Author Topic: A Guide to Proper Scouting  (Read 34348 times)

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Bloody Initiate

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Re: A Guide to Proper Scouting
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2011, 08:58:59 AM »
The Vecna-Blooded template grants... immunity to divinations I think?

Yes it does... and better!

It lets you know the name, location, and description of anyone who targets you with a divination.

I was thrilled with that ability when I first read it.

If you are capable of teleporting and attacking hard and fast, then you can kill a lot of nosy people.
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Re: A Guide to Proper Scouting
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2011, 10:49:48 AM »
DotU has a PrC that, at level 9, becomes hard to pin down with any non-sight detection methods. You will seem to be within a point 30ft from where you really are.

Of course, it requires nine levels of suck and is therefore not worth it unless you're gestalting or something, but might be worth a mention.

The Cavestalker. The ability is called Void In Space, and essentially does what the Darkstalker feat does, although not as good. But nullifying Blind-fight is pretty nice.

Also, @JaronK, the skill trick Listen to This is really handy for scouting types.

Except, RAW, it does affect mindsight. RAI, clearly not, but RAW I think it does.

GrokThis

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Re: A Guide to Proper Scouting
« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2011, 01:03:28 PM »
DotU has a PrC that, at level 9, becomes hard to pin down with any non-sight detection methods. You will seem to be within a point 30ft from where you really are.

Of course, it requires nine levels of suck and is therefore not worth it unless you're gestalting or something, but might be worth a mention.

The Cavestalker. The ability is called Void In Space, and essentially does what the Darkstalker feat does, although not as good. But nullifying Blind-fight is pretty nice.

Also, @JaronK, the skill trick Listen to This is really handy for scouting types.

Except, RAW, it does affect mindsight. RAI, clearly not, but RAW I think it does.

No. Drow of the Underdark, page 70: "...This effectively makes you undetectable to blindsense, blindsight, and tremorsense." Emphasis mine. It says nothing about mindsight, or even scent. The Darkstalker feat includes scent as well. In retrospect, both abilities are about equal.Void In Space lets you only need to succeed on a move silent check to become effectively invisible to creatures with those abilities, plus nullifying Blind-fight, but like you said, there's 9 levels of suck. Darkstalker makes it so you need to succeed on both hide/move silent, but you get to flank creatures with all around vision. Yay for rogues!

« Last Edit: February 17, 2011, 01:12:56 PM by GrokThis »

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: A Guide to Proper Scouting
« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2011, 05:08:47 PM »
RAW, I think it works against more than just blindsense, blindsight and tremorsense.  You're indetectable to those senses.  Other nonvisual senses can detect you, but think you're 30' off from where you are.

Quote
When you reach 9th level, your attunement to the particular atmosphere of the Underdark allows you to warp the sounds, scents, and vibrations you give off, making you invisible to creatures that rely on senses other than sight to detect others. This effectively makes you undetectable to blindsense, blindsight, and tremorsense. You still make noises and vibrations (though a successful Move Silently check can mask the sounds), but creatures that cannot see are incapable of determining your true location and believe that you are 30 feet in a random direction from where you are actually located.

In addition, this ability nullifies the effect of the Blind-Fight feat against you.
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Amadi

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Re: A Guide to Proper Scouting
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2011, 06:07:22 PM »
Indeed, that is how I read it too, TML. Of course, the flavour is completely against it, but RAW it would stop anything except sight. RAW it even stops people from pinpointing you through listen if they cannot see you.

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Re: A Guide to Proper Scouting
« Reply #25 on: February 18, 2011, 06:33:25 PM »
The Vecna-Blooded template grants... immunity to divinations I think?

Yes it does... and better!

It lets you know the name, location, and description of anyone who targets you with a divination.

I was thrilled with that ability when I first read it.

If you are capable of teleporting and attacking hard and fast, then you can kill a lot of nosy people.

Where does one find Vecna Blooded btw? Cause that sounds like a great catch.

I'd like to add that the Psychic Rogue, from the Mind's Eye articles, makes for a great scout...especially using Expanded Knowledge to add powers like Glorytongue to your list...cause who doesn't want a 100ft tongue thats practically its own creature? It allows for touch spell or power delivery which means Dimensional Pocket, a 1st lvl psychic rogue power, allows you to steal trinkets and items via the tongue.

I will also add that obtain familiar with some of the options from Dragon, such as the Fly Familiar, really make great scout assistants and spies.

Glorytongue: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/wn/20020925a
Psychic Rogue: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b
« Last Edit: February 18, 2011, 06:37:23 PM by Shigure »
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Re: A Guide to Proper Scouting
« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2011, 09:43:30 PM »
First, thanks for this very useful guide. I have however one question:


Kobolds:  Especially with the Web Enhancement, Kobolds have a lot of useful stealth abilities to work with (Tiny size when needed can be great!).  Of course you can do the Dragonwrought Kobold cheese, but that will rapidly send you towards "God who felt like doing stealth today" instead of a character that feels like a scout.  The Kobold Domain is great for Clerics who want to play scout.

Which web enhancement?

Shiki

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Re: A Guide to Proper Scouting
« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2011, 09:47:03 PM »
First, thanks for this very useful guide. I have however one question:


Kobolds:  Especially with the Web Enhancement, Kobolds have a lot of useful stealth abilities to work with (Tiny size when needed can be great!).  Of course you can do the Dragonwrought Kobold cheese, but that will rapidly send you towards "God who felt like doing stealth today" instead of a character that feels like a scout.  The Kobold Domain is great for Clerics who want to play scout.

Which web enhancement?

That be it, I guess.
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Re: A Guide to Proper Scouting
« Reply #28 on: February 20, 2011, 04:03:07 AM »
ghostwalk options are useful to note as far as gaining ghost and ghost-like qualities. different ruleset from standard ghosts, so mileage will vary.
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bkdubs123

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Re: A Guide to Proper Scouting
« Reply #29 on: February 20, 2011, 04:08:09 AM »
Also, Ghostwalk, while released after 3.5 debuted, was still published as a 3.0 book. Whoopses.

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: A Guide to Proper Scouting
« Reply #30 on: February 20, 2011, 04:46:58 AM »
Also, Ghostwalk, while released after 3.5 debuted, was still published as a 3.0 book. Whoopses.
At least they have a seventeen page official conversion.
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bkdubs123

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Re: A Guide to Proper Scouting
« Reply #31 on: February 20, 2011, 05:20:32 AM »
pfffft! nice.

GrokThis

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Re: A Guide to Proper Scouting
« Reply #32 on: February 20, 2011, 02:24:11 PM »
RAW, I think it works against more than just blindsense, blindsight and tremorsense.  You're indetectable to those senses.  Other nonvisual senses can detect you, but think you're 30' off from where you are.

Quote
When you reach 9th level, your attunement to the particular atmosphere of the Underdark allows you to warp the sounds, scents, and vibrations you give off, making you invisible to creatures that rely on senses other than sight to detect others. This effectively makes you undetectable to blindsense, blindsight, and tremorsense. You still make noises and vibrations (though a successful Move Silently check can mask the sounds), but creatures that cannot see are incapable of determining your true location and believe that you are 30 feet in a random direction from where you are actually located.

In addition, this ability nullifies the effect of the Blind-Fight feat against you.

I concede now that it would work against scent as you "warp the sounds, scents, and vibrations you give off," but I still argue that it wouldn't work against Mindsight, or Lifesense, or other non-sensual means of detection, as they have nothing to do with sound, scent, or vibration. (Even if lifesense works like blindsight, it also works like deathwatch.)

bearsarebrown

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Re: A Guide to Proper Scouting
« Reply #33 on: February 20, 2011, 02:26:11 PM »
How the fuck are Mindsight/Lifesense not senses? Jesus Christ.

GrokThis

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Re: A Guide to Proper Scouting
« Reply #34 on: February 20, 2011, 04:47:03 PM »
How the fuck are Mindsight/Lifesense not senses? Jesus Christ.

I am not disputing this. Non-sensual was a poor choice of words. Extra sensory (senses that do not rely on physical stimuli, ie. Mindsight or Lifesense) would probably be more accurate. However, hostility towards someone who has a differing opinion isn't very becoming on a forum designed for civil discourse.


lans

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Re: A Guide to Proper Scouting
« Reply #35 on: February 20, 2011, 11:34:15 PM »
How the fuck are Mindsight/Lifesense not senses? Jesus Christ.

I am not disputing this. Non-sensual was a poor choice of words. Extra sensory (senses that do not rely on physical stimuli, ie. Mindsight or Lifesense) would probably be more accurate. However, hostility towards someone who has a differing opinion isn't very becoming on a forum designed for civil discourse.
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Re: A Guide to Proper Scouting
« Reply #36 on: February 21, 2011, 01:35:16 AM »
I'm with GrokThis on this one.
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Re: A Guide to Proper Scouting
« Reply #37 on: February 21, 2011, 02:46:09 PM »
JaronK: just so you know, Mindsight and Life Sense can both be taken by psicrystals, since they both have access to telepathy and have no Con scores, and they can take Darkstalker as well.

Psicrystals make excellent scouts and scouting buddies.
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JaronK

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Re: A Guide to Proper Scouting
« Reply #38 on: February 21, 2011, 09:45:20 PM »
JaronK: just so you know, Mindsight and Life Sense can both be taken by psicrystals, since they both have access to telepathy and have no Con scores, and they can take Darkstalker as well.

Wow, and all this time I thought the requirement was "undead."  But you're right, it's "no con score."  That's awfully handy.

Quote
Psicrystals make excellent scouts and scouting buddies.

Drat, now I have to go put a bunch of psionic classes in there.

JaronK

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Re: A Guide to Proper Scouting
« Reply #39 on: February 25, 2011, 10:25:13 PM »
There is a metamagic feat that helps with the whole "not being detected" thing.

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