Nerfing Magic Redux

[Bozwevial]

Oh, I agree with that --my personal inclination is to make Teleport a ritual style effect--but it does make sense that it won't always work.

[Gods_Trick]

Oh, I agree with that --my personal inclination is to make Teleport a ritual style effect--but it does make sense that it won't always work.

I'm assuming you're in agreement with Veekies post.

[Bozwevial]

Oh, I agree with that --my personal inclination is to make Teleport a ritual style effect--but it does make sense that it won't always work.

I'm assuming you're in agreement with Veekies post.

Yes. Yours too, but then again, I've played with groups who would love teleport diverts and all sorts of other unpredictable stuff. Granted, randomness tends to screw over the party.

[oslecamo]

Yeah, but a systematic nerf(i.e. changing teleport to work like this so its harder to get to a place you hadn't actually been to) is more consistent than using teleport blocks, diverts and special locations all the time.

And then the players pull out the scrying and background stories on how they traveled the whole world (just like the druid knows every animal out there), and suddenly your nerf is no more.

One of the biggest problems with D&D it's that there's plenty of ways to go around suposed drawbacks. Thus such a "change" like you sugest doesn't really do much because the players who want to teleport directly just do a little scrying/knowledge checks and be good to go.

On the other hand, teleport comes with a built-in drawback that has no workarounds whatsoever. Really, why don't use it? Heck, you can even let the players use divination and knowledge checks in advance to know to where they can teleport or not! What's exactly the problem for using the actual rules?

After the second time it fails because of 'special location' bullshit, yes, I'll have figured out its the latter. I'll also be pissed with the GM for not mentioning it.

Let me see if I understand, reading only the part that of the spell that's usefull to you it's all fun and games, but the DM enforcing the spell to work by it's actual rules it's bullshit?

So, do you also call bullshit that your caster can't use cast spells when he runs out of slots? Or that you die when you reach -10 HP? Or that you'll only reach lv 3 when you get 3000 exp total?

The DM's job is to provide challenges for the party, not to let them do as they please while ignoring the rules that aren't convenient for them at the moment.

[Kajhera]

There is the workaround of teleporting to an utterly mundane place nearby, but I don't see any particular problems with that.

'Impossible' should be done rarely, 'hazardous' is more interesting to play with...

[Bozwevial]

After the second time it fails because of 'special location' bullshit, yes, I'll have figured out its the latter. I'll also be pissed with the GM for not mentioning it.

Let me see if I understand, reading only the part that of the spell that's usefull to you it's all fun and games, but the DM enforcing the spell to work by it's actual rules it's bullshit?

So, do you also call bullshit that your caster can't use cast spells when he runs out of slots? Or that you die when you reach -10 HP? Or that you'll only reach lv 3 when you get 3000 exp total?

The DM's job is to provide challenges for the party, not to let them do as they please while ignoring the rules that aren't convenient for them at the moment.

I think you've attributed the quote to the wrong person there, oslecamo.

[oslecamo]

I think you've attributed the quote to the wrong person there, oslecamo.

Yeah, sorry about that.

Kajhera:By all means, teleport to the nearby mundane area, then take your time fighting trough the guards and the dungeons and whatnot.

And there's the "hazardous" for you. You teleport trough the mundane wilderness, and now have to face off the real monster attacks and traps instead of safely bypassing everything.

[veekie]

And then the players pull out the scrying and background stories on how they traveled the whole world (just like the druid knows every animal out there), and suddenly your nerf is no more.

Welllll, actually I accounted for that in them rules.

EDIT:
Granted, Greater teleport gets around that for the most part, but it'd take some skill to have been to the particular dungeon before in backstory.

[Kajhera]

I think you've attributed the quote to the wrong person there, oslecamo.

Yeah, sorry about that.

Kajhera:By all means, teleport to the nearby mundane area, then take your time fighting trough the guards and the dungeons and whatnot.

And there's the "hazardous" for you. You teleport trough the mundane wilderness, and now have to face off the real monster attacks and traps instead of safely bypassing everything.

And that way keeps me, as DM, from having to come up with 3 days worth of irrelevant encounters in between. (ugh.) So yea, that's a workaround I'd be happy with.

[Gods_Trick]

After the second time it fails because of 'special location' bullshit, yes, I'll have figured out its the latter. I'll also be pissed with the GM for not mentioning it.

Let me see if I understand, reading only the part that of the spell that's usefull to you it's all fun and games, but the DM enforcing the spell to work by it's actual rules it's bullshit?

Yes, fun & games Osclemo  . D&D is built with a bias to plot hammer and rail stories, so the legacy of that is seen in pretty much everything. Rule 0.

But, either use it sparingly, or it becomes what I said earlier, an A-to-B spell; so mention it, as a spellcaster probably within the world knows how it works. If every BBEG lair just happens to be a Place of Powah, yes, functionally it is changed for the players. Remember, when I posted earlier, just be upfront about how you want the world to work, consistancy as got oft repeated.

No one likes playing an a genius who comes off looking retarded by not knowing how the world works eh? And everybody hates a GM who looks like his asspulling stuff.

[veekie]

Now, there is a way to make it work out, and consistently without modifying the spell itself.

Create a ley line map of the setting, and mark all the more intense lines as teleport/scrying static. It still doesn't do anything about the open ended divinations though, which imply an omniscient entity somewhere answering those questions.

EDIT: Hell, attach all kinds of fun thematics to those lines and nodes. Might as well make it fun.