Author Topic: [Pathfinder] Want a 1st level agile warrior  (Read 17562 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

StreamOfTheSky

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 190
Re: [Pathfinder] Want a 1st level agile warrior
« Reply #40 on: February 24, 2011, 12:17:19 PM »
As for the weapon, up until 11th(where you MIGHT be able to consider using two weapons), the best pick is a 2 handed reach weapon, and if you're using traits, get the best polearm you can with Heirloom weapon(which starts you off with a free proficiency in that specific weapon, free masterwork and a free +1 to hit with that specific weapon). A Bardiche or Guisarme is probably as good as you can get without using other books for equipment. Bonus to Reach, your alchemist can throw bombs without splashing you.
Presuming PF and APG material only though, some of the feats might need to change.

Picks
Power Attack - Theres almost no reason not to take this and use it all the time.
Furious Focus - No penalty to power attack on your first attack, this means up until level 4, Power Attack is a free +3 damage, then it becomes a free +6. Sure the penalty applies to opportunity attacks, but those are rarer and you'd probably still hit after a mere -1.

Dodge - prereq for Mobility, which you'd be using a lot if you plan to move in and out of reach.
Mobility - +4 AC when dealing with AoOs, you can probably shift this behind a bit if you use a reach weapon and your enemies.
Spring Attack - You'd be using this with Furious Focus until you reach 11th, might as well get used to it.

Dazing Assault - Coming it late at level 11, it turns your attacks into daze-lock combos, if you got a high to hit, theres not much drawback to using this whenever your opponent is healthy

Theres more options but I got to leave for work now, bleargh.
EDIT:
Mmm, delicious Wind Stance, might be worth the Dex investment.

Sunic_Flames

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 4782
  • The Crusader of Logic.
Re: [Pathfinder] Want a 1st level agile warrior
« Reply #41 on: February 24, 2011, 12:29:10 PM »
Does a ranger class elicit the same levels of hate as a fighter/rogue?
ie - will a ranger be able to keep up better?

In Pathfailure, no. All beatsticks fail, and if you aren't a full caster you are a beatstick. In 3.5 they are better than Fighters, and about the same as Rogues, but still not that good.
Smiting Imbeciles since 1985.

If you hear this music, run.

And don't forget:


There is no greater contribution than Hi Welcome.

Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

IP proofing and avoiding being CAPed OR - how to make characters relevant in the long term.

Friends don't let friends be Short Bus Hobos.

[spoiler]
Sunic may be more abrasive than sandpaper coated in chainsaws (not that its a bad thing, he really does know what he's talking about), but just posting in this thread without warning and telling him he's an asshole which, if you knew his past experiences on WotC and Paizo is flat-out uncalled for. Never mind the insults (which are clearly 4Chan-level childish). You say people like Sunic are the bane of the internet? Try looking at your own post and telling me you are better than him.

Here's a fun fact: You aren't. By a few leagues.
[/spoiler]

Dionysus

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 67
Re: [Pathfinder] Want a 1st level agile warrior
« Reply #42 on: February 24, 2011, 12:44:48 PM »
In Pathfailure, no. All beatsticks fail, and if you aren't a full caster you are a beatstick. In 3.5 they are better than Fighters, and about the same as Rogues, but still not that good.

So, according to you, only way to play without being a burden on others is to be a full caster (wizard type) anything else is made of fail.

But full caster is not fun, never has been for me, especially if I have to pick x/y spells to remember ahead of time.

You advice to me is essentially - dont play D&D you will not enjoy it.

Going on past experience, this game will only last (at most) 6 months or so... That is about 12-20 sessions. Starting from lvl1 this means we wont be getting very far past the first 5 to 10 or so levels.

Does your advice on "pathfail" still hold when limited to these low levels?

veekie

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 9034
  • WARNING: Homing Miko
Re: [Pathfinder] Want a 1st level agile warrior
« Reply #43 on: February 24, 2011, 01:14:00 PM »
For rangers, they start of slightly weaker(unless you talk with your DM about favored enemies, they might not even show up, or you can), but definitely scale a lot better.
The key trick up until your spells and animal companion comes in, is that your fighting styles need not meet prereqs, allowing you to for example, use a high strength two weapon fighting power attacker(not that this is particularly powerful, but it sucks a bit less than the alternative of dexterity based two weapon fighting and getting a secondary stat to damage instead of primary).

Archery - Its not bad by default, though most ranged attacker rangers would qualify for these easily anyway(thus 'losing' the benefit of waiving of prereqs). Deadly Aim, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot are the order of the day, and Rapid Shot not far behind(once you have enough bonus to hit reliably even with exchanging 1/4 of your BAB for damage). Manyshot comes in at later levels.
Archery would be stats in order of Dex Str Wis Con, with what you can spare in Int for skills. If you want mobility, get a composite shortbow and fire from your mount(buy a light horse to use until your animal companion shows up). In emergencies, note that alchemical items can be thrown to benefit from archery feats as well, and they tend to hit for touches.
Use Handle Animal to combat train your mount yourself(hey, it's a class skill for a reason). Remember that as long as your mount only makes a single move, you don't suffer any penalties to your attacks.

Two Weapon - Normally TWF is a headache, you get ability score dependency issues with TWF feats high dexterity requirements and melee being based off str, as well as enemies not standing there for you to full attack. The ranger waives these, so all you need to deal with is hitting, dealing damage and getting there to full attack.
At level 1, you don't have your fighting style feat yet, so grab a double weapon(most of these are two handed weapons as well) or one-handed weapon and fight with Power Attack like other fighters do. Nab Double Slice if you have 15 Dex(preferably getting there with the help of a magic item rather than weaken your Str). The remainder of the feats can go into mounted combat, Improved Initiative or Teamwork feats(if your party has someone willing to invest in them as well or if you can persuade your DM that you can teach them to your animal companion, some of these are awesome), until you qualify for Dazing Assault.
Use the Heirloom Weapon trait if you need it for the exotic proficiency, plus, your +1 to hit applies to that weapon, whichever end you're using and hey, it's a free masterwork. The Urgosh isn't a bad weapon for this.
Of course, for mounted melee, until you qualify for Mounted Skirmisher, you're going to be using single attacks quite a bit as well, so half the time the advice for 2H weapon combat from before still applies(which is also the reason for using a double weapon, since you can just twohand it).

Natural Weapon - This is a bit more effective than two weapon fighting at early levels, but might not fit your character image. Also, at 1st level, you normally don't have any natural weapons, and would be using 2 handed weapon with power attack like everyone else.
So your mileage may vary. Key part is that it qualifies you for Aspect of the Beast, which amongst other things(trading Low Light Vision to Darkvision is really handy at early levels), gives you two claw attacks as primary weapons, which can be used to make 2 attacks while full attacking, at basically no penalty.
The damage dice is flimsy though, so preferably you have access to someone who can put you in a form with more claws and natural weapons. It rather falls behind otherwise once you go past 6th or so.

Two Handed - Well, this is pretty much idiot proof. Not much explanation needed beyond what the fighter uses.

Weapon and Shield - If you're set on sword and board, please use Phalanx Fighter instead. You'd have better AC and the stuff it gives isn't that bad.

Ranger Variants:
Beast Master - Not bad if you're using archery, 2H or some other combat style that you aren't reliant on your combat style feats for. Its definitely an exceptional scout(plus, if your party spellcasters have long ranged attacks, you can use a bird companion or two to scout out the target, and call in air strikes without risking yourself. Animal companions are replaceable. If you can persuade your DM to allow Natural Bond, yay.
Guide - Swap Favored Enemy for the Focus, which is nice, lose the animal companion, which isn't so nice.
Horse Lord - Not worth the trouble, honestly.
Infiltrator - Kinda tricky to use and most of the abilities are pretty trivial.
Shapeshifter - Form of the Bear is nice for combat, though its otherwise fairly regular.
Skirmisher - Never seen it used myself, anyone got thoughts on it?
Spirit - heavily DM dependent on how useful divinations are
Urban Ranger - Well, if you really need a rogue replacement, this could work. Pretty cool in cities though.

Prestige Class wise, a quick dip in Horizon Walker is usually nice, but straight ranger isn't really bad or anything.

Spells:
You can just prepare what seems useful for the day, but generally given how few slots you have, stuff that helps in combat seems more worthwhile.
Aspect of the Falcon - If you're an archery ranger and have any forewarning of a fight(e.g. if you got your pets scouting), use this. Its a hell of a bonus for a 1st level spell.
Entangle - Goddamn awesome spell, even if you're getting it later than a druid. Just be careful not to catch your own guys in the area.
Gravity Bow - Unless you're already riding some size increases, Aspect of the Falcon is more useful
Lead Blades - If you're riding size increases, well, stack em up.
Speak with Animals - train some animals to do spying for you and then use this spell. Strictly utility, but it depends heavily on how you play and your DM.
Speak with Plants - see above, but highly situational

Thats just the lower level ones you'd probably see for now, the rest are a long long way away.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

skydragonknight

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 3297
Re: [Pathfinder] Want a 1st level agile warrior
« Reply #44 on: February 24, 2011, 01:21:55 PM »
Well, it's not that 'beatsticks' can't contribute, but they're very resource intensive (expensive weapons/armor, buying pearls of power for key buffs from mages). Though at very low levels base weapon damage is still relevant so you won't see this come into play right away.
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

veekie

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 9034
  • WARNING: Homing Miko
Re: [Pathfinder] Want a 1st level agile warrior
« Reply #45 on: February 24, 2011, 01:28:40 PM »
He'd be going from levels 1-6, maybe 10, so I figure he's good.
Melee TWF is still a pain in the butthole though.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

juton

  • King Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 809
  • Jack of all trades, master of nothing.
    • Email
Re: [Pathfinder] Want a 1st level agile warrior
« Reply #46 on: February 24, 2011, 01:56:28 PM »
Does a ranger class elicit the same levels of hate as a fighter/rogue?
ie - will a ranger be able to keep up better?

I mentioned this Ranger variant earlier : http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/ranger#TOC-Guide

Specifically the 'Ranger's Focus' ability, which acts like a Paladin's smite adds to your attack and damage. If you pick up Power Attack, the Ranger's Focus ability should completely offset the penalty to hit at all levels, so you can consistently do damage. I think it's probably the best non-magical character archetype in Pathfinder (well it does get a bit of casting). I won't speak for others, but in the games I play in such a Ranger would feel right at home.

veekie

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 9034
  • WARNING: Homing Miko
Re: [Pathfinder] Want a 1st level agile warrior
« Reply #47 on: February 24, 2011, 02:04:40 PM »
^^
That ranger gives up the companion though, which is a pity because even at the penalty it makes a nice ride.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

Sunic_Flames

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 4782
  • The Crusader of Logic.
Re: [Pathfinder] Want a 1st level agile warrior
« Reply #48 on: February 24, 2011, 03:56:25 PM »
In Pathfailure, no. All beatsticks fail, and if you aren't a full caster you are a beatstick. In 3.5 they are better than Fighters, and about the same as Rogues, but still not that good.

So, according to you, only way to play without being a burden on others is to be a full caster (wizard type) anything else is made of fail.

Wizard, Sorcerer, Cleric, or Druid.

Quote
But full caster is not fun, never has been for me, especially if I have to pick x/y spells to remember ahead of time.

If you don't like any full casters, Pathfailure is not the game for you.

Quote
You advice to me is essentially - dont play D&D you will not enjoy it.

Going on past experience, this game will only last (at most) 6 months or so... That is about 12-20 sessions. Starting from lvl1 this means we wont be getting very far past the first 5 to 10 or so levels.

Does your advice on "pathfail" still hold when limited to these low levels?

My advice is essentially - don't play Pathfailure, you will not enjoy it, especially if you don't like the only archetype is supports.

And yes. At levels 1 and 2 everyone randomly dies regardless of actions, tactics, or build quality. From level 3 on, where decisions actually matter? Yes, beatsticks are worthless, and yes, save or lose spam is the only way to go. Play 3.5, seriously.
Smiting Imbeciles since 1985.

If you hear this music, run.

And don't forget:


There is no greater contribution than Hi Welcome.

Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

IP proofing and avoiding being CAPed OR - how to make characters relevant in the long term.

Friends don't let friends be Short Bus Hobos.

[spoiler]
Sunic may be more abrasive than sandpaper coated in chainsaws (not that its a bad thing, he really does know what he's talking about), but just posting in this thread without warning and telling him he's an asshole which, if you knew his past experiences on WotC and Paizo is flat-out uncalled for. Never mind the insults (which are clearly 4Chan-level childish). You say people like Sunic are the bane of the internet? Try looking at your own post and telling me you are better than him.

Here's a fun fact: You aren't. By a few leagues.
[/spoiler]

Bester

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 187
    • Email
Re: [Pathfinder] Want a 1st level agile warrior
« Reply #49 on: February 24, 2011, 05:10:52 PM »
My advice is essentially - don't play Pathfailure, you will not enjoy it, especially if you don't like the only archetype is supports.

And yes. At levels 1 and 2 everyone randomly dies regardless of actions, tactics, or build quality. From level 3 on, where decisions actually matter? Yes, beatsticks are worthless, and yes, save or lose spam is the only way to go. Play 3.5, seriously.

Pathfinder Modules tend to be easy, if you are playing modules you can play a monk just fine.  If it's all homebrew, a good dm will support your build with houseruling/coddling.  Of course, some of us don't like to be coddled and want to be competent in our own right.  Sunic is right in suggesting a caster for that goal.

The tier of your party seems to be high 3, I'd suggest sticking to a class in that range.  I cannot tell you how frustrating it is playing a fighter amongst wizards.  The main reason for this is lack of options.  That's why I love 3.5 Factotum, who would be perfect for a Dastan.  It does not convert well to Pathfinder however.

Also, everyone randomly dies in 3.5 at low levels.  That's part of what makes it low levels.  Heroes just starting out apparently can die easily...what a novel concept.  In fact, in 3.5 it doesn't have to be random at all (there exist no save level 1 spells that can just kill you outright).  A DM would be justified in having a level 1 kobold with all the cheese Paining you to death from his hidey-hole(short game that).  But still, 3.5 is the better system just due to all the splat support.

Of course some of us have moved on.  I'll stick with my Pathfinder/3.5 liberal house rules thanks.  As your game goes on, the dm will probably start adding house rules so you can succeed with any build you are playing.  This happens in most games.

Sunic_Flames

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 4782
  • The Crusader of Logic.
Re: [Pathfinder] Want a 1st level agile warrior
« Reply #50 on: February 24, 2011, 07:20:38 PM »
My advice is essentially - don't play Pathfailure, you will not enjoy it, especially if you don't like the only archetype is supports.

And yes. At levels 1 and 2 everyone randomly dies regardless of actions, tactics, or build quality. From level 3 on, where decisions actually matter? Yes, beatsticks are worthless, and yes, save or lose spam is the only way to go. Play 3.5, seriously.

Pathfinder Modules tend to be easy, if you are playing modules you can play a monk just fine.  If it's all homebrew, a good dm will support your build with houseruling/coddling.  Of course, some of us don't like to be coddled and want to be competent in our own right.  Sunic is right in suggesting a caster for that goal.

AoW/SC/ST = Meat grinders.

All the other stuff = ranges from auto ambushes, to lol Trolls at level 1, to hahaha fuck you, you lose no matter what.

Quote
The tier of your party seems to be high 3, I'd suggest sticking to a class in that range.  I cannot tell you how frustrating it is playing a fighter amongst wizards.  The main reason for this is lack of options.  That's why I love 3.5 Factotum, who would be perfect for a Dastan.  It does not convert well to Pathfinder however.

Problem: Pathfailure is all about promoting imbalance. There is no Tier 3. Only buffed high tiers and nerfed low tiers.
Smiting Imbeciles since 1985.

If you hear this music, run.

And don't forget:


There is no greater contribution than Hi Welcome.

Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

IP proofing and avoiding being CAPed OR - how to make characters relevant in the long term.

Friends don't let friends be Short Bus Hobos.

[spoiler]
Sunic may be more abrasive than sandpaper coated in chainsaws (not that its a bad thing, he really does know what he's talking about), but just posting in this thread without warning and telling him he's an asshole which, if you knew his past experiences on WotC and Paizo is flat-out uncalled for. Never mind the insults (which are clearly 4Chan-level childish). You say people like Sunic are the bane of the internet? Try looking at your own post and telling me you are better than him.

Here's a fun fact: You aren't. By a few leagues.
[/spoiler]

juton

  • King Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 809
  • Jack of all trades, master of nothing.
    • Email
Re: [Pathfinder] Want a 1st level agile warrior
« Reply #51 on: February 24, 2011, 07:55:27 PM »
Quote
The tier of your party seems to be high 3, I'd suggest sticking to a class in that range.  I cannot tell you how frustrating it is playing a fighter amongst wizards.  The main reason for this is lack of options.  That's why I love 3.5 Factotum, who would be perfect for a Dastan.  It does not convert well to Pathfinder however.

Problem: Pathfailure is all about promoting imbalance. There is no Tier 3. Only buffed high tiers and nerfed low tiers.

Except Buhlman loves spamming classes with Bard progressions. The Alchemist, Inquisitor, Summoner and the nascent Magus all get 6th level spells, out of the 10 wholly new classes released or in Beta that's a bit much. Now 6th level spells doesn't automatically mean they function at T3 (or even function) but none of those classes is as powerful as Wizard or Druid (except maybe the Summoner, but I doubt that, discussion for a different thread).

Thing is, (newer) paizo modules are beat by paizo players, a lot of them fall into the naive game bullshit of fireball wizards and healbot clerics, but they manage to persevere. If you are playing in one of the newer modules the bar to success is so low that, yes, even a fighter can step over it.

Bester

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 187
    • Email
Re: [Pathfinder] Want a 1st level agile warrior
« Reply #52 on: February 24, 2011, 08:02:13 PM »
If you are playing in one of the newer modules the bar to success is so low that, yes, even a fighter can step over it.

I'd go so far as to say even a monk.  In fact, the cleric can get away with just healing (I do this).

This doesn't detract from the experience however because my module group is completely inexperienced at making characters and playing games in general.

I'd also rank Paladin as the middle class in Pathfinder.  They don't suck against evil.

Anarchy_Kanya

  • That monkey with the orange ass cheeks
  • ****
  • Posts: 251
  • Bisexuality rocks! Anarchy Rules! Anarchy Girl FTW
Re: [Pathfinder] Want a 1st level agile warrior
« Reply #53 on: February 24, 2011, 08:22:05 PM »
@ Dionysus
Don't listen to Sunic. He's suggestions are biased by his hate of Pathfinder and anything that's not a full-caster.
Better ask your GM how much optimization is required. If not much, then the suggestions from 1 page of this thread are good for you. If you're playing in a high-optimization game, then TWFing really isn't gonna work (at least not without pro-class optimization).
Fly Away With Me!
We Are Angels! Anarchy!
[spoiler]
Once my 12 level VoP exalted Monk beat a Horned Devil. ALONE! The only dmg the devil could do to me was from one spell-like that he menaged to shoot out before he droped. :D
wow... you are the epitome of trolling...

Non complete list of people here that are not fuckwits: bearsarebrown, BeholderSlayer, Dictum Mortum, Ithamar, Kajhera, RelentlessImp, SeekingKnight, Shiki, Solo.
You didn't include yourself. Does that mean you're a fuckwit? ???

Hi Welcome
Then I can assume the answer to the question is "Yes".
[/spoiler]
Making Fighters special - lil project by me.

Sunic_Flames

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 4782
  • The Crusader of Logic.
Re: [Pathfinder] Want a 1st level agile warrior
« Reply #54 on: February 24, 2011, 08:44:03 PM »
Ignore Jarona, aka Kanya, as he/she/it is only a stalker troll, who does nothing but follow me around like an abused animal, and whine and flail about me.

Quote
The tier of your party seems to be high 3, I'd suggest sticking to a class in that range.  I cannot tell you how frustrating it is playing a fighter amongst wizards.  The main reason for this is lack of options.  That's why I love 3.5 Factotum, who would be perfect for a Dastan.  It does not convert well to Pathfinder however.

Problem: Pathfailure is all about promoting imbalance. There is no Tier 3. Only buffed high tiers and nerfed low tiers.

Except Buhlman loves spamming classes with Bard progressions. The Alchemist, Inquisitor, Summoner and the nascent Magus all get 6th level spells, out of the 10 wholly new classes released or in Beta that's a bit much. Now 6th level spells doesn't automatically mean they function at T3 (or even function) but none of those classes is as powerful as Wizard or Druid (except maybe the Summoner, but I doubt that, discussion for a different thread).

So let's see.

I thought the Alchemist was good, but I guess not. I know the Inquisitor is just a super gimpy Bard, so definitely low tier. The Magus is an absolute gimp of the highest order, seeing as it is just like a Duskblade, except without any and all of the things that let Duskblades actually do their jobs, so it fails, and the Summoner is either a fail class, or a win class, depending on how the poorly worded class feature is read.

Quote
Thing is, (newer) paizo modules are beat by paizo players, a lot of them fall into the naive game bullshit of fireball wizards and healbot clerics, but they manage to persevere. If you are playing in one of the newer modules the bar to success is so low that, yes, even a fighter can step over it.

There have been two related threads on the Paizil boards. One discussed how much the Paizils want their DMs changing published modules. Around 90% of them said, effectively "as much as possible". Ignoring the fact this completely defeats the point of buying the damn thing to begin with, this makes anything they do relating to those modules automatically invalid.

Before this there was another thread discussing dice fudging. Most of the Paizils admitted both to doing so frequently, and to expecting the DM to do it for them if they are not the DM. So this is me being unimpressed at the fuckwits beating a game after turning on cheat codes.



Also, Paladins have no stamina, and little power, so they still fail.
Smiting Imbeciles since 1985.

If you hear this music, run.

And don't forget:


There is no greater contribution than Hi Welcome.

Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

IP proofing and avoiding being CAPed OR - how to make characters relevant in the long term.

Friends don't let friends be Short Bus Hobos.

[spoiler]
Sunic may be more abrasive than sandpaper coated in chainsaws (not that its a bad thing, he really does know what he's talking about), but just posting in this thread without warning and telling him he's an asshole which, if you knew his past experiences on WotC and Paizo is flat-out uncalled for. Never mind the insults (which are clearly 4Chan-level childish). You say people like Sunic are the bane of the internet? Try looking at your own post and telling me you are better than him.

Here's a fun fact: You aren't. By a few leagues.
[/spoiler]

Dionysus

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 67
Re: [Pathfinder] Want a 1st level agile warrior
« Reply #55 on: February 28, 2011, 05:39:54 AM »
Thanks to all of you for the feedback :)

I've modified the character to be something that a) I will enjoy, and b) is not going to fail so hard as levels progress.

To that end I am going to be playing an Oracle (of Battles).
He is Haunted (so gains mage hand and ghost sound)
Spells are just known, and can be cast x times a day. (so i dont need to worry about picking the right spells for that day, which I hate about wizards/clerics).

Starting out:
str: 16
dex, 14
con, 8
int 14,
wis, 8
cha, 19 (17+2 human)

class revelation : skill at arms (so I am starting out with scale armor and heavy shield) to protect me from beatsticks as they seem to be so lovingly called)

own feats: extra revelation: weapon mastery (scimitar) Works like weapon focus, but upgrades as I gain levels to have more crit and damage too.

also: eschew materials (not sure about this, maybe something better? extra revelation "battle cry" maybe?)

The idea of this guy is as a buffer. He can fight as well as the paladin if needed, or stand back and buff up people with divine favor, resistance, guidance, magic weapon etc. He also gets for free all the "inflict" spells, which while atm are not so great, become more scary as time goes on.

As he levels up I'll be aiming at getting more necromantic spells and summoning to have lots of minions :)

Comments?
(yea, moved away from fast fighter, now looks like a palladin, but will be getting lots of minions and death spells as time goes on)

Sunic_Flames

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 4782
  • The Crusader of Logic.
Re: [Pathfinder] Want a 1st level agile warrior
« Reply #56 on: February 28, 2011, 09:34:36 AM »
8 Con? On any character of any class? DANGER! Gimp detected! Slaughter imminent!
Smiting Imbeciles since 1985.

If you hear this music, run.

And don't forget:


There is no greater contribution than Hi Welcome.

Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

IP proofing and avoiding being CAPed OR - how to make characters relevant in the long term.

Friends don't let friends be Short Bus Hobos.

[spoiler]
Sunic may be more abrasive than sandpaper coated in chainsaws (not that its a bad thing, he really does know what he's talking about), but just posting in this thread without warning and telling him he's an asshole which, if you knew his past experiences on WotC and Paizo is flat-out uncalled for. Never mind the insults (which are clearly 4Chan-level childish). You say people like Sunic are the bane of the internet? Try looking at your own post and telling me you are better than him.

Here's a fun fact: You aren't. By a few leagues.
[/spoiler]

Pimpforged

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 159
Re: [Pathfinder] Want a 1st level agile warrior
« Reply #57 on: February 28, 2011, 09:59:28 AM »
8 Con? On any character of any class? DANGER! Gimp detected! Slaughter imminent!

Agreed.

8 Con is pretty much a death sentence, particularly if you're fighting in melee.

Dionysus

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 67
Re: [Pathfinder] Want a 1st level agile warrior
« Reply #58 on: February 28, 2011, 11:30:58 AM »
hmm.

i should probably swap out dex and con? (is dex needed for spell targetting?, if so, swap str?)

How important are skills during the game? is it better to have the 3 more skills, or just put 8 int and eat the skill loss?

Sunic_Flames

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 4782
  • The Crusader of Logic.
Re: [Pathfinder] Want a 1st level agile warrior
« Reply #59 on: February 28, 2011, 11:45:37 AM »
hmm.

i should probably swap out dex and con? (is dex needed for spell targetting?, if so, swap str?)

How important are skills during the game? is it better to have the 3 more skills, or just put 8 int and eat the skill loss?

Dex only matters for rays, but those fail in Pathfailure, and I'm not even sure if that class gets any, so sure. It would be better to swap str though. I mean, what the hell do you need str for?

Skills are more useless than ever. The handful of skills that were useful were nerfed heavily either by nerfing their effect, jacking up their DC, or both. And spells > skills in any case. So don't worry about those. If you can get some without losing any real abilities, then you might as well, but if you have the choice between anything that matters, and skills, skills will always lose. Especially in Pathfailure, the game all about shoving it to beatsticks.
Smiting Imbeciles since 1985.

If you hear this music, run.

And don't forget:


There is no greater contribution than Hi Welcome.

Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

IP proofing and avoiding being CAPed OR - how to make characters relevant in the long term.

Friends don't let friends be Short Bus Hobos.

[spoiler]
Sunic may be more abrasive than sandpaper coated in chainsaws (not that its a bad thing, he really does know what he's talking about), but just posting in this thread without warning and telling him he's an asshole which, if you knew his past experiences on WotC and Paizo is flat-out uncalled for. Never mind the insults (which are clearly 4Chan-level childish). You say people like Sunic are the bane of the internet? Try looking at your own post and telling me you are better than him.

Here's a fun fact: You aren't. By a few leagues.
[/spoiler]