Author Topic: The complete guide to IP proofing OR how to survive and enjoy your campaign.  (Read 61328 times)

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Lycanthromancer

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Re: The complete guide to IP proofing OR how to survive and enjoy your campaign.
« Reply #180 on: February 26, 2011, 06:38:47 PM »
there you go, trying to be rational with Sunic -- have you not been paying attention to this guy?  What made you think rationality and congeniality were among whatever redeeming qualities he might have?  Despite whatever virtues he actually may have, he is incapable of anything resembling good-faith due-diligence when it comes to social interaction.

Whether or not I try and be rational, polite, and congenial has absolutely nothing to do with how the other person responds. If I have something to say, I'll say it in a rational, polite and congenial manner because I am (or try to be) a rational, polite and congenial person.

I only spoke up again in this thread because it was my original suggestion in the first place and I felt a bit of responsibility for it. I also am a bit anal about the proper labeling of logical fallacy. I had something to say, and I endeavored to say it in a manner that feeds no trolls.
What fallacy was in my post? Nearly everything he says is full of bile and trolling, no matter how useful it might otherwise be. I have a lot of patience, but he's worn it down to nothing, and I don't respect people who hold no respect for anyone else (including me). Ergo, I hold no respect for him or the things he says.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2011, 06:40:30 PM by Lycanthromancer »
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

wotmaniac

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Re: The complete guide to IP proofing OR how to survive and enjoy your campaign.
« Reply #181 on: February 26, 2011, 06:45:35 PM »
... such as to say that it simply isn't worth all the dumpster-diving required to actually get to anything substantive he might say?

[spoiler]
If you stop ignoring 289 pages telling what the intent is to stretch "more power" in your own god complexion of your interpretation trumps all to cover ability adjustments from aging then I will ignore a quarter page of rules that exist within a sidebar.
I think in this case the grammar is less important than whether the Str and Dex bonus provided to your created undead scales.

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bearsarebrown

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Re: The complete guide to IP proofing OR how to survive and enjoy your campaign.
« Reply #182 on: February 26, 2011, 06:47:38 PM »
Just leave it all the fuck alone. Sunic is mean, we know.  :beathorse

wotmaniac

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Re: The complete guide to IP proofing OR how to survive and enjoy your campaign.
« Reply #183 on: February 26, 2011, 06:54:21 PM »
Just leave it all the fuck alone. Sunic is mean, we know.  :beathorse
:hide

[spoiler]
If you stop ignoring 289 pages telling what the intent is to stretch "more power" in your own god complexion of your interpretation trumps all to cover ability adjustments from aging then I will ignore a quarter page of rules that exist within a sidebar.
I think in this case the grammar is less important than whether the Str and Dex bonus provided to your created undead scales.

Greenbound Summoning RAI
Expanded Gestalt
More Savage Progressions[/spoiler]
Report any wrongs I have done here.

genuine

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Re: The complete guide to IP proofing OR how to survive and enjoy your campaign.
« Reply #184 on: February 26, 2011, 07:03:25 PM »
there you go, trying to be rational with Sunic -- have you not been paying attention to this guy?  What made you think rationality and congeniality were among whatever redeeming qualities he might have?  Despite whatever virtues he actually may have, he is incapable of anything resembling good-faith due-diligence when it comes to social interaction.

Whether or not I try and be rational, polite, and congenial has absolutely nothing to do with how the other person responds. If I have something to say, I'll say it in a rational, polite and congenial manner because I am (or try to be) a rational, polite and congenial person.

I only spoke up again in this thread because it was my original suggestion in the first place and I felt a bit of responsibility for it. I also am a bit anal about the proper labeling of logical fallacy. I had something to say, and I endeavored to say it in a manner that feeds no trolls.
What fallacy was in my post? Nearly everything he says is full of bile and trolling, no matter how useful it might otherwise be. I have a lot of patience, but he's worn it down to nothing, and I don't respect people who hold no respect for anyone else (including me). Ergo, I hold no respect for him or the things he says.

It wasn't a terribly egregious fallacy. Look at the difference between these two statements: 1) He is a jerk, so nothing he says is worth listening to.
2) He is a jerk, so it's not worth the effort to listen to him.

The first says that because he is a jerk then nothing good comes out of his mouth. This is fallacious, as even jerks can have something true/accurate/good to say. Specifically, it is the ad hominem fallacy - because the speaker is bad, unlikable, etc. you don't have to respond to the arguments. The second is not fallacious, as you're not discounting that truth may possibly fall from his lips; instead you're saying that the worth of those truths doesn't justify wading through the bile. I'm sure you can see that the line can be incredibly fine. It's even possible to say 1) but mean 2).

Now, this isn't as fallacious as some strawmen arguments I've seen (i.e. "Sure, that developer from Wizards said that a dragonborn warforged can have a plating feat, but do you really want to trust the guy who designed the CW Samurai?), but it's still right there on the line.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2011, 07:41:49 PM by genuine »

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: The complete guide to IP proofing OR how to survive and enjoy your campaign.
« Reply #185 on: February 26, 2011, 07:11:13 PM »
That's not actually a strawman - it's an ad hominem instead
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wotmaniac

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Re: The complete guide to IP proofing OR how to survive and enjoy your campaign.
« Reply #186 on: February 26, 2011, 07:23:47 PM »
That's not actually a strawman - it's an ad hominem instead
'tis true

[spoiler]
If you stop ignoring 289 pages telling what the intent is to stretch "more power" in your own god complexion of your interpretation trumps all to cover ability adjustments from aging then I will ignore a quarter page of rules that exist within a sidebar.
I think in this case the grammar is less important than whether the Str and Dex bonus provided to your created undead scales.

Greenbound Summoning RAI
Expanded Gestalt
More Savage Progressions[/spoiler]
Report any wrongs I have done here.

Lycanthromancer

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Re: The complete guide to IP proofing OR how to survive and enjoy your campaign.
« Reply #187 on: February 26, 2011, 07:32:39 PM »
there you go, trying to be rational with Sunic -- have you not been paying attention to this guy?  What made you think rationality and congeniality were among whatever redeeming qualities he might have?  Despite whatever virtues he actually may have, he is incapable of anything resembling good-faith due-diligence when it comes to social interaction.

Whether or not I try and be rational, polite, and congenial has absolutely nothing to do with how the other person responds. If I have something to say, I'll say it in a rational, polite and congenial manner because I am (or try to be) a rational, polite and congenial person.

I only spoke up again in this thread because it was my original suggestion in the first place and I felt a bit of responsibility for it. I also am a bit anal about the proper labeling of logical fallacy. I had something to say, and I endeavored to say it in a manner that feeds no trolls.
What fallacy was in my post? Nearly everything he says is full of bile and trolling, no matter how useful it might otherwise be. I have a lot of patience, but he's worn it down to nothing, and I don't respect people who hold no respect for anyone else (including me). Ergo, I hold no respect for him or the things he says.

It wasn't a terribly egregious fallacy. Look at the difference between these two statements: 1) He is a jerk, so nothing he says is worth listening to.
2) He is a jerk, so it's not worth the effort to listen to him.

The first says that because he is a jerk then nothing good comes out of his mouth. This is fallacious, as even jerks can have something true/accurate/good to say. Specifically, it is the strawman fallacy - because the speaker is bad, unlikable, etc. you don't have to respond to the arguments. The second is not fallacious, as you're not discounting that truth may possibly fall from his lips; instead you're saying that the worth of those truths doesn't justify wading through the bile. I'm sure you can see that the line can be incredibly fine. It's even possible to say 1) but mean 2).

Now, this isn't as fallacious as some strawmen arguments I've seen (i.e. "Sure, that developer from Wizards said that a dragonborn warforged can have a plating feat, but do you really want to trust the guy who designed the CW Samurai?), but it's still right there on the line.

Except I said I didn't respect him or anything he said. I never said there wasn't anything useful there. With the way he presents information, there is no respect shown, so there is no respect given.

I believe you may have your fallacy-wires crossed a bit.
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

genuine

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Re: The complete guide to IP proofing OR how to survive and enjoy your campaign.
« Reply #188 on: February 26, 2011, 07:40:51 PM »
That's not actually a strawman - it's an ad hominem instead

 :banghead Now I feel like an idiot. Thanks ML, for pointing that out. I'd call it a brain fart except it wasn't.

Sunic_Flames

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Re: The complete guide to IP proofing OR how to survive and enjoy your campaign.
« Reply #189 on: February 26, 2011, 07:41:15 PM »
Ignoring more Fail.

I refuse unworkable suggestions, I do not refuse suggestions. For example, before the Fail train derailed, there were quite a few things by Endarire, and even Lycan (who is quickly becoming a high level fuckwit) that would have been added.

And yes, this thread should be locked. It's not serving any purpose but encouraging people to whine and flail about me. While admittedly no one is doing so at this exact moment, that is liable to quickly change.
You give respect to get respect, and you spew vitriol to get it in return.

This is obviously a lesson you eschewed like you do anything you don't agree with.

And you are most certainly a person I no longer respect in any way shape or form, and your opinion of me means even less. Disagreeing with others' ideas is fine, but you're quite probably tied for the rudest person I've ever met online, given the sheer amount of vitriol and ignorance of common courtesies (and that's common courtesies; y'know, the kind that is generally received from the 'mouthbreathing fuckwits' you think are so unpleasant) you spew in nearly every post I've read from you.

Now that I've said that, I'm through. Flame all you want, Sunic. I'm out.
Paizil Fallacy.

Bye Welcome
Assuming this is what you're talking about, that's actually a strawman fallacy (Sunic is a jerk, ergo nothing he says is worth listening to), not Paizil. As I understand it, Paizil fallacy is listening to fact and statistics and claiming that it is just opinion.

It's Paizil Fallacy, because he claims the reason I did not listen to it was because I did not agree with it. And also that the problem with the things being ignored is merely that I disagree with them and not that they are objectively wrong. While he did not use the o word, everyone knows full well what he meant, just as when you say darn or heck, everyone knows what you really mean.

Quote
It's too bad, really. I originally suggested this handbook as an educational device. But instead of discussing why disguise is fail, you just complained about flailing and left. Personally, I agree with you about the disguise issue being to-easily-beatable to work well. But looking over the thread I'm seeing questions about its interactions with spot, whether Knowledge skills really help, and what other methods overcome it.

I did mention why Disguise was fail. At least a half dozen times. The fuckwit army ignored my repeated pointing this out, and why, in favor of wanking off to some goddamned Maugs some more.

Quote
But instead of responding to a polite question (i.e. isn't it valid at low levels at least? You know, before true sight is common or easy...), you just got pissy and gave up. For that matter, you could have given your answer and ignored further discussion of it. You could have even included a FAIL-Post, where you list attempts at IPing that fail, and why they fail, so that people don't just keep posting about factotums and disguise.



Things that are valid at low levels only are not valid, else we wouldn't so viciously mock Fighters, now would we? And the fuckwit army ignored my posts right there, so what makes you think they'd listen to one at the beginning of the thread? Exactly, they wouldn't.

As for respect, non fuckwits can has it, and the rest can fuck off. Unfortunately, at the current time, non fuckwits are in a minority. Even so all you have to do is not fail at life to be treated decently.

Non complete list of people here that are not fuckwits: bearsarebrown, BeholderSlayer, Dictum Mortum, Ithamar, Kajhera, RelentlessImp, SeekingKnight, Shiki, Solo.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2011, 07:46:05 PM by Sunic_Flames »
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If you hear this music, run.

And don't forget:


There is no greater contribution than Hi Welcome.

Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

IP proofing and avoiding being CAPed OR - how to make characters relevant in the long term.

Friends don't let friends be Short Bus Hobos.

[spoiler]
Sunic may be more abrasive than sandpaper coated in chainsaws (not that its a bad thing, he really does know what he's talking about), but just posting in this thread without warning and telling him he's an asshole which, if you knew his past experiences on WotC and Paizo is flat-out uncalled for. Never mind the insults (which are clearly 4Chan-level childish). You say people like Sunic are the bane of the internet? Try looking at your own post and telling me you are better than him.

Here's a fun fact: You aren't. By a few leagues.
[/spoiler]

SeekingKnight

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Re: The complete guide to IP proofing OR how to survive and enjoy your campaign.
« Reply #190 on: February 26, 2011, 07:42:21 PM »
Lock thread please.  Sunic is not doing it and discussing him on a handbook thread is dumb.

Sunic_Flames

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Re: The complete guide to IP proofing OR how to survive and enjoy your campaign.
« Reply #191 on: February 26, 2011, 07:46:55 PM »
Lock thread please.  Sunic is not doing it and discussing him on a handbook thread is dumb.

How the hell am I supposed to lock it?
Smiting Imbeciles since 1985.

If you hear this music, run.

And don't forget:


There is no greater contribution than Hi Welcome.

Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

IP proofing and avoiding being CAPed OR - how to make characters relevant in the long term.

Friends don't let friends be Short Bus Hobos.

[spoiler]
Sunic may be more abrasive than sandpaper coated in chainsaws (not that its a bad thing, he really does know what he's talking about), but just posting in this thread without warning and telling him he's an asshole which, if you knew his past experiences on WotC and Paizo is flat-out uncalled for. Never mind the insults (which are clearly 4Chan-level childish). You say people like Sunic are the bane of the internet? Try looking at your own post and telling me you are better than him.

Here's a fun fact: You aren't. By a few leagues.
[/spoiler]

Anarchy_Kanya

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Re: The complete guide to IP proofing OR how to survive and enjoy your campaign.
« Reply #192 on: February 26, 2011, 07:50:23 PM »
Lock thread please.  Sunic is not doing it and discussing him on a handbook thread is dumb.

How the hell am I supposed to lock it?
Not you, stupid, the mode-... Ooohhh, I see what you did there. :smirk

Quote
Non complete list of people here that are not fuckwits: bearsarebrown, BeholderSlayer, Dictum Mortum, Ithamar, Kajhera, RelentlessImp, SeekingKnight, Shiki, Solo.
You didn't include yourself. Does that mean you're a fuckwit? ???
« Last Edit: February 26, 2011, 07:57:01 PM by Anarchy_Kanya »
Fly Away With Me!
We Are Angels! Anarchy!
[spoiler]
Once my 12 level VoP exalted Monk beat a Horned Devil. ALONE! The only dmg the devil could do to me was from one spell-like that he menaged to shoot out before he droped. :D
wow... you are the epitome of trolling...

Non complete list of people here that are not fuckwits: bearsarebrown, BeholderSlayer, Dictum Mortum, Ithamar, Kajhera, RelentlessImp, SeekingKnight, Shiki, Solo.
You didn't include yourself. Does that mean you're a fuckwit? ???

Hi Welcome
Then I can assume the answer to the question is "Yes".
[/spoiler]
Making Fighters special - lil project by me.

Sunic_Flames

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Re: The complete guide to IP proofing OR how to survive and enjoy your campaign.
« Reply #193 on: February 26, 2011, 08:04:06 PM »
Lock thread please.  Sunic is not doing it and discussing him on a handbook thread is dumb.

How the hell am I supposed to lock it?
Not you, stupid, the mode-... Ooohhh, I see what you did there. :smirk

Quote
Non complete list of people here that are not fuckwits: bearsarebrown, BeholderSlayer, Dictum Mortum, Ithamar, Kajhera, RelentlessImp, SeekingKnight, Shiki, Solo.
You didn't include yourself. Does that mean you're a fuckwit? ???

Hi Welcome
Smiting Imbeciles since 1985.

If you hear this music, run.

And don't forget:


There is no greater contribution than Hi Welcome.

Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

IP proofing and avoiding being CAPed OR - how to make characters relevant in the long term.

Friends don't let friends be Short Bus Hobos.

[spoiler]
Sunic may be more abrasive than sandpaper coated in chainsaws (not that its a bad thing, he really does know what he's talking about), but just posting in this thread without warning and telling him he's an asshole which, if you knew his past experiences on WotC and Paizo is flat-out uncalled for. Never mind the insults (which are clearly 4Chan-level childish). You say people like Sunic are the bane of the internet? Try looking at your own post and telling me you are better than him.

Here's a fun fact: You aren't. By a few leagues.
[/spoiler]

Anarchy_Kanya

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Re: The complete guide to IP proofing OR how to survive and enjoy your campaign.
« Reply #194 on: February 26, 2011, 08:04:59 PM »
Lock thread please.  Sunic is not doing it and discussing him on a handbook thread is dumb.

How the hell am I supposed to lock it?
Not you, stupid, the mode-... Ooohhh, I see what you did there. :smirk

Quote
Non complete list of people here that are not fuckwits: bearsarebrown, BeholderSlayer, Dictum Mortum, Ithamar, Kajhera, RelentlessImp, SeekingKnight, Shiki, Solo.
You didn't include yourself. Does that mean you're a fuckwit? ???

Hi Welcome
Then I can assume the answer to the question is "Yes".
Fly Away With Me!
We Are Angels! Anarchy!
[spoiler]
Once my 12 level VoP exalted Monk beat a Horned Devil. ALONE! The only dmg the devil could do to me was from one spell-like that he menaged to shoot out before he droped. :D
wow... you are the epitome of trolling...

Non complete list of people here that are not fuckwits: bearsarebrown, BeholderSlayer, Dictum Mortum, Ithamar, Kajhera, RelentlessImp, SeekingKnight, Shiki, Solo.
You didn't include yourself. Does that mean you're a fuckwit? ???

Hi Welcome
Then I can assume the answer to the question is "Yes".
[/spoiler]
Making Fighters special - lil project by me.

Solo

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Re: The complete guide to IP proofing OR how to survive and enjoy your campaign.
« Reply #195 on: February 26, 2011, 08:09:02 PM »
Doesn't the word "non-complete" imply...

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The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.

Lycanthromancer

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Re: The complete guide to IP proofing OR how to survive and enjoy your campaign.
« Reply #196 on: February 26, 2011, 08:11:25 PM »
_
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

Anarchy_Kanya

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Re: The complete guide to IP proofing OR how to survive and enjoy your campaign.
« Reply #197 on: February 26, 2011, 08:14:29 PM »
Doesn't the word "non-complete" imply...
What? That he don't remember any other non-fuckwits? He should remember himself, right?

_
Um... What?
Fly Away With Me!
We Are Angels! Anarchy!
[spoiler]
Once my 12 level VoP exalted Monk beat a Horned Devil. ALONE! The only dmg the devil could do to me was from one spell-like that he menaged to shoot out before he droped. :D
wow... you are the epitome of trolling...

Non complete list of people here that are not fuckwits: bearsarebrown, BeholderSlayer, Dictum Mortum, Ithamar, Kajhera, RelentlessImp, SeekingKnight, Shiki, Solo.
You didn't include yourself. Does that mean you're a fuckwit? ???

Hi Welcome
Then I can assume the answer to the question is "Yes".
[/spoiler]
Making Fighters special - lil project by me.

Lycanthromancer

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« Last Edit: February 26, 2011, 08:28:39 PM by Lycanthromancer »
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

Sunic_Flames

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Re: The complete guide to IP proofing OR how to survive and enjoy your campaign.
« Reply #199 on: February 26, 2011, 08:36:37 PM »
Right... well Jarona, you done failing yet?
Smiting Imbeciles since 1985.

If you hear this music, run.

And don't forget:


There is no greater contribution than Hi Welcome.

Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

IP proofing and avoiding being CAPed OR - how to make characters relevant in the long term.

Friends don't let friends be Short Bus Hobos.

[spoiler]
Sunic may be more abrasive than sandpaper coated in chainsaws (not that its a bad thing, he really does know what he's talking about), but just posting in this thread without warning and telling him he's an asshole which, if you knew his past experiences on WotC and Paizo is flat-out uncalled for. Never mind the insults (which are clearly 4Chan-level childish). You say people like Sunic are the bane of the internet? Try looking at your own post and telling me you are better than him.

Here's a fun fact: You aren't. By a few leagues.
[/spoiler]