Author Topic: The complete guide to IP proofing OR how to survive and enjoy your campaign.  (Read 61329 times)

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McPoyo

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The x state to y thread also exists here on BG, btw.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

Tyal-Kelvar

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Thing about leadership to get a cohort is there are other feats related to that purpose that might be interesting to look into.  For example the Dragon Cohort from Draconomicon, which allows a dragon cohort just like leadership feat would give but counts as ELC -3 from it's normal, though unfortunately it specifies the cohort has to be from a certain list, otherwise this might actually be usable.  A better example would thus be the Improved Cohort feat from Heroes of Battle, which increases cohort level by 1, though the question is whether that is worth burning a second feat just to IP proof.  Still, having a cleric or favoured soul bounding after your character with buffs is never a bad thing.  Even if it fails at fully IP proofing, there will be some minor IP proofing plus other buffs to make one more able to kill foes faster.

SeekingKnight

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My opinion:

If you need a cohort of 2 levels lower then you to help with IP proofing a bigger question is why aren't you doing it yourself?  To state it that DMs have varied rules on varied things but the base bones of it is Tier 1 and 2 classes use less resources then other classes.  3.x is set that it is limited by finite resources.  The more wisely you spend said resources the better off you are.

bearsarebrown

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The x state to y thread also exists here on BG, btw.
older version with worse formatting

Sunic_Flames

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Anything that relies on ECL rules automatically fails. Now certainly, getting a level - 2 tier 1 class for 1 feat is useful. Just not as useful as you might think for IP Proofing. Not to mention a lot of MCs nerf or ban Leadership. Again, general applicability rule.

This is also why I refuse to mention Factorums on principle. Just because a certain poster personally allows them to do all manner of weird things does not mean they inherently have access to those abilities. And before you try and Oberoni me, no Factorums cannot innately use not reprinted 3.0 skills, random setting specific stuff, Item Familiars (seriously, show me a DM who allows this and I'll show you a DM tripping on LCD), and other bullshit rules. No, I am not interested in discussing this further.
Smiting Imbeciles since 1985.

If you hear this music, run.

And don't forget:


There is no greater contribution than Hi Welcome.

Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

IP proofing and avoiding being CAPed OR - how to make characters relevant in the long term.

Friends don't let friends be Short Bus Hobos.

[spoiler]
Sunic may be more abrasive than sandpaper coated in chainsaws (not that its a bad thing, he really does know what he's talking about), but just posting in this thread without warning and telling him he's an asshole which, if you knew his past experiences on WotC and Paizo is flat-out uncalled for. Never mind the insults (which are clearly 4Chan-level childish). You say people like Sunic are the bane of the internet? Try looking at your own post and telling me you are better than him.

Here's a fun fact: You aren't. By a few leagues.
[/spoiler]

Sunic_Flames

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Added a few things.
Smiting Imbeciles since 1985.

If you hear this music, run.

And don't forget:


There is no greater contribution than Hi Welcome.

Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

IP proofing and avoiding being CAPed OR - how to make characters relevant in the long term.

Friends don't let friends be Short Bus Hobos.

[spoiler]
Sunic may be more abrasive than sandpaper coated in chainsaws (not that its a bad thing, he really does know what he's talking about), but just posting in this thread without warning and telling him he's an asshole which, if you knew his past experiences on WotC and Paizo is flat-out uncalled for. Never mind the insults (which are clearly 4Chan-level childish). You say people like Sunic are the bane of the internet? Try looking at your own post and telling me you are better than him.

Here's a fun fact: You aren't. By a few leagues.
[/spoiler]

Kajhera

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Anything that relies on ECL rules automatically fails. Now certainly, getting a level - 2 tier 1 class for 1 feat is useful. Just not as useful as you might think for IP Proofing. Not to mention a lot of MCs nerf or ban Leadership. Again, general applicability rule.

This is also why I refuse to mention Factorums on principle. Just because a certain poster personally allows them to do all manner of weird things does not mean they inherently have access to those abilities. And before you try and Oberoni me, no Factorums cannot innately use not reprinted 3.0 skills, random setting specific stuff, Item Familiars (seriously, show me a DM who allows this and I'll show you a DM tripping on LCD), and other bullshit rules. No, I am not interested in discussing this further.

... We use Iajutsu Focus, random setting specific stuff, and Item Familiars all the time, where's my hallucinogen?

(Hmm, are there any other not reprinted 3.0 skills that are useful?)
« Last Edit: February 17, 2011, 07:52:20 PM by Kajhera »

bearsarebrown

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This is also why I refuse to mention Factorums on principle. Just because a certain poster personally allows them to do all manner of weird things does not mean they inherently have access to those abilities. And before you try and Oberoni me, no Factorums cannot innately use not reprinted 3.0 skills, random setting specific stuff, Item Familiars (seriously, show me a DM who allows this and I'll show you a DM tripping on LCD), and other bullshit rules. No, I am not interested in discussing this further.
I'm confused by this. I assume you're talking about JaronK and I've yet to see something he does with the Factotum outside of RAW or RAI. And I've used Item Familiars in my personal games and on at least two PbPs.

Gods_Trick

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Obviously standards of use in play differ. I've yet to have a GM that allowed Leadership.

Bozwevial

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Obviously standards of use in play differ. I've yet to have a GM that allowed Leadership.
Leadership is a bit more blatant in its potential for abuse. Item Familiar, on the other hand, will probably go unnoticed, especially if your DM becomes fixated on the removal/destruction of the item as a potential balancing tool.

Kajhera

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Obviously standards of use in play differ. I've yet to have a GM that allowed Leadership.
Leadership is a bit more blatant in its potential for abuse. Item Familiar, on the other hand, will probably go unnoticed, especially if your DM becomes fixated on the removal/destruction of the item as a potential balancing tool.

I've lost one before, it was painful indeed, but epic nonetheless.

Erm, then I got it back rather easily but that was the artifact of repairing-things fault.

Endarire

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Items
Proof Against Transmutation (+5 Armor/Shield Property, Complete Arcane 142)
You're immune to any Transmutation effect that would change your shape not to your liking, like baleful polymorph, and disintegrate kills you at -10 instead of 0.  You can still be affected by polymorph or gaining weight from eating cake.

It's very expensive for its effects.

Spellblade (+6000G Weapon Property, Player's Guide to Faerun 120)
Consider also the Spellblade property (+6000G) from Player's Guide to Faerun 120.  You're IMMUNE to a spell that targets you, "not one that affects an area or creates an effect."

This applies to dispel magic, recipricol gyre (Spell Compendium 170), and the like.

Get this on your +1 darkwood gauntlets, your +1 armor spikes, your +1 boot blades, your +1 braid blades, and your actual weapons.

Spells & Powers
Beastland Ferocity (Bard1, Druid1, Spell Compendium 25)
Touched target can act normally while disabled or dying for 1 min/CL.  Couple with delay death for best effect.

Blindsight (Cleric3, Druid3, Spell Compendium 32)
Touched target gains 30' blindsight for 1 min/CL.

Chain Contingency (Sor/Wiz9, Tome and Blood 86)
The oft-forgotten greater version.  Works as contingency but activates up to 3 spells upon its trigger.

Contact Other Plane (HB4 (whatever that is), Sor/Wiz5, Player's Handbook 212)
One of the best Divinations for any class.  Careful about bugging a live DM about the future, though.

Contingency (Sor/Wiz6, Time6, Shugenja6, Player's Handbook 213)

Conviction (Cleric1, Spell Compendium 52)

Death Ward (Cleric4, Druid5, [Lots of Domains and Misc. Lists]4, Player's Handbook 217)

Delay Death (Cleric4, Spell Compendium 63)
Target can't die from HP damage, but can still be knocked out or staggered.  Works best with beastland ferocity.  IMMEDIATE action cast!  Close range!  1 round/CL duration!

Divination (Cleric4, Knowledge4, Oracle3, [Other Lists]4, Player's Handbook 224)
A poor man's contact other plane.  Still, be careful about bugging a live DM about the future.

Energy Immunity (Cleric6, Druid6, Sor/Wiz7, Wu Jen7, Spell Compendium 80)
Touched creature takes no HP damage from 1 energy type (acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic) for 24 hours.  You may be able to be affected by more than 1 casting of this at a time, and if so, bring on the fivefold energy immunity!

Fiery Discorporation (Kineticist5, Expanded Psionics Handbook 107)
If you pass a Will save (5+damage dealt), you "disappear" into a fire for a day instead of dying.

Foresight (Druid9, Knowledge9, Sor/Wiz9, Time8, [Other Lists]9, Player's Handbook 233)
Never be surprised again!  Regardless, be careful about bugging a live DM about the future!

Freedom of Movement (Cleric4, Druid4, Luck4, Time4, [Lotsa Domains & Misc. Lists]4 Player's Handbook 233)

Greater Blindsight (Cleric4, Druid4, Spell Compendium 32)
Touched target gains 60' blindsight for 1 min/CL.

Ignore IMarvinTPA's spell levels.  Spell Compendium specificially states it's Cleric4, Druid4, and there's no errata on this spell.

Greater Resistance (Bard4, Cleric4, Druid4, Sor/Wiz4, Spell Compendium 174)

Hide Life (Sor/Wiz9, Tome and Blood 81)
Costs 5000 XP (!), but so long as your pseudo-phylactery is intact, You Can't Die.

Lesser Spell Turning (Adept4, Sor/Wiz4, Mintiper's Chapbook on Wizards.com)
This version of spell turning turns only d4+1 spell levels.

Life Ward (Cleric4, Spell Compendium 131)
It's death ward versus positive energy.  Handy on Undead and anyone headed to the Positive Energy Plane.

Magic Circle Against Alignment (Cleric3, Blackguard3 OR Paladin3, Sor/Wiz3, [Lots of Domains and Misc. Lists]3, Player's Handbook 249)

Mass Conviction (Cleric3, Spell Compendium 52)

Mass Death Ward (Cleric8, Druid9, Spell Compendium 61)

Mass Shield of Faith (Cleric4, Spell Compendium 188)

Mind Blank (Protection8, Psion/Wilder8, Sor/Wiz8, [Various Domains & Misc. Lists]8, Player's Handbook 253 and  Expanded Psionics Handbook 119)

Personal Mind Blank (Psion/Wilder7, Psychic Warrior6 Expanded Psionics Handbook 118)

Protection From Alignment (Cleric1, Blackguard1 OR Paladin1, Sor/Wiz1, [Lots of Domains and Misc. Lists]1, Player's Handbook 266)

Recitation (Cleric4, Purification3, Spell Compendium 170)

See Invisibility (Bard3, Sor/Wiz2, Truth3, [Other Lists]2 or 3, Player's Handbook 275)

Spell Turning (Luck7, Magic7, Sor/Wiz7, [Some Other Lists]7, Player's Handbook 282)

Superior Resistance (Bard6, Cleric6, Druid6, Sor/Wiz6, Spell Compendium 174)

True Seeing (Cleric5, Druid7, Psion/Wilder5, Sor/Wiz6, Wu Jen7, Player's Handbook 298 and Expanded Psionics Handbook 139)
See everything as it really is, except for nonmagical stealthers and disguised things.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2011, 06:51:06 PM by Endarire »
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

Endarire

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Still needs martial adept abilities and a fuller list of psionic powers, like sense danger (Magic of Eberron 106), and misc. abilities like Uncanny Dodge.
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

McPoyo

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I allow leadership and item familiars, but I allow everything because no one in my groups has CO anything remotely approaching mine. However, I've only played in one game where Cloistered Clerics, item familiars, psionics, incarnum, or weapons of legacy. None have allowed OA, anything not-a-spell that was unreprinted 3.0 besides the arms and equipment guide and even then the spells gained a level, or iajutsu focus. Four DMs, no contact with each other, nearly half a state apart. I'll second Sunic's stance on not making a section to discuss item familiars, IF, or factotums for precisely that reason, since outside of my games, none of the players in any of those games have had access to those things under their other GMs either. It's not particularly uncommon.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

Esgath

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Sunic_Flames, you mentioned once that your characters were nearly untouchable because they had multiple contingencies on them. How do you do that and what do you prepare with them, with what clause?
From the top of my head I can just think of some teleport spell, when the character gets attacked. Besides, is there any way a caster with evocation as a banned school can do anything about that?

snakeman830

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I'd say Factotums shouldn't be excluded just because Sunic doesn't like them (which is the entire reason he refuses to have anything to do with them, not any mechanics).  They do have access to Sorc/Wiz spells of 7th level and lower, although nowhere near the volume that a true caster has as well as the useful ability to add their INT modifier to saves when they think it's necessary, not to mention they usually have high Initiative.  This isn't refrencing anything but the Factotum itself (not skills, magic items, or anything else).  They can do a bit of IP proofing themselves.


Of course, the save-replacing manuvers from Diamond Mind must be mentioned, if only for the fact that they are typically higher than your save and, more importantly, you don't auto-fail on a 1.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2011, 12:51:25 PM by snakeman830 »
I am constantly amazed by how many DM's ban Tomb of Battle.  The book doesn't even exist!

Quotes:[spoiler]
By yes, she means no.
That explains so much about my life.
hiicantcomeupwithacharacterthatisntaghostwhyisthatamijustretardedorsomething
Why would you even do this? It hurts my eyes and looks like you ate your keyboard before suffering an attack of explosive diarrhea.
[/spoiler]

If using Genesis to hide your phylactry, set it at -300 degrees farenheit.  See how do-gooders fare with a liquid atmosphere.

Solo

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Sunic_Flames, you mentioned once that your characters were nearly untouchable because they had multiple contingencies on them. How do you do that and what do you prepare with them, with what clause?
From the top of my head I can just think of some teleport spell, when the character gets attacked. Besides, is there any way a caster with evocation as a banned school can do anything about that?
Shadow Evocation, Greater.

Craft Contingent Spell

"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down!"

The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.

Kajhera

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Sunic_Flames, you mentioned once that your characters were nearly untouchable because they had multiple contingencies on them. How do you do that and what do you prepare with them, with what clause?
From the top of my head I can just think of some teleport spell, when the character gets attacked. Besides, is there any way a caster with evocation as a banned school can do anything about that?
Shadow Evocation, Greater.

Craft Contingent Spell

Gods bless the Illusion school ... it has a solution for everything eventually.

Unfortunately when I have to ban 4 classes they tend to wind up Evocation, Enchantment, Necromancy, Illusion. Are there better choices? I adore Conjuration and Transmutation both but I am very reluctant to forfeit Abjuration. I guess if I went Shadowcraft Mage I could get a lot of Conjuration back, but in the rare case I don't want to play a wizard who's a gnome illusionist.

Or should I not be trying to take both Focused Specialist and Incantatrix?

Sunic_Flames

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Sunic_Flames, you mentioned once that your characters were nearly untouchable because they had multiple contingencies on them. How do you do that and what do you prepare with them, with what clause?
From the top of my head I can just think of some teleport spell, when the character gets attacked. Besides, is there any way a caster with evocation as a banned school can do anything about that?

Without knowing precisely what incident you are referring to I have no idea. Can you elaborate more? Because there's many possible ways you can do that. Or did you mean Contingencies and not contingencies?
Smiting Imbeciles since 1985.

If you hear this music, run.

And don't forget:


There is no greater contribution than Hi Welcome.

Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

IP proofing and avoiding being CAPed OR - how to make characters relevant in the long term.

Friends don't let friends be Short Bus Hobos.

[spoiler]
Sunic may be more abrasive than sandpaper coated in chainsaws (not that its a bad thing, he really does know what he's talking about), but just posting in this thread without warning and telling him he's an asshole which, if you knew his past experiences on WotC and Paizo is flat-out uncalled for. Never mind the insults (which are clearly 4Chan-level childish). You say people like Sunic are the bane of the internet? Try looking at your own post and telling me you are better than him.

Here's a fun fact: You aren't. By a few leagues.
[/spoiler]

Esgath

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From this thread.

I have too many contingencies to die. I've seen others die to blatant stupidity and dumb luck though.

I thought it meant the spell, or this feat that Solo posted.

Due to my inexperience with playing D&D I haven't got a clue what works and what doesn't. Also I didn't get the last sentence, I am not a native speaker.

edit: Wow ok, I just realised that thread was nearly 3 years old :D
« Last Edit: February 18, 2011, 03:33:39 PM by Esgath »