Author Topic: Long duration buffs for Bards?  (Read 3160 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Dictum Mortuum

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1160
  • always female suspects
    • Email
Long duration buffs for Bards?
« on: February 12, 2011, 05:41:41 PM »
I've found Nixie's Grace, Superior/Greater Resistance and alter self, but it seems that bards do not gain access to many useful long-duration buffs or spells that rely on caster level.
Dictum Mortuum's Handbooks: My personal character optimization blog.


Agita

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 5465
  • SFT is mai waifu.
Re: Long duration buffs for Bards?
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2011, 05:52:36 PM »
Snowsong (Frostburn) lasts 10 min/level and is an area party buff, plus imposes ASF on enemies. But yes, all in all the Bards seem to be more into short-term buffs. I know there's a feat that lets you expend Bardic Music uses to apply metamagic feats to spells, allowing Persistent Spell shenanigans, but I forget what it's called or where it is.
It's all about vision and making reality conform to your vision. By dropping a fucking house on it.

Agita's Awesome Poster Compilation
Lycanthromancer's Awesome Poster Compilation

Shadeseraph

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 377
    • Email
Re: Long duration buffs for Bards?
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2011, 06:02:56 PM »
The feat is Metamagic Song, from Races of the Stone, but it doesn't allow Persitant Spell shenanigans because it doesn't allow you to metamagize a spell which you would need a spell slot of higher level than you can cast with that metamagic feat applied.
[spoiler]
I hate mouth breathing fuckwits who go around spouting lies, even after being corrected on those lies, and that bait mods into helping to defend their wrongness and fail. I also hate the MBFs that don't understand the meaning of words, and that can't get a fucking clue.
Hey! I like spouting lies. It's very entertaining to observe how people on the internet are buffing their small egos by declaring victories over some stupid MBFs. :smirk
Also - I hate people who use too smart words that I don't understand. :mad

Hi Welcome

Go fuck yourself, because others won't do it for you.

Stop flirting you two.  :p
[/spoiler]

Rejakor

  • Donkey Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 610
    • Email
Re: Long duration buffs for Bards?
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2011, 06:08:46 PM »
It's called Metamagic Song, and although it's capped at 'highest level of spell you can cast' you can use Talfirian Song (free heighten on illusion spells human only) to cast '9th' level spells and so persist 3rd level bard spells.  Then easy metamagic to persist 4th level and /something else/ (metamagic school focus?) to cast 5th level spells etc.

Is pretty feat intensive, eats up your bardic music uses.

EDIT:  Ninja'd.  But I still had info on Talfirian Song, so hopefully still useful.

snakeman830

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 3494
  • BG's resident furry min/maxxer
Re: Long duration buffs for Bards?
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2011, 06:10:25 PM »
Not a buff in most cases, but Undersong lasts 10 min/level.  It lets you replace all Concentration checks with Perform.  Again, not a buff in most cases, but when properly used, it can be frighteningly good.
I am constantly amazed by how many DM's ban Tomb of Battle.  The book doesn't even exist!

Quotes:[spoiler]
By yes, she means no.
That explains so much about my life.
hiicantcomeupwithacharacterthatisntaghostwhyisthatamijustretardedorsomething
Why would you even do this? It hurts my eyes and looks like you ate your keyboard before suffering an attack of explosive diarrhea.
[/spoiler]

If using Genesis to hide your phylactry, set it at -300 degrees farenheit.  See how do-gooders fare with a liquid atmosphere.

Shadeseraph

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 377
    • Email
Re: Long duration buffs for Bards?
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2011, 06:18:30 PM »
It's called Metamagic Song, and although it's capped at 'highest level of spell you can cast' you can use Talfirian Song (free heighten on illusion spells human only) to cast '9th' level spells and so persist 3rd level bard spells.  Then easy metamagic to persist 4th level and /something else/ (metamagic school focus?) to cast 5th level spells etc.

Is pretty feat intensive, eats up your bardic music uses.

EDIT:  Ninja'd.  But I still had info on Talfirian Song, so hopefully still useful.

Please, use the appropiate term. Here we use Swordsage'd.

Aaanyway, that's the kind of trick that raises problems, but it is a good trick, and I prefer leaving the discusion of its legality on the hand of more hot-blooded people than me. Nice find.
[spoiler]
I hate mouth breathing fuckwits who go around spouting lies, even after being corrected on those lies, and that bait mods into helping to defend their wrongness and fail. I also hate the MBFs that don't understand the meaning of words, and that can't get a fucking clue.
Hey! I like spouting lies. It's very entertaining to observe how people on the internet are buffing their small egos by declaring victories over some stupid MBFs. :smirk
Also - I hate people who use too smart words that I don't understand. :mad

Hi Welcome

Go fuck yourself, because others won't do it for you.

Stop flirting you two.  :p
[/spoiler]

Agita

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 5465
  • SFT is mai waifu.
Re: Long duration buffs for Bards?
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2011, 06:27:45 PM »
Not a buff in most cases, but Undersong lasts 10 min/level.  It lets you replace all Concentration checks with Perform.  Again, not a buff in most cases, but when properly used, it can be frighteningly good.
The Lord of the Dance build was built around that and various Diamong Mind maneuvers, among other things.
[spoiler][/spoiler]
It's all about vision and making reality conform to your vision. By dropping a fucking house on it.

Agita's Awesome Poster Compilation
Lycanthromancer's Awesome Poster Compilation

Dictum Mortuum

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1160
  • always female suspects
    • Email
Re: Long duration buffs for Bards?
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2011, 06:31:13 PM »
Actually, Melodic Casting :p
Dictum Mortuum's Handbooks: My personal character optimization blog.


snakeman830

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 3494
  • BG's resident furry min/maxxer
Re: Long duration buffs for Bards?
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2011, 06:35:34 PM »
Actually, Melodic Casting :p
Yeah, this was why the Lord of the Dance build didn't actually work.  Melodic Casting only replaces for spellcasting.
I am constantly amazed by how many DM's ban Tomb of Battle.  The book doesn't even exist!

Quotes:[spoiler]
By yes, she means no.
That explains so much about my life.
hiicantcomeupwithacharacterthatisntaghostwhyisthatamijustretardedorsomething
Why would you even do this? It hurts my eyes and looks like you ate your keyboard before suffering an attack of explosive diarrhea.
[/spoiler]

If using Genesis to hide your phylactry, set it at -300 degrees farenheit.  See how do-gooders fare with a liquid atmosphere.

Bozwevial

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 4497
  • Developing a relaxed attitude to danger.
Re: Long duration buffs for Bards?
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2011, 08:43:11 PM »
Actually, Melodic Casting :p
Yeah, this was why the Lord of the Dance build didn't actually work.  Melodic Casting only replaces for spellcasting.
Nah, I think it had a Persistent Undersong, which works in all cases.

Dictum Mortuum

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1160
  • always female suspects
    • Email
Re: Long duration buffs for Bards?
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2011, 08:53:17 PM »
Here's an idea, doable around 10th level. Get a cleric cohort. Get him to memorize a few 1 hour/level spells (plus divine metamagic), possibly doing the whole inspire greatness + practiced spellcaster thingy on him, too. Then BAM cast spell theft and snatch them as yours :P
Dictum Mortuum's Handbooks: My personal character optimization blog.


X-Codes

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 3941
Re: Long duration buffs for Bards?
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2011, 10:16:36 PM »
Human Bard 9/Virtuoso 1/Sublime Chord 2/Spelldancer 1/Virtuoso +7

Inspire Greatness + Practiced Spellcaster [Bard] is a mid-level stunt most of the time.  In this build, it's useful (even without Words of Creation) through 12th level.  At 12th, you can pick up Practiced Spellcaster [Sublime Chord], use Inspire Greatness, and then apply your various spellcasting boosts as so:

Base Bard: 9
Inspire Greatness + Practiced Spellcaster [Bard]: 13

Sublime Chord: 2
Practiced Spellcaster [Sublime Chord]: 6
+ Bard CL: 19

So CL for Bard and Sublime Chord spells is 19 when you have Inspire Greatness up, or 18 when you don't.  Then, Song of Arcane Power can boost that to 22 or 23.  That will let you cut loose with some nasty black tentacles spells at this level, and Greater Dispel Magic as a 5th-level spell will make sure you knock out any/all Freedom of Movement buffs they might try to throw up.

skydragonknight

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 3297
Re: Long duration buffs for Bards?
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2011, 02:51:41 AM »
Divine Bard + Sacred Exorcist dip = Divine Metamagic.
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

ninjarabbit

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1442
    • Email
Re: Long duration buffs for Bards?
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2011, 03:07:51 AM »
Remember in 3.0 bards had greater magic weapon and mage armor on their spell list....good times.

Dictum Mortuum

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1160
  • always female suspects
    • Email
Re: Long duration buffs for Bards?
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2011, 03:23:29 AM »
Remember in 3.0 bards had greater magic weapon and mage armor on their spell list....good times.

Now that i think of it, they can shadow conjuration -> greater mage armor.
Dictum Mortuum's Handbooks: My personal character optimization blog.


Dictum Mortuum

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1160
  • always female suspects
    • Email
Re: Long duration buffs for Bards?
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2011, 03:38:22 AM »
Divine Bard + Sacred Exorcist dip = Divine Metamagic.

They'll have trouble getting dispel evil or dismissal
Dictum Mortuum's Handbooks: My personal character optimization blog.


skydragonknight

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 3297
Re: Long duration buffs for Bards?
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2011, 04:02:13 AM »
Divine Bard + Sacred Exorcist dip = Divine Metamagic.

They'll have trouble getting dispel evil or dismissal

Oh, right. ...it'd have to be a Cleric dip then.
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

sir_argenon

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 367
Re: Long duration buffs for Bards?
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2011, 04:06:24 AM »
Divine Bard + Sacred Exorcist dip = Divine Metamagic.

They'll have trouble getting dispel evil or dismissal

Oh, right. ...it'd have to be a Cleric dip then.

thats quite a dip for a 4th level spell.

skydragonknight

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 3297
Re: Long duration buffs for Bards?
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2011, 04:10:34 AM »
Cleric is one of the best dips in the game, so it's cool.  :D
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

X-Codes

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 3941
Re: Long duration buffs for Bards?
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2011, 04:12:18 AM »
Divine Bard + Sacred Exorcist dip = Divine Metamagic.

They'll have trouble getting dispel evil or dismissal

Oh, right. ...it'd have to be a Cleric dip then.

thats quite a dip for a 4th level spell.

Yes, it is, so he'll just take 1 level to get Turn Undead that way.

Make it Cloistered Cleric, IMO.