Max dex. Feats: Agile maneuvers, combat expertise, improved dirty trick. Spam Dirty Trick, have fun.
"Fizzle."
Another classic line.
Edit 3: Not all archetypes are supported. Dex Fighters have been Full of Fail since... forever, really. You can't do DPS (even more so than a regular Pathfailure character), you still get auto hit, and you accomplish a whole lot of nothing. Also, it's IP Proofing.
Dexterity-types ARE supported; just because you don't know how to do something doesn't mean it's not doable.
Look at the swordsage combined with Shadow Blade. That alone makes for a viable Dex-based build. Granted, this is perhaps the ONLY class that makes for a good Dex build, but it alone debunks your idea that Dex warriors aren't supported at all.
Can't do DPS, super squishy, and it's perhaps the best of the lot. Also, doesn't exist in Pathfailure.
They're capable of good damage. Stance + boost + maneuver (and any number of possible feats) means a swordsage is nearly as capable of damage as the other initiator classes. And since the focus of a swordsage is more on stealth and skills than pure damage, this seems like a reasonable trade-off.
And considering the fact that I've backed up everything that you've called me on without fail, and done so rather competently (generally to the exclusion of argument in the end), I think this might very well be another in a long line of such things.
Only if you define such as more straw men.
Anyways, even stock mobs, aka a zero optimization game tear Dex builds apart.
If we're talking absolutely no optimization (including having a low Dex and no attempt to make a useful character) then sure.
That's what zero optimization means. However, the minimum of optimization on a swordsage (good Dex score, Weapon Finesse, Shadow Blade, and focus on Shadow Hand), then you'll end up with something that's decent even in a reasonably optimized game (whatever that might mean).
Hi Welcome
Context matters. Like right there. See how I said, anyways, even stock mobs, aka a zero optimization game? In that order? Describing the games optimization level immediately followed a reference to the opposition. Clearly, the statement reads: "Even unoptimized enemies absolutely annihilate Dex gimps". Unless of course you're just interested in spamming strawmen, in which case Hi Welcome again.
And my point is that 'zero optimization' is misleading. What determines 'zero optimization'? Putting a high Dex score (ie, greater than 10) in a Dex-based build is optimization. So zero optimization means we can't have that.
If you don't mean 'zero optimization,' then don't say it. If you meant it as something else, then please say so.[/quote]
Hi Welcome
You're doing it again.
Me: Even completely unoptimized monsters tear you apart.
Lycan: More herp derp about zero optimization on the character, which has nothing to do with the topic, as the character is not a damn monster. And even if they are, he's not fighting himself, so it's still a goddamned straw man.
Me: Correcting wrongness and fail, with descriptions.
Lycan: Repeat herp derp.
Edit
Anything that allows you to move and take a level-appropriate action could count. This includes casting spells, taking out one strong foe or a number of weaker ones (whether through a full attack, an AoE effect, a disabling maneuver, or a one-hit-one-kill potshot). This IS doable, but as I said, outside of the swordsage it requires a bit of work.
Casting spells is not a mobile melee. In addition to context, reading comprehension is your friend. Hi Welcome
Casting a spell can very well be melee. Look at
rusting grasp/shocking grasp/chill touch/etc. And the ability for a duskblade to channel spells.[/quote]
Oh look, spells that don't do enough damage to meet the viable criteria. And if you assume Duskblade, you get to deal with the fact it's still not good DPS, as a mobile melee for most of the game, as they're just as full attack dependent as everyone else, don't get Standard channel until 3, but do get multiple attacks at 6. Which leaves a narrow little window at 3-5. And that assumes you are defining mobile melee as run up and hit it, which probably isn't what he means, anyways. Not to mention, lol not Pathfailure. Don't insult everyone's intelligence by bringing up the Magus, you're degenerating fast enough as is.
Taking out enemies, with melee, while being mobile means Pounce. Otherwise you do not qualify as both mobile, and viable, as you aren't full attacking and moving at the same time.
Look at the swordsage. They're quite maneuverable, with the ability to move (jump) as a swift action (allowing them to full attack without pounce), teleport as a move, and deal decent amounts of damage with boosts and standard action maneuvers. They don't need pounce to be maneuverable, and yet they're good martial characters nonetheless. This is only augmented with feats. I mean, make a hood using swordsage and see how well those jump-based maneuvers deal damage when multipliers and damage modifiers start adding up.
[/quote]
Because Jump checks allow you to cover long distances?
Swordsages need houserules just to stop failing. Not as many as say, a Fighter, but they still aren't a playable class out of the box.