Author Topic: The War Compendium  (Read 33892 times)

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cru

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Re: The War Compendium
« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2011, 11:43:31 AM »
You can start the spells section with these three druid spells:
entangle (PHB)
impeding stones (Cityscape) - where entangle is not possible
predator's cry (Forge of War) - swift action panics animals (cavalry)

oslecamo

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Re: The War Compendium
« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2011, 12:51:02 AM »
Let's face it. Leadership is the easiest and most accesible way to gain loyal soldiers and other followers. This post shall be devoted to the leadership feat, its variants, and special info pertinent to leadership.

Linking to some Handbooks that will help in this regard:
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9157.0 - Thrallherd Handbook
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8817.0 - Handbook for Leadership and Army-Making

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#leadership

I must point out an often overlooked fact. Followers with PC classes count as higher level than followers with NPC classes (and adepts count as higher than warriors/experts), as clarified by the Epic Level Handbook. Thus you can't have all your 1st level followers be pimped warlocks/warblades/ PC classes, neither can you easily get mid level marshalls and bards and whatnot, because they all count as higher level than followers with NPC classes.

Talore

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Re: The War Compendium
« Reply #22 on: March 08, 2011, 10:02:26 PM »
Let's face it. Leadership is the easiest and most accesible way to gain loyal soldiers and other followers. This post shall be devoted to the leadership feat, its variants, and special info pertinent to leadership.

Linking to some Handbooks that will help in this regard:
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9157.0 - Thrallherd Handbook
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8817.0 - Handbook for Leadership and Army-Making

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#leadership

I must point out an often overlooked fact. Followers with PC classes count as higher level than followers with NPC classes (and adepts count as higher than warriors/experts), as clarified by the Epic Level Handbook. Thus you can't have all your 1st level followers be pimped warlocks/warblades/ PC classes, neither can you easily get mid level marshalls and bards and whatnot, because they all count as higher level than followers with NPC classes.
What is this I don't even. This makes leadership to hire a warband pretty much unviable, or otherwise not worth it until epic leadership. Unless you want an army of weaksauce informants or something. Which would actually be a cool spymaster character. But still...

Players: Keep this a secret from your DM, or otherwise ask him to disregard it.

DM: Be cool and disregard this. It makes it more fun for everyone involved. It makes a war campaign stupid if you have to rely on leadership for fail NPCs.

Seriously... if you have a combative nature with your DM whatever and you take leadership just for power accumulation, then you deserve to have fail followers. But if you're co-operative with your DM, then it should be easy to keep leadership as most of us knew it.
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geniussavant

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Re: The War Compendium
« Reply #23 on: March 09, 2011, 02:32:38 AM »
Let's face it. Leadership is the easiest and most accesible way to gain loyal soldiers and other followers. This post shall be devoted to the leadership feat, its variants, and special info pertinent to leadership.

Linking to some Handbooks that will help in this regard:
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9157.0 - Thrallherd Handbook
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8817.0 - Handbook for Leadership and Army-Making

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#leadership

I must point out an often overlooked fact. Followers with PC classes count as higher level than followers with NPC classes (and adepts count as higher than warriors/experts), as clarified by the Epic Level Handbook. Thus you can't have all your 1st level followers be pimped warlocks/warblades/ PC classes, neither can you easily get mid level marshalls and bards and whatnot, because they all count as higher level than followers with NPC classes.

Source please? I'm not seeing that in the SRD
[spoiler]
I see that you want to solve problems. Not problems like, "What is beauty?," because that would fall within the purview of your conundrums of 'philosophy'. You want to solve practical problems. F'r instance, how are you gonna stop some big, mean Mother Hubbard from tearing you a structurally superfluous new behind? The answer: Use a gun. And if that don't work? Use more gun.
And if that fails try this


 
[/spoiler]

oslecamo

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Re: The War Compendium
« Reply #24 on: March 09, 2011, 03:36:52 AM »
What is this I don't even. This makes leadership to hire a warband pretty much unviable, or otherwise not worth it until epic leadership. Unless you want an army of weaksauce informants or something. Which would actually be a cool spymaster character. But still...
But still, the main point of leadership is geting the cohort, not making your personal army. The cohort alone already makes leadership one of the strongest (if not the strongest of all) feats out there. If the followers are mini-PCs, then it's an headache for the DM to make any kind of proper challenge.

DM: Be cool and disregard this. It makes it more fun for everyone involved.
No, it makes a management nightmare for the DM when each PC has a bunch of minor PCs readying actions to stop enemy actions and taking cooperative spellcasting and whatnot.

It makes a war campaign stupid if you have to rely on leadership for fail NPCs.
Every army has it's cannon fodders. I say a war campaign will be stupid precisely if your whole "army" is composed of finely tunned casters in perfect synchornization.

In "leadership allows army of mini-PCs" land, there's no room for battle lines or bunches of dudes with pointy sticks or spies. There's only room for coordinated mages that really don't care about any military tactic but only about abusing magic as much as possible.

Seriously... if you have a combative nature with your DM whatever and you take leadership just for power accumulation, then you deserve to have fail followers. But if you're co-operative with your DM, then it should be easy to keep leadership as most of us knew it.
And how do most of us know it? As an auto-banned feat. Really, how much DMs out there you know that allowed leadership at all? The cohort alone already greatly empowers the party while slowing down the game. Your personal army of mini-NPCs will further slow down the game while empowering even more the party.

The only DMs I saw that do allow it with that interpretation are the ones that also allowed  druid planar sheperds on flesh rakers and spell-to-power erudites with psionic artificer cohorts. Precisely the more combative groups.

Non-combative DMs that want the PCs to have an army will always arrange other ways in my experience. Intimidate, Diplomacy or just the power of plot will give the players a proper bunch of NPCs with pointy sticks for them to lead.

Talore

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Re: The War Compendium
« Reply #25 on: March 09, 2011, 05:31:19 AM »
But still, the main point of leadership is geting the cohort, not making your personal army. The cohort alone already makes leadership one of the strongest (if not the strongest of all) feats out there. If the followers are mini-PCs, then it's an headache for the DM to make any kind of proper challenge.
But this style of play is all about making your own personal army. Most war campaigns are a challenge for the DM to accomodate, but if all the followers are weaksauce warrior 1s than there is no fucking point on leading an army. If the standard soldier can do no more than trip on his own spear than you might as well just WTFpwn the whole enemy army yourself and not worry about your own fail followers. Even the frigging common soldiers in Heroes of Battle are PC-classed.
No, it makes a management nightmare for the DM when each PC has a bunch of minor PCs readying actions to stop enemy actions and taking cooperative spellcasting and whatnot.
a) I highly doubt the level 1 followers are all spellcasters.
b) They're still NPCs. I'm writing a section into leadership and on 'Lieutenant' where the DM should organize NPCs into common groups that take the same action, such as Volley Teams.
c) Things like co-operative spellcasting becoming so horrendous is up for Dm fiat.

Every army has it's cannon fodders. I say a war campaign will be stupid precisely if your whole "army" is composed of finely tunned casters in perfect synchornization.

In "leadership allows army of mini-PCs" land, there's no room for battle lines or bunches of dudes with pointy sticks or spies. There's only room for coordinated mages that really don't care about any military tactic but only about abusing magic as much as possible.
Why the fuck is it the attitude of every poster on the boards that if PC classes are around, everyone's mother is a full caster?!?
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bearsarebrown

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Re: The War Compendium
« Reply #26 on: March 09, 2011, 05:32:58 AM »
Because full casters dominate the battlefield and killed all the other armies.

Talore

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Re: The War Compendium
« Reply #27 on: March 09, 2011, 05:39:04 AM »
Because full casters dominate the battlefield and killed all the other armies.
Some DMs care about flavour.
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bearsarebrown

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Re: The War Compendium
« Reply #28 on: March 09, 2011, 05:41:58 AM »
And creating inconsistent universes while house ruling things away. Look, I accept that you want to write this handbook and avoid spellcasting. But you should say that somewhere so people don't read it and get really confused and think things like "why the fuck would I use an archer volley when I could have a wizard volley of magic missiles?"

Rejakor

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Re: The War Compendium
« Reply #29 on: March 09, 2011, 12:28:25 PM »
Traditional historical battles didn't have wizards that could cast cloudkill.

If you want to write a guide for DMs that want to have wars in their campaigns in low/no magic games, or traditional wars that they justify somehow (The wizard's guild kills any spellcaster who meddles in politics from their flying doom sky fortress) (The kingdom of Amnar exists in an antimagic field and also has all the gold - let's take that fvcker!) that's totally okay, but you don't get to say that the existence of full-casters doesn't obsolete historical warfare.

A standard DnD war is a lot more like a modern battlefield.  Assuming of course NPC unoptimized casters and not optimized ones, who break the idea of 'war' in half completely.

'Air Support' in the terms of flying monsters or casters or high level rapidshot splitting spellstoring archers on flying mounts swoops above the battlefield.  A hidden MG nest on a clifftop opens up on a file of foot soldiers, three wizard spitting dozens of magic missiles per round out of wands at the spread out footsoldiers.  'Artillery' in terms of fireballs from half a mile away, or even any of the magical ballistas like fire, ice, or necromantic.  Use of the Water To Acid spell to create acidic projectiles for catapults.  Far Shot + Greatbow + spellstoring arrow (fireball) is like a V2 rocket.  Basic low level wizards or sorcerers using 'guns' (wands of magic missile) to snipe at each other from opposing trenchworks.  Magical means of conveyance are more like railroads than wagon-chains.  Large summoned monsters or buffed fighters/gishes are the Tanks, bashing aside terrain obstacles, crushing enemies beneath them, and having a caster and some apprentices ride them to act as their main gun and sponson/axial machinegun, as well as to refresh buffs or even heal them.

With some other less common options, even common soldiers could use spell-traps of magic missile to shoot at each other, and a soldier with a burning hands on a stick becomes Flamethrower-Guy.

Summoned monsters, machine gun nests, landmines, trench warfare, magic guns, buffed tanks (make it a buffed warforged to get iron kingdoms Warjacks), vast BFC effects (hallucinatory terrain, silent image, Move Earth, wall of fire), gas (cloudkill), artillery (the humble fireball, others), air forces (creatures with wings, mages, flying mounts)...

Regular non-conscripts with spell turrets soldiers would fill the role of 'commandos' more than anything.  Vast numbers of conscripts WWI style in trenches with spell turrets (magic missile, or searing ray for heavy weapons troopers) to supplement the armour and the air force, supported by the artillery.  Professional soldiers become the sargeants of the trenchworks, leading the conscripts to victory/death, or work together in small groups to assassinate enemy casters or otherwise monkeywrench enemy plans.

Really, War in DnD is amazing.  The kind of different tactics all the options magic gives could create vastly different forces.  Unfortunately the various 'heroes of battle' etc books assume magic is used up close and personal and everyone hits each other with axes.  And the only different tactics that are used is that dwarves are defensive and have axes and drow skirmish and use bows and light blades and poison.

The arch-artificers of Mnoyl and their Construct Legions vs the Mid-Royanaran League and their professional and technologically equipped army - constructs flying through the air fighting the warmages of the third Aeromancy Group, the metal constructs of the Ironworkers Guild advancing on the ranks of the Royanaran heavy foot, Large tower shields giving full cover against long-range fireballs while the magic missiles of the shell-shaped guns of the Royanarans deflect off the tough outer armour of the constructs.  Summoning circles behind the Royanaran line spit forth a long contingent of Fire Creature Fire Giant Mercenaries from the plane of Fire, who use their burning attacks to melt through the construct's armour, while taking casualties from the claws of the constructs and their electrified armour.  Rayemi berserkers from the Rayemi mountains of Royanar, hired for the occasion, charge forth from behind the lines, Huge sized, with Abjuration Guild wizards on their backs, warding them against harm and 33rd Wartransmuter Regiment casters making them unstoppable with buffs.

That is how war goes in DnD.  Historical warfare needs a) not to have warriors that can kill whole legions of troops on their own (heracles, beowulf, level 10 fighters) and b) not to have magic.  Pretty much any magic makes 'traditional' warfare pretty versimilitude breaking.  Cause it doesn't make sense that over the course of campaign history no-one would have figured out that wizards can kill massed formations of troops pretty easily.  Spreading out those troops then leads to an arms race that ends with far fewer traditional troops and many more wizards, trained animals, monsters, and things like spell-turrets.


oslecamo

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Re: The War Compendium
« Reply #30 on: March 09, 2011, 12:41:10 PM »
But this style of play is all about making your own personal army. Most war campaigns are a challenge for the DM to accomodate, but if all the followers are weaksauce warrior 1s than there is no fucking point on leading an army. If the standard soldier can do no more than trip on his own spear than you might as well just WTFpwn the whole enemy army yourself and not worry about your own fail followers. Even the frigging common soldiers in Heroes of Battle are PC-classed.
Because they're fighting by themselves, not with a powerfull PC party watching their back.

Yes, warriors by themselves are weaksauce. But when you have the party bard with words of creation or dragonfire inspiration, or the crusader buffing up their charges, or the cleric throwing around group buffs, and the wizard making them all fly/faster, even those puny warriors will become worthy oponents.

Group buffs assume that the party only had 3-4 members. When you have 30-40 dudes, group stuff becomes much stronger.

Also, the mob/unit template I linked earlier was made precisely to allow to lots of weak dudes to present a challenge.

No, it makes a management nightmare for the DM when each PC has a bunch of minor PCs readying actions to stop enemy actions and taking cooperative spellcasting and whatnot.
a) I highly doubt the level 1 followers are all spellcasters.
b) They're still NPCs. I'm writing a section into leadership and on 'Lieutenant' where the DM should organize NPCs into common groups that take the same action, such as Volley Teams.
c) Things like co-operative spellcasting becoming so horrendous is up for Dm fiat.
a)We both know how things work in optimization land. You give people options, they'll try to pick the strongest one.
b)Why would you want volley teams when you can have magic missile teams, or entangle teams, or grease teams? Entangle teams also brings your personal pack of wolves, doubling your followers!
c)Or you could apply the actual rules to prevent things from reaching that point.


Every army has it's cannon fodders. I say a war campaign will be stupid precisely if your whole "army" is composed of finely tunned casters in perfect synchornization.

In "leadership allows army of mini-PCs" land, there's no room for battle lines or bunches of dudes with pointy sticks or spies. There's only room for coordinated mages that really don't care about any military tactic but only about abusing magic as much as possible.
Why the fuck is it the attitude of every poster on the boards that if PC classes are around, everyone's mother is a full caster?!?

Well, if you want to prevent every follower from being a spellcaster, and you want to use houserules, then you should specify exactly that. Like only one in each 10 followers can be a spellcaster. Otherwise yeah, players will pick all their followers as casters.

Rejakor:
awesome description, altough magic missile doesn't allow for cover, and air superiority would probably be the main objective.

Otherwise any ground force will literally be crushed by massed falling objects droped from fliers


Prime32

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Re: The War Compendium
« Reply #31 on: March 09, 2011, 01:43:17 PM »
Pointing out that Eberron mentions the magewright NPC class being used as soldiers since they can wield magic items. So use those and adepts for followers.

Also, control weather is incredible. Block off an area 6 miles wide (or larger with metamagic) with tornadoes for 4 days and nights with a single casting.

Then there's illusions like hallucinatory terrain, mirage arcana, screen and veil to hide your troops. Teleportation circle lets you transport entire armies across the world.

Spells which summon swarms are lethal against infantry, since they can't hurt them without torches.


A warlock PC can be dangerous in large-scale warfare, since he can keep blasting all day long, his flight, DR/energy resistance and invisibility protecting him from mooks while his eldritch blasts and crowd control invocations mow them down by the bucketload (1d6 damage is enough to kill a commoner). Plus he can carry magic items for use as "nukes".

EDIT: There should probably be a note on the benefits of DR and energy resistance when fighting massive numbers of weak enemies. Their mages are unlikely able to disable you, and even if they do there's no way to finish the job if you have have DR 10/- and are fighting Str 10 guys with longswords.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2011, 02:06:18 PM by Prime32 »
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

oslecamo

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Re: The War Compendium
« Reply #32 on: March 09, 2011, 01:58:18 PM »
Pointing out that Eberron mentions the magewright NPC class being used as soldiers since they can wield magic items. So use those and adepts for followers.

Magewrights may work, but adepts are stated as counting as followers of their level+1.

EDIT: There should probably be a note on the benefits of DR and energy resistance when fighting massive numbers of weak enemies. Their mages are unlikely able to disable you, and even if they do there's no way to finish the job if you have have DR 10/- and are fighting Str 10 guys with longswords.
Bring out the scythes and start coup de gracing of course! :p

JaronK

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Re: The War Compendium
« Reply #33 on: March 09, 2011, 02:36:35 PM »
An important note on magic... check the DMG for demographics.  There simply isn't a large enough number of spellcasters available to most rulers, and they cost quite a bit (think of the cost in price per spells as a base line... even with a bulk discount the hourly rate for them is insane).  So it's fine to make a guidebook for what would truly be realistic wars in D&D.  Yes, some will be ended when a level 15+ Wizard takes interest, but that's hardly all the time.  Mostly, armies would be stuck with lots of Experts, Warriors, and even Commoners, and while there's a decent number of Fighters there aren't that many higher level mages (and Wizard 1s aren't that great at this).  So a good strategy makes use of the few casters you do have while also utilizing the many other troops available.

Anyway, Crusaders make amazing foot soldiers for elite units.  Run them in a checkerboard formation, with just under half having Martial Stance and the other half having Iron Guard's Glare.  Give them Awl Pikes and spiked Brigadine (it's cheap) and they can all boost each other's AC while healing each other.  In the back of each unit, a couple Crusaders can have Bolstering Voice and a couple can have Leading the Charge.

Binders handle unit coordination.  A Binder with Malphas can use birds to communicate... just have one Binder per unit, and that binder leaves his bird back at the command post.  Command gives an order, the Binder passes it along.  The bird can use some basic signaling back (flap wing once to indicate engaging enemy, for example).    Binders at the command post provide intel to the commanders without exposing the command group to the enemy.

Through a Marshal in each unit if you can, maybe two.  Even a level 1 Marshal is awesome.

And most importantly, Bards.  Bards with Masterwork War Drums (CAdv) and regular War Drums.  War Drums have crazy long range, so you can cover your whole army with each Bard.  Have two using regular Inspire Courage, one with Masterwork Drums.  That'll give some solid bonuses.  Then have one Bard for each element with Dragonfire Inspiration and Masterwork War Drums.  Now your whole army gets +2+10d6 damage per hit... awesome.

As for Fighters (who are very common) they make great archers.  Human Fighter 1 with a Longbow, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, and either Far Shot or Coordinated Archery.  Remember, with the damage boost you have a volley of these is extremely deadly.

And Commoners/Experts?  We'll assume you can't pick their feats because they're conscripts, so give them Heavy Crossbows.  There's a wonderful teamwork benefit for volley fire to use with these.  Pick the biggest, nastiest thing on the battlefield (Enemy monsters, perhaps?  Casters?) and have them fire away, regardless of range issues.  They've got 0 BAB anyway... but they still hit on a 20, and that Bard boost is in play.  80 such conscripts will still land four hits for over 100 damage regardless of AC. 

If you have a Binder who can bind Zceryll in the party, have him summon Genies.  They can create plant products that last forever, and he can spam this out.  To suggest a few plant products... Dwarvencraft Quality armors (Full plate, Mechanicus Gear, Studded Leather) made from Wildwood, Elven Darkleaf, or Elven Leafwave; Bronzewood and Serrenwood weapons; Black Lotus or Sinmaker's Surprise poisons; Bronzewood or Darkwood siege engines; Soarwood warships (with hemp or earthsilk rope for the rigging of course); and Earthsilk Jerseys. 

Magebreed Warbeast Valenar Riding Horses are some of the fastest domesticated mounts around, if you can get them.  100ft base speed is nothing to scoff at, and they hit pretty hard too.  Ridden by Lance wielding knights or shortbow wielding horse archers they can deal devastating damage and retreat again before the enemy can regroup.

And don't forget: armies fight on their stomaches.  Kill their supply lines.  Raid their supply carts.  Burn your fields as they advance.  Starve the bastards out (unless they have magical food production, of course.  In which case destroy or steal that!).

JaronK

oslecamo

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Re: The War Compendium
« Reply #34 on: March 09, 2011, 03:32:09 PM »
An important note on magic... check the DMG for demographics.  There simply isn't a large enough number of spellcasters available to most rulers, and they cost quite a bit (think of the cost in price per spells as a base line... even with a bulk discount the hourly rate for them is insane).  So it's fine to make a guidebook for what would truly be realistic wars in D&D.  Yes, some will be ended when a level 15+ Wizard takes interest, but that's hardly all the time.  Mostly, armies would be stuck with lots of Experts, Warriors, and even Commoners, and while there's a decent number of Fighters there aren't that many higher level mages (and Wizard 1s aren't that great at this).  So a good strategy makes use of the few casters you do have while also utilizing the many other troops available.
And that's precisely why leadership works as it does. Experts and warriors are a dime a dozen, adepts not so much, dudes with PC levels even less.

Anyway, Crusaders make amazing foot soldiers for elite units.  Run them in a checkerboard formation, with just under half having Martial Stance and the other half having Iron Guard's Glare.  Give them Awl Pikes and spiked Brigadine (it's cheap) and they can all boost each other's AC while healing each other.  In the back of each unit, a couple Crusaders can have Bolstering Voice and a couple can have Leading the Charge.
See, and now we're back in silly territorry. Where are you geting that many crusaders again?

And don't forget: armies fight on their stomaches.  Kill their supply lines.  Raid their supply carts.  Burn your fields as they advance.  Starve the bastards out (unless they have magical food production, of course.  In which case destroy or steal that!).
Undeads/constructs/outsiders would like a word with you. They don't give a damn about supplies of any kind. Rings of sustenance for your elite troops that happen to still need to eat. You don't need stiking supply carts. If anybody complains they're hungry, make them join the wight or half-golem division.

Rejakor

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Re: The War Compendium
« Reply #35 on: March 09, 2011, 03:49:08 PM »
Quote
altough magic missile doesn't allow for cover, and air superiority would probably be the main objective.

Otherwise any ground force will literally be crushed by massed falling objects droped from fliers

Magic Missile requires LoE.  Full cover blocks LoE.

For a realistic/versimilitudinous exploration of dropped spikes/bombs in combat, consider Naomi Novik's Temeraire series.

If you go low enough to accurately hit doodz, you're in range of AA.

If you don't, you're going to waste a lot of ammo, and consider operational distance/round trip times etc etc.  It's like arrow fire.  You pay the arrow toll, and then you move on.  Except it's the air superiority toll.  And moving at night etc.  Consider the tactics used by the german Heer in WWII when the Allies had total air supremacy.


As for demographics -

Using the ones in the DMG, I really wouldn't say, given the fluff of binders and martial adept classes, that they are any more common than wizards.

In any case, arms races are a big part of nations.  How many nukes did america and the USSR build, again?  A lot?

Wizards are pretty clearly made, not born, unlike sorcerers.  And so are magewrights.  So it's probably not inconceivable that a nation interested in defence could have a lot of them.


EDIT:  Besides, then you have that good ol' anime trope of mage-recruiters hunting the countryside for those with magic potential to draft into the National Aeromantic Battalion - Brittania needs mages that can fly!
« Last Edit: March 09, 2011, 04:07:10 PM by Rejakor »

Felix Underwood

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Re: The War Compendium
« Reply #36 on: March 09, 2011, 04:14:41 PM »
I second JaronK's call on bards and marshals, and I'll also throw in the Dragon Shaman and Dragonfire Adept.

The Aura's a Dragon Shaman can throw down can also be had with the Draconic Aura feat taken at 3rd level.

Low level Dragonfire Adepts can also help with their 24 hour buffs.  Enduring Exposure can help your troops brave the elements.

Epic Level Handbook is 3.0   Sure, it wasn't reprinted for 3.5 so it could still apply... but the DM could rule it only applies to epic characters.  Leadership is one of those game mechanics that is "Heavily" DM-specific.  I don't think it's worth debating as it will be different for every game.

I don't think we could discuss armies without mentioning Thrallherd though... ;)

It is true that the DMG demographics thingie suggests that PC classes are pretty rare while commoners live up to their name-sake, but once a PC tracks down even one worthwhile NPC, she could have her followers cross-train.  It wouldn't happen overnight, but if a DM allows, anything is possible.

I'll post some more later...  I gotta go for now.


"Recuiting" an army
snakeman830
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5966.0

Compilation of Low Level Builds
Kelan (care of: PhaedrusXY)
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1444.0


Rejakor

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Re: The War Compendium
« Reply #37 on: March 09, 2011, 04:25:07 PM »
Mentor feat etc etc.

There's nothing saying the Free State Of Llael couldn't have small units of troops each of which is bolstered by a dragon shaman or two, a marshal, a white raven school tactician, and a bard.  Relying on misdirection to get close and group buffs to mess up armies more focused around traditional field battles... totally worth it.

That's what I like about intelligently looking at the rules.  You can end up with so many viable military tactics and combinations.  And if there's anything you can learn from military history, people are going to try different army compositions and tactics.  And poor ones are going to fall by the wayside, over time.  And common failings are going to kept being made.

Prime32

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Re: The War Compendium
« Reply #38 on: March 09, 2011, 05:00:19 PM »
Anyway, Crusaders make amazing foot soldiers for elite units.  Run them in a checkerboard formation, with just under half having Martial Stance and the other half having Iron Guard's Glare.  Give them Awl Pikes and spiked Brigadine (it's cheap) and they can all boost each other's AC while healing each other.  In the back of each unit, a couple Crusaders can have Bolstering Voice and a couple can have Leading the Charge.
See, and now we're back in silly territorry. Where are you geting that many crusaders again?
You know, someone should create a ToB NPC class... Maneuvers from one school, so it comes with 9 variations.

EDIT: And now they have.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2011, 05:41:44 PM by Prime32 »
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

Talore

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Re: The War Compendium
« Reply #39 on: March 09, 2011, 05:14:03 PM »
And creating inconsistent universes while house ruling things away. Look, I accept that you want to write this handbook and avoid spellcasting. But you should say that somewhere so people don't read it and get really confused and think things like "why the fuck would I use an archer volley when I could have a wizard volley of magic missiles?"
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Inconsistent universes? I suppose WBL makes sense then >_> Honestly, so much of D&D doesn't work when you apply real-world logic to it. It has its own physics, economy, and myriad of other things that don't make sense. Thing is, what people are describing are high-magic campaigns, not "not low-magic campaigns." Sorcery, Warlock-ry, etc. are all rare innate abilities. Wizardry takes years of study (that's why their starting age is so much higher). No DM will have armies of wizards unless they (a) care nothing for flavour or (b) specifically call out for a high-magic campaign. Yes, most armies could start with warriors and commoners, but with (a reasonable amount of) training they could be fighters instead. But they can't materialize spellbooks all of a sudden.

Also, just a small thing, but longbow + 50 arrows = 80gp. Wand of Magic Missile = 750gp. A minority of people are going to be able to use the wand.
9 archers, or a single magic-missile wand user?

I can talk more, but I don't really feel like it. I will include all the relevant stuff brought up into the guide, but it's a guide to all kinds of war if I have the determination to write all of it. I refuse to accept that all wars are high-magic, because it's been run otherwise. It's as simple as that.
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