Author Topic: optimizing hit points for a tank (lvl25 gestalt)  (Read 3703 times)

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tomoqiel

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optimizing hit points for a tank (lvl25 gestalt)
« on: February 22, 2011, 09:36:55 AM »
hello everyone

the background:
I've been playing dungeons and dragons in some form or other for a very long time, and as time progresses you tend to want more as the cup gets hardeer and harder to fill. so a year ago some freinds and I decided to take an adventure to as extreme a degree possible in the given d&d rules. we started up a campaign concerning the multiverse as a whole. the setting is that the multiverse is colapsing and the lady of pain have contracted some heroes to correct a corrupt lodestone on each plane. the store goes on and on, but suffice to say it's all very epic. for a campaign like this we ofcourse need some pretty epic toons as well, so pretty much anything goes. be it bahamut's chosen highpriest, helm's highest saint or the master assassin of mask.

what we have:
well. people tend to change toons all the time, either because they die, because they get pissed off at another groupmember or some other reason, but so far we've had a dragonriding cavalier paladin with a rediculous damage output, a shadow djinn rogue with something like 150 in hide, a dervish with 35-odd attacks each round and ofcourse a few wizard/incantatrix/cloistered cleric type of toons.

the rules:
in the way of power playing pretty much anything goes, barring pun-pun and the other options from the you break it, you buy it section. we use all the core books ofc, all the settings, tomes and races of, all the sourcebooks and so on. we don't use anything published too far out of wizards quality reach, so no wierd d20 licenced stuff or dragon magazine. the GM is pretty lenient all round as long as the choises makes sense from a flavour perspective. and houseruling stuff is not out of the question.

What I want:
now for the real challenge. I'm building the tank of the outfit. but not just any tank, I want a hit point based guy. ac is nice, but not a must. good saves would be nice as well, but yet again not the highest priority. I want hit points and piles of it. not damage sponges or tricky ways to get out of it. just a good old wall of ham. also I want crit immunity so I don't get hacked up. so far I have conjured up two options:

option #1 the Con monster
earthchild/mineral warrior/werebear and maybe a half dragon or something for the 2 extra con, buy as much con on items as possible including spells made permanent on items, throw in some fist of the forest and deepwarden for ac and a few dips here and there for extra tidbits, swordsage for ac, palladin for saves and some other stuff. and elemental archon for the flavour and the uncritability. this should end up with a con 56-ish and about 600 hp.

option #2 the undead
I haven't given the second option too much thought yet, but the scetch is to as much charisma as possible. chosen template, nymph or something and the rod of splendor, then get walker of the wastes and dry lich for the unholy toughness. the problem here is that the healer in the party normally use healing ring, I think it's called, (a big multiheal thingie) and being undead is bad news there, so I need to be able to heal myself as well. some contingencies perhaps or something.

anyway, this is as far as I've gotten. I'd be very happy to see any extra tidbits to either approach or a 3rd or 4th option. and lastly. I've scoured the web for this and it's proven next to impossible to find, but if there's some thread somewhere for this, I'm sorry for the dubble post and just send me the link.

looking forward to read all your broken ideas. greetings from denmark

skydragonknight

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Re: optimizing hit points for a tank (lvl25 gestalt)
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2011, 09:51:53 AM »
Probably should go for max Con...maybe a Primeval(Frostburn)/Fist of the Forest(CC)/Deepwarden(RoS) build gestalted with Dwarven Sorcerer. Just get 22 Cha for spells(Regression drops it to 19; Base 16(14) +6 cloak, +2 Tome, Wilding clasps) , forget spells requiring saves and enjoy the Dwarven Sorcerer substitution level(RoS), which will let you use Constitution for bonus spells/day...so grab Arcane Strike for damage on top of the standard Wraithstrike + Power Attack.

Cave Ankylosaurus (Miniature's Handbook) is my favorite Primeval Form(amazing natural armor and high Con boost)...oh, and remember to use Primeval Form AFTER you use the Shapechange spell to get absolutely ridiculous ability scores.

Actually...Shapechange doesn't affect hit points...but IIRC Primeval Form does, so I'm not 100% sure how that would resolve...

Edit: so yeah, just hit points from base Con + Primeval Form. Ridiculous Strength, Fort and Will saves (if you take Steadfast Determination) are just gravy. AC is quite absurd.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2011, 10:16:21 AM by skydragonknight »
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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: optimizing hit points for a tank (lvl25 gestalt)
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2011, 10:16:09 AM »
Renegade mastermaker is the way to go for high HP. 
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skydragonknight

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Re: optimizing hit points for a tank (lvl25 gestalt)
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2011, 10:19:49 AM »
Renegade mastermaker is the way to go for high HP. 

Now to turn those hit points into an attack form...wasn't there a dragonlance feat that let you sacrifice hit points for damage? Basic Channel + Fireball.
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tomoqiel

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Re: optimizing hit points for a tank (lvl25 gestalt)
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2011, 11:04:41 AM »
I'll definately go for the Primeval. it's a shame I won't be able to talk during shapeshift, but it's definately a very good option. I need to find something else than the Cave Ankylosaurus tho. it is no doubt the best, but I don't really fancy being a dinoraus. rather something big and hairy.
I still need some way to get out of sneak attacks and crits tho. will the elemental archon trick still work for that?


Renegade mastermaker is the way to go for high HP.  

I do see your point about the renegade mastermaker, but I don't think the GM is gonna buy that one. I theory I could explain to him that each operation would take no longer than the battlefist operation, which is one day. so if I add a new component (of any size) each day I could have 1000 extra hit points in 3 years, but since I could make a toon that's say, 60 years old, I would have 15k extra health.
but if we go that way, I could just as well have participated in 1000 Bloodtouched Rites (PGtE p23), giving me 1000xcha bonus to hit points. unfortunately I do need something more solid, something backed up directly by the rules.

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: optimizing hit points for a tank (lvl25 gestalt)
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2011, 11:30:15 AM »
It is backed solidly in the rules

Quote from: ECS 268
Attaching or detaching a warforged component is a standard action that never provokes an attack of opportunity.

Just figure out how many hp you think you can get away with for a given gold investment.  Then divide through and find out how much per component you'll pay.  Get some variety going - don't cheese out with just warforged component version of gray ioun stones - mix it up with blessed bandages, skill shards, and the like.
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Mixster

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Re: optimizing hit points for a tank (lvl25 gestalt)
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2011, 11:42:14 AM »
Dry Lich + One level of Dread Necromancer = Always max hit points.

If the DM allows fast spellcasting progression chars to be taken at over the maximum. Ur-Priest + Walker in the Waste can go crazy high in HP while still being tremendously useful.
Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

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bearsarebrown

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Re: optimizing hit points for a tank (lvl25 gestalt)
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2011, 12:27:18 PM »
Walker In The Waste gestalted with Wilder UMDing Power Link Shards exploding Vigor and using Shared Pain on psycrystal. 25d12 + 25* Cha + ~400 and you take half damage from everything.

Tshern

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Re: optimizing hit points for a tank (lvl25 gestalt)
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2011, 04:43:26 PM »
I second the Walker in the Waste idea. Maybe a Cloistered Cleric/WitW//Wilder or something. Crank up high as hell and go to town. For extra lulz make sure to get Corpsecrafter, Desecration and Undead mastery bonuses to that. 1d12+CHA+6 per HD and then toss in the combo mentioned above.

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Lycanthromancer

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Re: optimizing hit points for a tank (lvl25 gestalt)
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2011, 06:44:30 PM »
toon
You probably shouldn't use that term.

It sounds, for lack of a better term, utterly retarded.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2011, 06:46:51 PM by Lycanthromancer »
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
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Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
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shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
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Rebel7284

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Re: optimizing hit points for a tank (lvl25 gestalt)
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2011, 08:31:36 PM »
I personally don't like giving up constitution.

Possible build:

Feral Dragonborn Mongrelfolk Mineral Warrior (+6 Str, -4 Dex, +12 Con, -8 Int, -6 Cha).  Feral optional, if your DM lets you, do half minotaur from Dragon.

LA+2/Barbarian 2/Stoneblessed 3/Deepwarden 2/Fist of the Forest 1/Bear Warrior 5/Warshaper 3/Warhulk 6/Sacred Exorcist 1
//
Druid 24/Binder 1

Your charisma sucks, so you need to fuel DMM with nightsticks.
You do, however, add 2.5 Con to AC.

You can always add were bear too.

edit: also add Warblade for the Concentration-check maneuvers.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2011, 08:35:30 PM by Rebel7284 »
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Ithamar

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Re: optimizing hit points for a tank (lvl25 gestalt)
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2011, 09:05:35 PM »
How silly do you actually want to be here?

Dwarf (1 HD) - +2 CON
Naturalborn Were-Dire Vulture (6 HD, +3 LA)  - +14 CON
Tauric Dire Badger (4 HD, +2 LA) - +12 CON (+16 when raging)
Half-Farspawn (+4 LA) - +6 CON
Lolth-Touched (+1 LA) - +6 CON

11 HD, +9 LA -> +40 CON bonus, or +44 when raging

Start with base 18 +40 +5 Level Bumps +5 Tome = 68

On the other side stack Fist of the Forest, Deepwarden, Warshaper, etc.  With only basic items and whatnot, you'll have an 82 CON while raging & warshaped.  That right there, not counting HP from HD, gives you +900 HP at level 25.  And you've got 5 more LA to play with on one side if you really want.  You could add in Voidmind (immunity to ability damage is always nice), Feral, Draconic, Mineral Warrior, etc.
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bearsarebrown

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Re: optimizing hit points for a tank (lvl25 gestalt)
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2011, 09:11:04 PM »
Walker In The Waste gestalted with Wilder UMDing Power Link Shards exploding Vigor and using Shared Pain on psycrystal. 25d12 + 25* Cha + ~400 and you take half damage from everything.
18 Base
2 Race
6 Item
5 Inherent
5 Levels
=36 -> +13

A simple Cha score leaves this build with 893 HP on average, and all HP damage is cut in half. You're also a full caster and a full manifester. And you're damn hard to kill after your HP is 0. Power Link Shards and Initerial Armor are giving you an AC in the 70s.

Lycanthromancer

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Re: optimizing hit points for a tank (lvl25 gestalt)
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2011, 09:26:42 PM »
If you're, say, an archivist, you could simply become immune to death via hp damage...
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

Rejakor

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Re: optimizing hit points for a tank (lvl25 gestalt)
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2011, 09:14:50 AM »
Level 25 gestalt lets you win the game.  Without even particularly trying.


So essentially the question is what do YOU want to do?  Win the game?  Play an insanely tough noncasting character?  Win the game just enough that the GM doesn't ban your character?  Win it enough to kill anyone you want but do it quietly and then entertain yourself watching the mortals (the rest of the party) struggle?

StreamOfTheSky

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Re: optimizing hit points for a tank (lvl25 gestalt)
« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2011, 09:25:12 PM »
Psion + a d12 HD class(es)?  Use fully augmented Vigor for massive temporary hp, have the d12HD, and jack up Con.  I'd probably do Warblade for the Int synergy.  Could try to do a Changeling so youcan take some Warshaper levels for +4 con, if the extra 50 hp much matters.  Bear Warrior for a big con boost would be nice if it could be used without interfering with manifesting, and would let you enter Warshaper with any race (Water Orc, Water Halfling, Dwarf, Warforged, Forest Gnome, or Whisper Gnome would probably be the best picks).