[Campaign Setting] A Dying Ember

[TheVorpalTribble]

This dream network is also perfect for the Society Mind class, and explains so much.

So what I think is happening in Licc is those under the affect of the edge are influencing others through Introvertia, and 'creatures' are being introduced which are a personification of large groups and families combined. Since all groups want to 'survive' these creatures are often hostile. If certain families or groups combine so does their collective 'protector'. Perhaps when the head of the group in whatever form it takes dies, there is a possibility that their soul instead flows into the creature, giving it life. Thus it becomes a spiritual ancestor.

The psychic intrusions are Far Realm creatures taking them over and driving them into madness.

Just thinking of how much of a psychic shock the survivors would feel, though come to think of it, gestalt entities comprised of Far Realm beings 'seeded' with the torn mental shreds of the apocalypse dead. The stronger wills might even come back recognizably.

Come back as what?

[veekie]

Some kind of thought-ghost maybe?
Like a Far Realm mindless, formless force absorbing shape, personality and memory from the chunks that falls in it's region until it acquires enough reality to start thinking(and given it's memories, it probably is critically confused). Something like a Changeling(in that its appearance is going to be pretty fluid), but more Far Realm than doppleganger-lite.

[veekie]

Hmm, the Edge effect would correspond nicely with the state of the dreamscape at the time too.
The effect of raw unshielded exposure to Dream would likely be
Global Utopian Society - A strong feeling of oneness and kinship with the cosmos
Modern or classic fantasy society - Confusion, emotional overflow(as the personality core and it's avatars are exposed to the influence of free agents outside the mind and lose coherence), powerful hallucinations.
Apocalypse or Post Apocalypse - Bad Trip + Power Trip. The end caused much of the dream to be littered with the psychic screams of the dying and the dead. The survivors are plunged into a living nightmare, so what wanders the dream are overwhelmingly horrific. Regimented minds living in a strongly coordinated society buffer themselves from the worst of the exposure by combining their minds through close bonds to form fortresses of will and self willed manifestations of their society, which then rip apart or at least weaken would be intrusions.

Thats before even considering Far Realm invasions.
And on that note, the Thought-Ghost thing would do nicely, if the physical aspect is dropped, and what you wind up with is someone who went to bed as one person and woke up as a legion. Over time the Far Realm power would eat away slowly at the shell that houses the collective, altering it to fit it's self image...or it would if it had any one image, as many of the chunks won't even be humanoid, much less the same species/gender/personality.

[TheVorpalTribble]

Apocalypse or Post Apocalypse - Bad Trip + Power Trip. The end caused much of the dream to be littered with the psychic screams of the dying and the dead. The survivors are plunged into a living nightmare, so what wanders the dream are overwhelmingly horrific. Regimented minds living in a strongly coordinated society buffer themselves from the worst of the exposure by combining their minds through close bonds to form fortresses of will and self willed manifestations of their society, which then rip apart or at least weaken would be intrusions.

This would be a great addition to the history of Licc and such. Why they finally decided to use the drug, to try to combat the nightmares and seal themselves away into their own little cliches. Hence the arm, mind, spirit bit they do.

Now, what kind of symbol might each portion of the body of Licc take... this psychic creature would take that image.

Thats before even considering Far Realm invasions.
And on that note, the Thought-Ghost thing would do nicely, if the physical aspect is dropped, and what you wind up with is someone who went to bed as one person and woke up as a legion. Over time the Far Realm power would eat away slowly at the shell that houses the collective, altering it to fit it's self image...or it would if it had any one image, as many of the chunks won't even be humanoid, much less the same species/gender/personality.

Ok, who is this someone? Think I'm reading it wrong.

[unosarta]

This dream network is also perfect for the Society Mind class, and explains so much.

So what I think is happening in Licc is those under the affect of the edge are influencing others through Introvertia, and 'creatures' are being introduced which are a personification of large groups and families combined. Since all groups want to 'survive' these creatures are often hostile. If certain families or groups combine so does their collective 'protector'. Perhaps when the head of the group in whatever form it takes dies, there is a possibility that their soul instead flows into the creature, giving it life. Thus it becomes a spiritual ancestor.

The psychic intrusions are Far Realm creatures taking them over and driving them into madness.

Are these creatures physical beings, or made of spiritual energy? They almost seem like they are being described as either or.

[TheVorpalTribble]

Are these creatures physical beings, or made of spiritual energy? They almost seem like they are being described as either or.

Thinking they may be capable of both. Still thinking on it.

[unosarta]

Thinking they may be capable of both. Still thinking on it.

If they could be physical, it almost sounds the like the description I posted in the GitP thread.

I would imagine it being like a mass of huddled people, sitting in communal prayer and companionship. Because they have such huge numbers, they essentially walk as a huge mass everywhere, staying as close as possible to keep heat. Any animals found are promptly eaten. A fleshwarping agent could find its way inside of the mass, and change their flesh from the inside, fusing them together and creating a giant flesh golem. It would have limbs and faces hanging haphazardly off of it, the mouths wordlessly crying out.

Admittedly, less fleshwarper, more "dreamwarper"?

[veekie]

^^
Spiritual seems to be best I think, have them act like ghosts?
That is to say, highly physical on their home realm(Dream), and an immaterial presence away from there, unless they have the power to manifest themselves a physical avatar form.

Was thinking of maybe another new race of sorts, of the 'made not born' variety.

1) Take the last shreds of personality and memory from a thousand dying minds, hurl it into the Void, where they crystallize around mindless Far Realm energies and make their way back into the Dream. These entities are far more 'human' and confused than the usual Far Realm invaders, they think they are human, as their personality and mind is constructed out of actual people. No soul though. There is some internal consistency, as these fragments tend to seek out those similar to them.
2) These thought-entities roam and invade minds in Dream, where they eventually take residence in a suitable host's mind(it must have common ground with whatever memory fragments formed the entity, perhaps it was a relative, perhaps it shared a trade, or similar personality), becoming a parasitic spiritual presence.
3) As for the host, he wakes up one morning with a thousand minds inside his head and an aching void in his soul.
2b) Some of these don't find hosts, but rather sweep up the thought-detritus in Dream, adding to its form
3b) These would become more monstrous as in seeking more humanity, they become more inhuman. You don't get more human by summing a million humans.

[unosarta]

2b) Some of these don't find hosts, but rather sweep up the thought-detritus in Dream, adding to its form.

I am almost imagining that if the soul fragments got too many too fast, the larger thing wouldn't be able to fit into a host, leaving it to wander the dream endlessly, constantly sweeping for more soul fragments. The dream would be far to large for it to be able to find every soul, but the image is one that could be very disturbing, if taken to the right levels.

[veekie]

Less of can't fit into(since each host has room for a minature continent at least, in his midn, if not a planet), more of incompatible, since the broader you are, the less likely to find a HOME there, though you could certainly wander around inside and cause untold damage and nightmares while the angels AND demons on your shoulders gang up on the freaky intruder.

[veekie]

Come to think of it I oughta come up with a default geography for INSIDE a given mind.

[Prime32]

^^
Spiritual seems to be best I think, have them act like ghosts?
That is to say, highly physical on their home realm(Dream), and an immaterial presence away from there, unless they have the power to manifest themselves a physical avatar form.

Was thinking of maybe another new race of sorts, of the 'made not born' variety.

1) Take the last shreds of personality and memory from a thousand dying minds, hurl it into the Void, where they crystallize around mindless Far Realm energies and make their way back into the Dream. These entities are far more 'human' and confused than the usual Far Realm invaders, they think they are human, as their personality and mind is constructed out of actual people. No soul though. There is some internal consistency, as these fragments tend to seek out those similar to them.
2) These thought-entities roam and invade minds in Dream, where they eventually take residence in a suitable host's mind(it must have common ground with whatever memory fragments formed the entity, perhaps it was a relative, perhaps it shared a trade, or similar personality), becoming a parasitic spiritual presence.
3) As for the host, he wakes up one morning with a thousand minds inside his head and an aching void in his soul.
2b) Some of these don't find hosts, but rather sweep up the thought-detritus in Dream, adding to its form
3b) These would become more monstrous as in seeking more humanity, they become more inhuman. You don't get more human by summing a million humans.

Kalashtar could work for that. Or that CPsi race - synads?

[unosarta]

Come to think of it I oughta come up with a default geography for INSIDE a given mind.

Do it. I was ruminating on the topic, and I was thinking. If a creature's mental landscape is based on their brain itself, then wouldn't someone with a larger intelligence's (or someone who has made more neural pathways) brain be easier to traverse? Almost like the dreamed-soul is riding the pathways of the brain to get around their head.

Also, you make it sound like the conscious is almost a physical object within a target's brain, which I wholeheartedly approve of. The conscious seems to almost be like the natural defense system of the mind. And, the larger a target's Intelligence, the stronger their conscious could be. This means that, although it is easier to traverse a mind if the dreamed-soul is targeting someone with a more developed brain, but their conscious is going to be proportionally as large. And, they can fight the conscious of someone whose brain has yet to create many neural pathways, but moving around in that brain is going to be a PITA.

Just some brainstorming.

[TheVorpalTribble]

I am almost imagining that if the soul fragments got too many too fast, the larger thing wouldn't be able to fit into a host, leaving it to wander the dream endlessly, constantly sweeping for more soul fragments. The dream would be far to large for it to be able to find every soul, but the image is one that could be very disturbing, if taken to the right levels.

Sort of like dream cancer.

I would imagine it being like a mass of huddled people, sitting in communal prayer and companionship. Because they have such huge numbers, they essentially walk as a huge mass everywhere, staying as close as possible to keep heat. Any animals found are promptly eaten. A fleshwarping agent could find its way inside of the mass, and change their flesh from the inside, fusing them together and creating a giant flesh golem. It would have limbs and faces hanging haphazardly off of it, the mouths wordlessly crying out.

But this would be 'inside' the head?

Come to think of it I oughta come up with a default geography for INSIDE a given mind.

Is that where we bring in mindscape combat?

[veekie]

I am almost imagining that if the soul fragments got too many too fast, the larger thing wouldn't be able to fit into a host, leaving it to wander the dream endlessly, constantly sweeping for more soul fragments. The dream would be far to large for it to be able to find every soul, but the image is one that could be very disturbing, if taken to the right levels.

Sort of like dream cancer.

I would imagine it being like a mass of huddled people, sitting in communal prayer and companionship. Because they have such huge numbers, they essentially walk as a huge mass everywhere, staying as close as possible to keep heat. Any animals found are promptly eaten. A fleshwarping agent could find its way inside of the mass, and change their flesh from the inside, fusing them together and creating a giant flesh golem. It would have limbs and faces hanging haphazardly off of it, the mouths wordlessly crying out.

But this would be 'inside' the head?

In Dream, likely, outside Dream I figure it'd be sorta ethereal(except for not being actually on the ethereal) overlapping them.

Come to think of it I oughta come up with a default geography for INSIDE a given mind.

Is that where we bring in mindscape combat?

Well, mostly directly altering mindscapes seems to be the province of the personalities INSIDE that person's mind, though I suppose Dream itself is probably malleable to some extent.

But the rationale is it's awfully hard to explore a mind without at least a sample case demonstrating how it works, how you get from an outer layer to an inner,etc. Would take a while though.

[unosarta]

Sort of like dream cancer.

That is an... apt description.

But this would be 'inside' the head?

It certainly could be. Ho man, that would be an intense person, who carried the lives of his entire town in his head. Binder, perhaps?

Is that where we bring in mindscape combat?

I agree whole heartedly.

[TheVorpalTribble]

I'm still only vaguely on the same page as you guys (my second week of the flu/cold/hellbug doesn't help) so feel free to write something up with your idea and I'll see what I can do with it.

As for mindscape combat, Hyperconscious has an updated version of it that I'm looking through now.

[TheVorpalTribble]

Also just added Cowan's City and his constructs to the Forgotten South. This is actually one of the first areas/creatures I homebrewed, just never got around to adding them.

[unosarta]

I'm still only vaguely on the same page as you guys (my second week of the flu/cold/hellbug doesn't help) so feel free to write something up with your idea and I'll see what I can do with it.

As for mindscape combat, Hyperconscious has an updated version of it that I'm looking through now.

[TheVorpalTribble]

Hmm, that sounds like a mix between my Foregoer and Storyhost PrCs.

Edit: Btw, an idea was planning on. Duergar/dream dwarves. Both were once the same sub-dwarf. They were a breed of psionic dwarves who approached the Edge, much as the Liccans did. The Duergar are those who went insane and fled from the realization of reality. The Dream dwarves were those that managed to stay sane, who did their meditations within caverns of psi-crystal. Able to focus their minds through it and 'discharge' their fear within the crystals, they remain sane. Now they work to strengthen their minds and resolve so as to 'peak over', instead of throwing themselves into it like those under the Desire of the Edge.

Those that venture unheeding and unprotecting into these special crystal caverns can possibly go mad from the stored psychosi trapped within.

The reason the duergar are racially insane now is that their children are connected with them through their dream societies as part of their madness. Thus they are born unbalanced and dreading of the Edge even if they have no idea what it is any more.