural template added, a list of all plant materials the Djinn can summon from the books, as well as some calculations on size and value for each casting. I'll have to complete it, but once I do I'll send it along to be posted.


Some fun additions from Naberous's Skills - choose whatever language you might need for the day with his skill option, lucid dreaming can also be fun if you can get a way to boost the skill check high enough to get a 25 reliably, use it to become Freddy Krueger to your enemies (page 203 in the Manual of the Planes) or to just communicate long distances with anyone.

A Lyre of Building, combined with wooden supplies from Zceryll can get you a 68571gp stronghold built once per week, with just 8 hours of playing. All of this done, for free. My character's bard cohort makes the perform checks for him. He's currently using this ability to rebuild Drellan's Ferry and start a stronghold of his own for the area. Eventually he'll use it to build an airship and just have to pay to have it enchanted.

If you just need weapons or armor a Djinn with its +12 Craft check can take 10 to make 1 masterwork Bronze wood item every 30 seconds for as long as you can keep summoning them.

Djinn also get Airwalk 1/day, with a Caster Level of 20, so each summon can grant 6 creatures the ability to use the spell. Our party was using it toward the end of the campaign to fly at 60mph in streams of white smoke like slow motion versions of the Death Eaters from the Harry Potter movies, takes 5 rounds to switch from smoke to solid form.

One thing I wasn't sure of, Summons can't use their teleportation or summoning Spell like abilities according to the summoning school, does that also include Plane shift if not once you get to Summon monster VII you effectively have a teleport as well, just plane shift to a benign plane (astral, celestial, ethereal), then again back to your destination on the material plane.


Sobolev

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Re: [WIP] Binder's Guide: Trade Your Soul for Awesome
« Reply #34 on: March 04, 2011, 08:01:45 PM »
We recently played through the Red Hand of Doom and my Binder was the only one to survive the entire game. Dhalver-Nar was indispensable for the dragon fights, with a high Bluff and Diplomacy score from Naberous to fool them into thinking that if my character died, the dragon would as well. Saved the party from a TPK at one point as they decided to take prisoners instead of simply killing us.

I'll have to write up my full list of all things Zceryll can be used for with a list of the summons I found most useful as well. I have a mostly completed list of stat blocks for all legal summon monsters with the pseudonatural template added, a list of all plant materials the Djinn can summon from the books, as well as some calculations on size and value for each casting. I'll have to complete it, but once I do I'll send it along to be posted.


Some fun additions from Naberous's Skills - choose whatever language you might need for the day with his skill option, lucid dreaming can also be fun if you can get a way to boost the skill check high enough to get a 25 reliably, use it to become Freddy Krueger to your enemies (page 203 in the Manual of the Planes) or to just communicate long distances with anyone.

A Lyre of Building, combined with wooden supplies from Zceryll can get you a 68571gp stronghold built once per week, with just 8 hours of playing. All of this done, for free. My character's bard cohort makes the perform checks for him. He's currently using this ability to rebuild Drellan's Ferry and start a stronghold of his own for the area. Eventually he'll use it to build an airship and just have to pay to have it enchanted.

If you just need weapons or armor a Djinn with its +12 Craft check can take 10 to make 1 masterwork Bronze wood item every 30 seconds for as long as you can keep summoning them.

Djinn also get Airwalk 1/day, with a Caster Level of 20, so each summon can grant 6 creatures the ability to use the spell. Our party was using it toward the end of the campaign to fly at 60mph in streams of white smoke like slow motion versions of the Death Eaters from the Harry Potter movies, takes 5 rounds to switch from smoke to solid form.

One thing I wasn't sure of, Summons can't use their teleportation or summoning Spell like abilities according to the summoning school, does that also include Plane shift if not once you get to Summon monster VII you effectively have a teleport as well, just plane shift to a benign plane (astral, celestial, ethereal), then again back to your destination on the material plane.



Assuming you can use Plane Shift, you actually get it sooner because of Ur'Epona from Manual of the Planes.  I think it's like Summon Monster 2.
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Quote from: Negative Zero on November 04, 2009, 02:16:14 AM
In my humble opinion, CO is haberdashery. Some say we're mad, but we can all agree we're hatters. Yes, we have potential to make very sophisticated hats, very fancy hats, be they dark or light. But the truth is that the color of the hat does not come from the group of us - our community doesn't directly produce hats. We simply give average head circumferences, list current fashion trends, and point out some shiny, obscure baubles to add to the latest hat line.

Cagemarrow

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Re: [WIP] Binder's Guide: Trade Your Soul for Awesome
« Reply #35 on: March 04, 2011, 09:19:49 PM »
Looks like Plane Shift is out.

Per the SRD for Summon Monster - A summoned monster cannot summon or otherwise conjure another creature, nor can it use any teleportation or planar travel abilities.

:(

Sobolev

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Re: [WIP] Binder's Guide: Trade Your Soul for Awesome
« Reply #36 on: March 04, 2011, 09:27:28 PM »
Looks like Plane Shift is out.

Per the SRD for Summon Monster - A summoned monster cannot summon or otherwise conjure another creature, nor can it use any teleportation or planar travel abilities.

:(

In the PHB it says it cannot use "Innate abilities" that do that, so things like "Teleport (Su):" are out, but I don't know about casting spells that teleport, I think those are fine similar to conjured creatures casting Summon Monster imo.  I asked this in the Ask a simple recently and that was the response I got.
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Quote from: Negative Zero on November 04, 2009, 02:16:14 AM
In my humble opinion, CO is haberdashery. Some say we're mad, but we can all agree we're hatters. Yes, we have potential to make very sophisticated hats, very fancy hats, be they dark or light. But the truth is that the color of the hat does not come from the group of us - our community doesn't directly produce hats. We simply give average head circumferences, list current fashion trends, and point out some shiny, obscure baubles to add to the latest hat line.

Cagemarrow

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Re: [WIP] Binder's Guide: Trade Your Soul for Awesome
« Reply #37 on: March 04, 2011, 09:36:17 PM »
Since most creatures that have it do so as a (Sp) ability, and the spell doesn't specify what kind of ability is blocked, my GM won't be lenient enough to allow any. Maybe someday I'll play with a GM that will.

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Re: [WIP] Binder's Guide: Trade Your Soul for Awesome
« Reply #38 on: March 04, 2011, 10:11:43 PM »
Here's how I check if it's "Innate".

Does every member of that race have it?  If the answer is "yes", then it's innate.  Otherwise, no.

Let's look at a Rakshasa for an example.  Do all of them have Detect Thoughts as an ability?  The answer is yes, so it's an innate ability.

Do they all have Melf's Acid Arrow as an ability?  The answer here is no.  Therefore, it is not an innate ability.
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Re: [WIP] Binder's Guide: Trade Your Soul for Awesome
« Reply #39 on: March 04, 2011, 10:44:06 PM »
Here's how I check if it's "Innate".

Does every member of that race have it?  If the answer is "yes", then it's innate.  Otherwise, no.
That's a bit problematic for a definition, since a lot of races have a set of different abilities that you can select from - for example, dragonborn or fey'ri. 
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