I don't think calling someone an idiot just because you're 100% wrong is conducive to winning an argument.
Who said I lost? the book still say spellcasting is a separate entity from special abilities. The books still say spellcasting isn't a SA. The over drama of separation of X and Y only empowers the separation of giving X and Y giving X.
JaronK refused to admit new sources, refused to admit classification of the untyped ability is a house rule, claimed the MM's glossary entry for spellcasting trumped the PHB's chapter on spellcasting. It took someone else to make a real point. And what is the point? Spellcasting is Ex? MMV's own glossary still states spells are untyped so no. Not true at all.
Consider the Chameleon's Bonus Feat class feature for a moment. The trait it's marked Ex, assuming you were a druid before hand you could use this Ex ability to acquire Cheetah's Speed. Cheetah's Speed, as a Wild feat, is a supernatural ability and not extraordinary like all other feats and no extraordinary like the Chameleon's Bonus Feat class feature.
So what is it?
1. Cheetah's Speed, by merit of being granted via something and instantly reneges on it's type and becomes Ex.
2. Cheetah's Speed remains (Su) as all Wild feats are noted as being regardless of what grants it.
If you choose 2 then stop posting you agree with me. If you chose 1 then hey you should run with that in the TO section entitled "The feat Assume Supernatural Ability is Ex and therefor the granted Su trait is Ex too, listen to me break this ^_^"
Lost your wrong! Arcane/Divine Talent are the new way to express monster spellcasting, if we replicate the effect as the MMV/FF1 has set up all previous monsters have those traits thus all monster granted spellcasting is Ex!That would be a very excellent point and one I would not truly argue against if you could show case an example of Arcane/Divine Talent being used like that. Let's prove it!
MMIV-152: Redspawn Arcaniss. Doesn't have class levels & has spellcasting. No SQ/SA entry at all, special ability area doesn't note anything useful.
Dragons of Eberron-60: Rakshasa half-green dragon rogue 10, Same thing again. You can also scroll down for a half-fiend old gold dragon.
Elder Evils-130: The Worm That Walks(ce huge aberration), ooh it has sorcerer spells... Oh nm not in SA/SQ/or notation of spellcasting in the last block.
Well I give up already, Heck, given DoE provides updated state blocks of monsters whom previously had a
Spells entry and now taht such entry is removed. The same italic text above can be reprinted to say no such monster has a
Spells entry anymore, which I already commented was a deprecated term but not I have examples proving it.
In the end. Spellcasting remains untyped (which means typing it is a house rule) and is still treated separately from special abilities in everything but one word found in an example which newer rules remove that claim. Arcane/Divine Talent are still specific abilities that do not replace the general rules and no claims can be made to say it is the new method of handling monster granted spell entries. We are very much still back at the original debate except I'm sick of listening to JaronK's MM's SA entry > 96 books and now I have Dragons of Eberron to wave around for the next thread. It's a form of progress.