Author Topic: [3.x] Gotta Collect 'em All: the Big 6  (Read 8212 times)

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Kaelik

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Re: [3.x] Gotta Collect 'em All: the Big 6
« Reply #40 on: March 05, 2011, 02:14:03 PM »
Thanks for the tip-off, RP.

Secondly, "The Big Six" are not, and have never been mandatory. Saves are mandatory. Your primary attribute is mandatory. Nothing else is mandatory. The other four are just bullshit that fighters and only fighters have ever needed. Fighters with those things are still not real characters, so there is no reason to pretend that real characters have to spend money in order to be real characters. In the mean time, real people can choose to devote their bonuses in different directions.
I've never heard anyone say "fighters aren't real people" before. This idea made me chuckle.

Anyway, by "fighters" you mean "non-casters," because they can't imitate the Big 6 with spells? Or do you literally mean "fighter-type characters"?

In this case, I mean fighters. What does and does not count as not a real character depends on a lot of things.

If you are charging for 300 damage at level 6, you are, in fact, a real character. If you are a Tome fighter, real character. If you are some convoluted Bloodstorm Blade build, or Archer build with the right bonuses, you are a real character. But hypothetically, if you are playing Core only, Barbarians are real characters till level 8, Druids/Rogues/Wizards/Sorcerers/Clerics are real characters, and arguably bards.

There are lots of builds that are real characters up to about level 12, but once level 13 kicks in, you have to either have spells/SLAs, or a laundry list of cool defensive/mobility/offensive Su or Ex abilities that allow you to bypass common obstacles.

At no point however is anyone's real character status determined by "because they can't imitate the Big 6 with spells" Most real characters can't imitate the big six with spells.

Wizards can do saves only at level 11, and weapons from level 7, though they often don't do weapons, because who cares. Clerics and Druids also get some AC boosters, but it's perfectly viable to not use the Druid one at all. Dread Necros and Beguilers and Sorcerers usually can't mimic any of the big six, or Psions either, but they are still real characters. The answer is that because WotC is stupid, and doesn't understand what makes a real character, it turned out to be the case, that disproportionately many of the real characters don't actually care about AC at all, because they rely on the strategy of not being in full attack range of a full attacking anything.

Which is frankly why the biggest of the big six is primary attribute.

AleksanderTheGreat

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Re: [3.x] Gotta Collect 'em All: the Big 6
« Reply #41 on: March 05, 2011, 06:05:50 PM »
Explain "real character".
Quote from: Sephirothsword117
Quote from: Solo
Optimizing is the antithesis of roleplaying because it takes focus away from the important parts of the game.
I'm inclined to disagree. People work hard on there characters, there personality, back ground, appearance, so forth. No one wants there character that they have invested time, energy, thought, and probably emotion in to be killed because they didn't take strong enough feats or skills or spells or what have you.

Kaelik

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Re: [3.x] Gotta Collect 'em All: the Big 6
« Reply #42 on: March 05, 2011, 06:15:13 PM »
Explain "real character".

That is literally what I just did.

AleksanderTheGreat

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Re: [3.x] Gotta Collect 'em All: the Big 6
« Reply #43 on: March 05, 2011, 06:17:37 PM »
In simpler words, please. The above post is too confusing for me.
Quote from: Sephirothsword117
Quote from: Solo
Optimizing is the antithesis of roleplaying because it takes focus away from the important parts of the game.
I'm inclined to disagree. People work hard on there characters, there personality, back ground, appearance, so forth. No one wants there character that they have invested time, energy, thought, and probably emotion in to be killed because they didn't take strong enough feats or skills or spells or what have you.

Kaelik

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Re: [3.x] Gotta Collect 'em All: the Big 6
« Reply #44 on: March 05, 2011, 06:36:49 PM »
In simpler words, please. The above post is too confusing for me.

A real character is a PC who can face appropriate EL challenges. The point being that EL appropriate challenges are not just fights, and at higher levels fights require passing a six question multiple choice exam to even get to swing your sword once (If you are dumb enough to use a sword).

AleksanderTheGreat

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Re: [3.x] Gotta Collect 'em All: the Big 6
« Reply #45 on: March 05, 2011, 06:42:14 PM »
Okay. That's more clear. Thanks.
Quote from: Sephirothsword117
Quote from: Solo
Optimizing is the antithesis of roleplaying because it takes focus away from the important parts of the game.
I'm inclined to disagree. People work hard on there characters, there personality, back ground, appearance, so forth. No one wants there character that they have invested time, energy, thought, and probably emotion in to be killed because they didn't take strong enough feats or skills or spells or what have you.