Author Topic: No Spellcasters!?!?!? Thats Absurd! [3.5]  (Read 24030 times)

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dman11235

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Re: No Spellcasters!?!?!? Thats Absurd! [3.5]
« Reply #80 on: July 20, 2008, 12:02:08 AM »
Funny thing Surreal, my archer build was debating on swift hunter, since they are so cool.  But since I'm hiding at will anyways, I might as well do a rogue.

@atrocity: that doesn't quite answer my question...
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Stratovarius

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Re: No Spellcasters!?!?!? Thats Absurd! [3.5]
« Reply #81 on: July 20, 2008, 06:25:29 PM »
Yeah, still waiting on the restrictions to pick out a few things (like the starting classes :P)
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atrocity05

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Re: No Spellcasters!?!?!? Thats Absurd! [3.5]
« Reply #82 on: July 21, 2008, 04:46:44 AM »
Well, I suppose I'll allow MoI.  But ToM is still out and the rest of the restrictions are layed out on the first post.  I'm going to count psionics as magic users for this so I'd prefer to not use them.

dman11235

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Re: No Spellcasters!?!?!? Thats Absurd! [3.5]
« Reply #83 on: July 21, 2008, 05:57:50 AM »
Warlocks?  Does a drastically different form of magic count?

Also, about magic items...or will this be as mundane as possible?

Possibility: warlocks are the only way to get magic items, since no other magic exists.

EDIT: Do you just want to go with no magic what so ever?  No magical items, creatures, races, locations, etc.?  Or do you just not want the brokenness of daily magic?  Or something else?
« Last Edit: July 21, 2008, 06:32:11 AM by dman11235 »
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Re: No Spellcasters!?!?!? Thats Absurd! [3.5]
« Reply #84 on: July 21, 2008, 11:48:57 AM »
If it's a no/little magic items game, expect a lot of VoP characters to show up :P

Ow wait, that's BoED, crap  :wall


Since Incarnum has been OK'd I'm currently contemplating a Totemist, always wanted to try one :)

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atrocity05

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Re: No Spellcasters!?!?!? Thats Absurd! [3.5]
« Reply #85 on: July 21, 2008, 02:24:54 PM »
Alright, so as I understand it, the original point was to play a campaign where you don't have magic.  I don't think it was supposed to apply to outside sources.  So the way I'm playing it is that there is less magic in the world.  This would mean you could have some magic items, but try and limit it to either small magics or 2-3 awesome items.

I think I'm going to count warlocks as a caster class for this.  Mostly because their invocations are granted through someone else.  So, since I believe clerics are supposed to be banned, then so are warlocks.

JanusJones

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Re: No Spellcasters!?!?!? Thats Absurd! [3.5]
« Reply #86 on: July 21, 2008, 05:13:51 PM »
Okay.  I didn't find this thread until just now, and may I say . . .  :o

This is my BAG.  I mean it.  I don't cast.  I HATE casters.  I mean bone, straight HATE'em.  To me, optimizing a caster is like optimizing a tactical nuke - it takes little skill and it's total overkill.  It ends up making me feel GUILTY.  Plus, I find the flavor obnoxious.  I optimize non-casters for precisely that reason - why shoot something if you can embarrass and surprise it by dispatching it with a knife?  I make knives, gentlemen, and I make them WELL.

I can make a limitless healing battery and melee monster with no magic for this game if you need one.

I can make a ranged assault blaster capable of leveling a dragon in a round with nary a spell if you need one.

I can make an effectively invisible mobile single-target nuke without casting if you need one.

I can make a skill monkey super-speedy ninja par excellence without a DROP of mana if you need one.

I would LOVE - and I mean that, I mean FREAKING LOOOOOVE - to play in this game.  I can help ANYONE who needs it build a better character.  I make non-casters like Houdini did escapes.

PLEASE let me play.

If there's any of the above options that particularly appeal to you, let me know and I'll make that character.  I'm personally inclined to do the healer, myself, since it's the role most non-casters seem to have the most difficulty with.  The best thing will be that not only will I have UNLIMITED in-combat AND out-of-combat healing, I will also be a VERY effective melee combatant with some decent ranged support as well.

Seriously.  I was BORN for this.  PLEASE lemme in.   :love
« Last Edit: July 21, 2008, 05:19:29 PM by JanusJones »

JanusJones

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Re: No Spellcasters!?!?!? Thats Absurd! [3.5]
« Reply #87 on: July 21, 2008, 05:17:04 PM »
Incidental chargen questions:

Stats: Point buy?  How many?  Rolling?  What kind?
Flaws/Traits: Allowed?  Full 2/2, or is there a limit?
Sources: Any forbidden, or can I break out my dragon mags and dragonlance stuff?
Wealth: Standard, I assume?  Many fun things are possible with UMD, but I'll try to limit my use to suit the game.
LA: Can we do LA buyoff?
« Last Edit: July 21, 2008, 05:27:32 PM by JanusJones »

Stratovarius

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Re: No Spellcasters!?!?!? Thats Absurd! [3.5]
« Reply #88 on: July 21, 2008, 05:22:45 PM »
I would just point out that for someone who declares he hates casters, you have a strange attraction to the Dragonfire Adept, which would be considered a caster for this game type.

That being said, what are we looking for in regards to party alignment? I'm going to assume all good/neutral at the moment.

However, I will take you up on your offer for character building, if it pleases you. I'd like to base it around the Warchief class from the MiniHB, given that much of our abilities will be augmented by that. I'm thinking either Dragon Shaman or Marshal (or both, even) as entry into the class. As for feats, I'm thinking of being a Shock-Trooper based charger. Either that or just a reach weapon using tripper/knockback artist.
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dman11235

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Re: No Spellcasters!?!?!? Thats Absurd! [3.5]
« Reply #89 on: July 21, 2008, 05:49:45 PM »
Okay, so does anyone know of any race or any other class that grants darkness as a spell-like ability at least 1/day that is NOT a drow?  If not, I shall go with my monk that can heal better than a healer.  And trip.  It trips good.  Two attacks per trip, and a +insane trip modifier.  And high damage.
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atrocity05

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Re: No Spellcasters!?!?!? Thats Absurd! [3.5]
« Reply #90 on: July 21, 2008, 05:53:48 PM »
Yes, I would like everyone to be neutral/good.  (tried evil once, worst decision ever).  Standard wealth, 32 point buy.  Prefer books just because I can get them easier.  Nothing from the books I have banned as listed on the front page.  Don't remember if I banned it or not, but the BoEF is also off-limits.  (allowed that once, second worse decision ever).  Also, regarding the items, try and keep it to +2 or lower.  That should at least give a definite level.  I will allow LA buyoff.

Dan2

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Re: No Spellcasters!?!?!? Thats Absurd! [3.5]
« Reply #91 on: July 21, 2008, 06:01:06 PM »
To be fair, it was the same campaign for both decisions... :lol

dman11235

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Re: No Spellcasters!?!?!? Thats Absurd! [3.5]
« Reply #92 on: July 21, 2008, 06:08:12 PM »
What about 3.0 updates?  Specifically feats that I can link you to that have the entire feat?
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JanusJones

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Re: No Spellcasters!?!?!? Thats Absurd! [3.5]
« Reply #93 on: July 21, 2008, 06:15:14 PM »
@Strato:
Hmmm. Warcheif is sub-optimal unless you really trick it out right - best intro into it would be Marshal, not Dragon Shaman (Dragon Shaman is made of FAIL!).  I would do Marshal/Crusader for the healing, which will be an issue. The other problem with Warchief is the necessity for all of us to be of the same race and tribe, which may limit others in their build capacity.  Finally, the Warchief is awfully limited - he's basically a one-spell equivalent party buff who doesn't even get his own buff; in other words, he's not going to be a good addition to overall party power.  We'd be better off with someone who could do something with his action than with a passive buff.  Oh, and the Warchief's boost to Str is also an enhancement bonus, meaning you can't stack it with items.  Boo. 

Let's look at a knockback Dungeoncrasher for you, shall we?  Quite easy to get some serious damage output if you put your points in the right places.  Use Half-Minotaur from Dragon #313 for large size and good stat ups. Wield a Rope Dart from . . . err . . . #319, I think?  15 ft reach 2-handed weapon that works like a spiked chain; doubling reach for a large critter means 30 ft.  6 levels of Fighter so you can Dungeoncrash, Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, Combat Reflexes, Knockback, and then throw on Shock Trooper to make it really unfair.  Don't neglect to grab Mage Slayer and casters will no longer be a threat to the party when they're in-range. Finish with 4 levels of Crusader, which will add some nice healing effects and single-target slams to the mix.  You'll be a beast.

@dman:
Why do you need darkness?  If you're planning a HiPS build, use Shape Soulmeld - Fellmist Robe.  It gives you the concealment you need to hide and can't be seen through by pretty much anything - only dispelled or blown away.  This makes it superior to darkness (which demons can see through, daylight can dispel, etc.) for anyone doing a non-melee HiPs build.

What's your healing build?  I'm willing to bet it's Shadowsun Ninja-based, as mine is - let me know your plans so I can build to accommodate you.  I can make a pretty ridiculously effective healer, and may be able to improve yours.  We also want to be careful not to rely too much on movement-based attacks (bull rush, trip, grapple, etc.) in case of nasty freedom-of-movement critters.

THOUGHTS:

Here are some possible builds:

Bruce Lee: A Factotum with RIDICULOUS numbers of actions/round.  Able to blitz a room of baddies in seconds flat.  Also a skill-monkey and damage-dealer extraordinaire.  Good times.

The Meditant: One-hit, one-kill martial artist.  Beefy as balls (HUGE Con), always hits his target, always kills with one blow.  Very tankalicious.

Healbot: Limitless, at-will, in-combat or out-of-combat healing.  Heavy hitter to boot, doing very respectable damage, and supplemented by reasonable ranged attacks.

Charger: Revenant Blade, a Diopsid charged, a Thri-Kreen with Crescent Knives . . . chargers come in a variety of flavors, but all of them spell doom for enemies.

Soul Eater: A ka-jillion attacks per round that drain levels.  Very tough, very nasty, very effective.  The variant I'd play would look like an evil version of Pikachu and hit like a ton of bricks.  I could also make him effectively undetectable and give him Mindsight, so that he could be an ultimate party scout - sneak ahead, immediately spot enemies (and be able to report type and intellect), and silently report back to the team what to expect.

Circus Monkey: An uber-thrower.  Ridiculous numbers of ranged attacks per round.  Works best if evil, but as long as I can reflavor feats I won't have to be.  Stuns on hit, obliterates squadrons in a single round.  Really, REALLY devastating.

Dispeller: Without magic, able to dispel at will with a big bonus.  Haven't fleshed this out yet, but a very effective little build if done well.

Oh - no evil?  Can we just re-flavor evil stuff to be good?  'Cause, you know, evil is . . . BETTER.  Especially for non-casters.  I tend to play evil differently from other people - as in, not STUPID.  Somehow people all started assuming, at some point, that being evil meant being a psychotic murdering DICK all the time; me, I think of an evil person in a crowd of good guys as just having some friends who he doesn't always agree with, but he still likes hanging with 'em - strength in numbers and all that. I'm always a party player.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2008, 06:35:59 PM by JanusJones »

Midnight_v

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Re: No Spellcasters!?!?!? Thats Absurd! [3.5]
« Reply #94 on: July 21, 2008, 06:47:55 PM »
Quote
just re-flavor evil stuff to be good?  'Cause, you know, evil is . . . BETTER.  Especially for non-casters.  I tend to play evil differently from other people - as in, not STUPID.  Somehow people all started assuming, at some point, that being evil meant being a psychotic murdering DICK all the time; me, I think of an evil person in a crowd of good guys as just having some friends who he doesn't always agree with, but he still likes hanging with 'em - strength in numbers and all that. I'm always a party player.
I think I'd rather be Team evil too... but ultimately...

I respectfully submit my application to join i'm dying to see test barbarian 20 theories after writing that damn handbook I'm dying to see what it can really do... hmm...
gotta check the front page restrictions though.

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Stratovarius

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Re: No Spellcasters!?!?!? Thats Absurd! [3.5]
« Reply #95 on: July 21, 2008, 06:50:13 PM »
I think there's already a Dungeoncrasher floating around somewhere in here, actually, so I'd prefer to stay away from that option unless the person releases it.

At this point I'm just going to throw a few build ideas out there:

Ironsoul Forgemaster, although that sort of violates the magic items principles.
War Hulk battlefield controller
Bloodstorm Blade/Master Thrower for some rather interesting options
Shifter (race) into Warshaper/Nature's Warrior, etc, perhaps.
If nothing else works, I'll probably fall back to being a pure Crusader or Warblade.
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Midnight_v

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Re: No Spellcasters!?!?!? Thats Absurd! [3.5]
« Reply #96 on: July 21, 2008, 06:54:17 PM »
Well, I suppose I'll allow MoI.  But ToM is still out and the rest of the restrictions are layed out on the first post.  I'm going to count psionics as magic users for this so I'd prefer to not use them.

I have a question isn't the binder and the incarnum the same thing? I'm not trying to plead a case or anything I just ignored the incarnum thing altogether its the one system I know next to nothing about but isnt' it basically "binding", actually binding is kinda low magic really... but I digress...
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atrocity05

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Re: No Spellcasters!?!?!? Thats Absurd! [3.5]
« Reply #97 on: July 21, 2008, 07:08:18 PM »
Midnight, I thought about it, but they seemed to really want MoI so I was inclined to allow it but you are kind of right in the whole similarity to the warlock thing.  Hmmm...What say you other players?

JanusJones

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Re: No Spellcasters!?!?!? Thats Absurd! [3.5]
« Reply #98 on: July 21, 2008, 07:12:25 PM »
@Strato: Actually, doubling up on Dungeoncrashers is a GOOD idea - you can play catch with enemies.  If you both have some serious reach, one swats the enemy away . . . which provokes an Aoo from you, who swat said enemy back . . . which provokes an Aoo from him . . . you get the idea.  It's fun, and you can do it with JUST Knockback if you're feeling like 'crashing would be stepping on toes.

The BB offers a lot of craziness - I'm definitely a fan.  Since most people seem to be going for damage, though, I might skill monkey it up a little . . .

@Midnight: Binding is MUCH more limited than Incarnum, since it gives you a set of abilities as a package deal instead of letting you pick and choose independent abilities to complement one another.  Also, a lot of interesting low/no-magic style things are possible with Binding (Paimon to make Whirlwind Attack actually feasibly, etc.).

@Atrocity: Warlocks and DFAs aren't really casters, to be fair.  Style-wise, however, I see the point.  Incarnum is not really magic, though - it doesn't work the way spells do AT ALL, nor does Binding.  Both give abilities, yes, but Incarnum is basically just equipment and Binding is sort of like a class that grants templates.  DFA and Warlock abilities, however, duplicate spells - maybe just level-cap them at a 1~2 level dip, perhaps?  There are some psionic tricks that might require dipping into Psychic Warrior, too (like my Meditant build), but don't use powers at ALL - I think the bottom line you're looking for is "doesn't rely on spell-likes or spells as a main tactic."

Can anyone summarize the list of potential players and their proposed characters for me?

atrocity05

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Re: No Spellcasters!?!?!? Thats Absurd! [3.5]
« Reply #99 on: July 21, 2008, 07:28:42 PM »
Janus, I actually like what you just posted.  It gives pretty much the main gist of what I wanted.