Author Topic: No Spellcasters!?!?!? Thats Absurd! [3.5]  (Read 24003 times)

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SixthDeclension

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No Spellcasters!?!?!? Thats Absurd! [3.5]
« on: July 15, 2008, 04:13:20 PM »
Recently, in the Eberron Pbp game, there was a small discussion on playing a party with no full spellcasters. This kind of got the ball rolling in my head. Why not? So here I am. Can a non-spellcasting party survive a normal adventure?

After a few discussions, I have narrowed down the restrictions.
-No classes with spellcasting progressions that get more than 4th level spells
-Preferrably no spells at all
-No wands, scrolls or staffs to UMD
-No psionics/divine/arcane spellcasting
-Incarnum is up to the DM
-ToM is up to the DM
-ToB is good
-Optimize the hell out of it (Dont Die!)

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SixthDeclension
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« Last Edit: July 19, 2008, 12:49:55 AM by SixthDeclension »
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AfterCrescent

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Re: No Spellcasters!?!?!? Thats Absurd! [3.5]
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2008, 04:16:47 PM »
Good luck. I'll watch from the couch... err.. behind it... Bad experiences, you know ;) :couch

One thing I'd suggest, though, is to leave the Incarnum/ToM (since they are, at their heart alternate spellcasting systems) decision up to the DM (whichever lucky person you get :D)
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dman11235

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Re: No Spellcasters!?!?!? Thats Absurd! [3.5]
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2008, 04:19:04 PM »
Yo, I'm in for a player.  I'd prefer level 10 starting for this build, since that's when I can start healing, but I can start anywhere after 0.

And yes, this will be very possible.

One question, what about psionics like Psychic Warrior, who only gets up to level 6 powers (level 5 from psion (versatile) list)?  The build includes two levels.  I can work without it, it's just a lot harder to pull off (I need expansion).
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SixthDeclension

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Re: No Spellcasters!?!?!? Thats Absurd! [3.5]
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2008, 04:22:47 PM »
I guess that would be up to the DM, but having a build built on a power is kind of against the point  :smirk

And you are probably right about leaving ToM and Incarnum up to the DM. I had one as debatable, but will put both down as plausible now.
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Re: No Spellcasters!?!?!? Thats Absurd! [3.5]
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2008, 04:36:37 PM »
I just get a LOT better with the power.  As in, 14d8 more damage, and +10' reach.  Without it I've got 15' reach and 22d8 base unarmed damage (at level 20).  So.  What about PrCs?  Looking at FoZ and Warmind.  Level 5 powers.

But as I said, I can work without it, it's just a lot better with it.  On the plus side, I can use things that require I be medium.
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Re: No Spellcasters!?!?!? Thats Absurd! [3.5]
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2008, 04:52:27 PM »
Binders are fun (TM). Unfortunately I probably wouldn't have enough time for another game...
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Re: No Spellcasters!?!?!? Thats Absurd! [3.5]
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2008, 05:10:42 PM »
Mmh, not sure yet, but a couple of questions anyway:

1) Would spellcasters still exist as NPC's?
2) Would there be spellcasters and spellcasting monsters as enemies?
3) Would magic items be readily available?

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Re: No Spellcasters!?!?!? Thats Absurd! [3.5]
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2008, 05:11:35 PM »
I'm interested, but hesitant.  (My optimization-fu isn't nearly as good for non-casters)...

SixthDeclension

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Re: No Spellcasters!?!?!? Thats Absurd! [3.5]
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2008, 05:14:11 PM »
Mmh, not sure yet, but a couple of questions anyway:

1) Would spellcasters still exist as NPC's?
2) Would there be spellcasters and spellcasting monsters as enemies?
3) Would magic items be readily available?

~Bowen
1) Yes- everything normal except no magic for PCs
2) Hopefully
3) I would assume so. Just no wands, etc.

I'm interested, but hesitant.  (My optimization-fu isn't nearly as good for non-casters)...
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Re: No Spellcasters!?!?!? Thats Absurd! [3.5]
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2008, 05:23:43 PM »
Okay, sign me up :)

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Re: No Spellcasters!?!?!? Thats Absurd! [3.5]
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2008, 05:40:31 PM »
I'm thinking stuff like the Gatling Gun Tripper, the Melee Killer Gnome, and Jack B Quick are gonna be necessities here.  I don't seem to remember seeing many optimized archer builds, but that might just be cause I wasn't interested in those types of characters.

Personally, not sure I'm up to the challenge.  Even if I used the right build, I wouldn't know how to play it. o.o

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Re: No Spellcasters!?!?!? Thats Absurd! [3.5]
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2008, 05:52:55 PM »
I just get a LOT better with the power.  As in, 14d8 more damage, and +10' reach.  Without it I've got 15' reach and 22d8 base unarmed damage (at level 20).  So.  What about PrCs?  Looking at FoZ and Warmind.  Level 5 powers.

But as I said, I can work without it, it's just a lot better with it.  On the plus side, I can use things that require I be medium.

I'd be hesitant about that. After all, we're trying to go for builds that are level 4th powers or below, and preferably no spellcasting at all. Anything that relies on a power as the core of the build or uses classes that are in many ways primary casting classes is not really desired within the framework here.
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Re: No Spellcasters!?!?!? Thats Absurd! [3.5]
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2008, 08:15:45 PM »
Me scared of magic so me often winds up playing orc barb 1/ftr X. With lots of weapons. Different weapons. And high STR !

Can I wield a spiked chain and have inhuman reach pls ? And a greathammer ? And a Sungliin? And a harpoon? And a couple of greatswords ? With crystal of return on them ?

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Re: No Spellcasters!?!?!? Thats Absurd! [3.5]
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2008, 08:39:16 PM »
If I end up playing, I'll probably have a eternal blade build with warblade & swashbuckler

Int to damage type stuff...

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Re: No Spellcasters!?!?!? Thats Absurd! [3.5]
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2008, 08:48:53 PM »
I'm waiting till we get a DM to try and put a build together. Not really sure what I want to be as of yet.
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Re: No Spellcasters!?!?!? Thats Absurd! [3.5]
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2008, 09:53:09 PM »
I just wanted to respond to this from the other thread:
Quote from: Sinfire Titan
You've read my CO Diary on the Totemist, right? Imagine the fight against that White Dragon with the entire party active in it. Now imagine the DM having the dragon do something smart, like strafing breath weapons or spellcasting on the wing. We had no spellcasters in our group, no magic items (until Eisin started kicking ass and taking names), and were up against a CR 11 Dragon. Oh, and no one in the group had flight.

SCREWED!

Granted, our DM was an idiot and I managed to slay the damn thing with ease (even if it was a fluke), but that's besides the point. You need spellcasting against enemies like that just to get around easily.
I'm too lazy to embed the quotes manually, but I said that the game should run normally assuming the DM adjusts for the lack of PC magic. A DM tossing a smart (semi-optimized) dragon at a magic-less party needs to adjust the power of that dragon or at least adjust the surroundings. Same thing if NPCs and BBEGs can be full casters but the PCs can't. That's just poor management otherwise.

Quote
After a few discussions, I have narrowed down the restrictions.
-No classes with spellcasting progressions that get more than 4th level spells
I think 6th with limited lists might even be reasonable. This would allow the Bard, and a few of the oddball PrCs like Suel Arcanamach and Knight of the Weave.

I think one of the main problem with casters is the cherry picking of spells (or blanket access to everything). We're so used to the CO mindset that everything and anything is available, that there are magic marts with all available spells and scrolls, etc. I believe that the DM should be enforcing limitations on spell choice. That's just my little rant/aside though.


Oh, I'm also interested in playing, though that's kind of moot without a DM.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2008, 10:07:07 PM by Surreal »
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Re: No Spellcasters!?!?!? Thats Absurd! [3.5]
« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2008, 10:08:15 PM »
Agreed that some balancing needs to be done in a campaign like this.
As for a potential character, maybe a Dragonfire Adept to bring some battlefield control to the party or a guy who swings a sword, not sure what type yet, but probably involving ToB.

So, anyone who wants to DM?

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Re: No Spellcasters!?!?!? Thats Absurd! [3.5]
« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2008, 10:14:42 PM »
Things like the DFA/Binder/Warlock/Incarnum etc that fall into the Alternate Magic System category, we're kinda waiting for a DM to step forward and see which will be allowed. That's why they're in question marks in the first post. After all, I'd certainly categorize the Invoking classes as having greater than 4th level spells.
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Re: No Spellcasters!?!?!? Thats Absurd! [3.5]
« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2008, 10:23:11 PM »
Yeah, that's why I said "maybe" :)

Although I personally don't think classes like the Dragonfire Adept, Binder and Totemist are on par with casters in general.
I guess a consensus of what will and won't be allowed will have to be reached once we get a group together and find a DM :)

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Re: No Spellcasters!?!?!? Thats Absurd! [3.5]
« Reply #19 on: July 15, 2008, 10:33:48 PM »
I think the idea looks interesting.  I haven't really done anything board based before, but I wouldn't be against DM'ing this campaign as long as I know kind of what to expect.