Interesting Homebrew PrCs

[Amechra]

Alright, here is the gist; I'm planning on running what is basically the Iron Chef competitions, but for Homebrew PrCs. Any ideas as to which should be the first?

[RelentlessImp]

I wish I could point at my homebrew, but I haven't homebrewed anything since I actually learned how to play the D&D metagame. If the Gemini Dancer doesn't make it on here, though, I will be disappoint.

[bearsarebrown]

Homebrew is all over the place. There is shitty stuff from grognards at GitP who think the Dwarven Defender is a good class and there is the Tome series. What do you have it mind?

[Amechra]

Have you ever read the Iron Chef competitions over on GitP (not the ones that were here, because I have less experience with those.)?

I'm thinking Dwarven Defender levels, which the people then have to make a respectable character out of, as much Homebrew as they want to use to do so.

[bearsarebrown]

No specific examples, just qualms I have with GitP Iron Chef.

So many of their choices are terrible. I understand you want to pick a class that is difficult to use but some are impossible. Ardent Dilettante for example. It doesn't do a single fucking noteworthy thing. Sure you get some feats, it's hard to qualify for, it has neat flavor, but the class offers nothing to mark a character. Terrible choice. Lots of their other picks where like this too. The current pick, Unseelie Dark Hunter offers... poor spell casting, faster mounts, faster movement(wtf?), uncanny dodge, low level spell-like abilities 1/day. How do you make a character out of this without just humoring the challenge? Green Star Adept, Stonelord, Cancer Mage, Entropomancer, and Vigilante are similar.

Sometimes they hit gold. Psibond Agent is an amazing class that I wouldn't have given a second look if not for the challenge. It offers non-mind effecting enchantment effects! Sorta. Mythic Exemplar and Animal Lord were also good picks, the classes offer choices, which helps differentiate between entries. War Chanter, War Mind, Assassin, and Master of Masks are other entries I enjoyed. 

I also dislike the rules of the game. When you're asking people to optimize shitty shit you need to be open to more sources. Why are so many people against Dragon Magazine? It should be allowed. And the judges all differ on what they consider "elegence" which leads to grognards getting made because you multi-classed or you're a Elf Barbarian and it doesn't "feel right" to them.

[Amechra]

I participate in it for the lols. I was actually penalized in the Power section by one judge (I got a 4), with a TO build that was ECL 27 by 20th level! Without LA or any other such stuff!. And then he gave other people 5s. I was also penalized on creativity because someone else picked to make a VoP prostitute as well. And apparently, they also gave me a penalty to elegance because I didn't explicitly state that I had gotten an Atonement spell.

And then in the Assassin one, they penalized the creative aspects of my build(s), even though the same people gave 5s to the two different cat Assassins. Compare the creativity of that to a madman hunting for his brother, w/ Shar as his best friend (Shadowcaster/Assassin/Noctumancer), and a worshiper of Vecna who had basically gone through the un-family-friendly version of Hogwarts (Spellthief/Assassin/Unseen Seer).

So basically, they are something I do to amuse myself.

I know; part of what I'm planning to do is:
1. Allow homebrew, Dragon and whatever, as long as they can cite and supply a link to the stuff written out. So the rest of the class can see what the hell you are working on.
2. Get the judges not to judge on personal preferences.
3. Ask around here, just for the pointers to good, buried homebrew PrCs. But they still have to be kinda not awesome, because there has to be some kind of challenge to optimize them...

I've also wondered what this competition would look like if, for example, the ingredient was having a certain base class...

[Nunkuruji]

Been talking to one of my players about psionics a lot this week, so I'll suggest picking from Hyperconcious or Untapped Potential. Maybe not technically homebrew, but often cited as acceptable 3rd party.

[Maat_Mons]

I made a homebrew prestige class some time ago that I thought turned out well.

[Prime32]

I submit my Psicrystal Master.

[Nytemare3701]

Not the MOST inspired of classes, but it fills a niche that I thought gishes could definitely use. I whipped it up in under an hour this morning, so it's not perfect yet.

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=11014.msg377037#msg377037

[Agita]

Any and all of these PrCs.

[Amadi]

There was a soulsinger base-class, which was effectively an Incarnum Bard, where he could invest essentia to the songs to make them stronger, and so on. It was really interesting concept, and I even played one. I just can't find it anymore, it seems to have gotten deleted, so if anyone would have it saved or something...

http://forums.gleemax.com/archive/index.php/t-775126.html

[Dictum Mortuum]

There was a soulsinger base-class, which was effectively an Incarnum Bard, where he could invest essentia to the songs to make them stronger, and so on. It was really interesting concept, and I even played one. I just can't find it anymore, it seems to have gotten deleted, so if anyone would have it saved or something...

http://forums.gleemax.com/archive/index.php/t-775126.html

That's awesome

[Endarire]

I present the Diamond Heart, which melds psionics and martial adepts.

[Littha]

ooh ooh, Bladefire Valkyrie.

[Akalsaris]

No specific examples, just qualms I have with GitP Iron Chef.

So many of their choices are terrible. I understand you want to pick a class that is difficult to use but some are impossible. Ardent Dilettante for example. It doesn't do a single fucking noteworthy thing. Sure you get some feats, it's hard to qualify for, it has neat flavor, but the class offers nothing to mark a character. Terrible choice. Lots of their other picks where like this too. The current pick, Unseelie Dark Hunter offers... poor spell casting, faster mounts, faster movement(wtf?), uncanny dodge, low level spell-like abilities 1/day. How do you make a character out of this without just humoring the challenge? Green Star Adept, Stonelord, Cancer Mage, Entropomancer, and Vigilante are similar.

Sometimes they hit gold. Psibond Agent is an amazing class that I wouldn't have given a second look if not for the challenge. It offers non-mind effecting enchantment effects! Sorta. Mythic Exemplar and Animal Lord were also good picks, the classes offer choices, which helps differentiate between entries. War Chanter, War Mind, Assassin, and Master of Masks are other entries I enjoyed. 

I also dislike the rules of the game. When you're asking people to optimize shitty shit you need to be open to more sources. Why are so many people against Dragon Magazine? It should be allowed. And the judges all differ on what they consider "elegence" which leads to grognards getting made because you multi-classed or you're a Elf Barbarian and it doesn't "feel right" to them.

I agree with a lot of this - I haven't participated in the last few challenges because many of the PrC choices are pretty bland and I've been busy.  Stonelord was my least favorite, since levels in Stonelord are about as worthwhile as pissing into the wind.  With that said, Cancer Mage was my favorite challenge so far, because the PrC ended up having way more options than I had expected.  Psibond Agent was another surprisingly fun challenge. 

I participate in it for the lols. I was actually penalized in the Power section by one judge (I got a 4), with a TO build that was ECL 27 by 20th level! Without LA or any other such stuff!. And then he gave other people 5s. I was also penalized on creativity because someone else picked to make a VoP prostitute as well. And apparently, they also gave me a penalty to elegance because I didn't explicitly state that I had gotten an Atonement spell.

And then in the Assassin one, they penalized the creative aspects of my build(s), even though the same people gave 5s to the two different cat Assassins. Compare the creativity of that to a madman hunting for his brother, w/ Shar as his best friend (Shadowcaster/Assassin/Noctumancer), and a worshiper of Vecna who had basically gone through the un-family-friendly version of Hogwarts (Spellthief/Assassin/Unseen Seer).

So basically, they are something I do to amuse myself.

I know; part of what I'm planning to do is:
1. Allow homebrew, Dragon and whatever, as long as they can cite and supply a link to the stuff written out. So the rest of the class can see what the hell you are working on.
2. Get the judges not to judge on personal preferences.
3. Ask around here, just for the pointers to good, buried homebrew PrCs. But they still have to be kinda not awesome, because there has to be some kind of challenge to optimize them...

I've also wondered what this competition would look like if, for example, the ingredient was having a certain base class...

This is just my personal opinion, but I felt that TG Oscar was a terrible judge, and his judging screwed up the ardent dilettente scores. I had some poor judges back when I was a contestant as well. Really, the important thing is to make a character that you like though, and not worry about what the judges think. I've had characters who placed in 2nd, but got PMs from audience members telling me that they were making a character for their game  based on my build - that's a rewarding feeling. For judges, this upcoming Unseelie Dark Hunter challenge has Grynning, who I've found to be an excellent judge, OMGPonies, who should be decent since she's won several contests, and then two dark horses who could be awesome or could be horrible.

If you do go through with this challenge, I would definitely host it on GitP. The grognards there are not as bad as the rules-lawyerism that I've seen drag down all of the challenges hosted here on BG. And I'm speaking as probably the only person who has participated in both BG's and GitP's challenges. There is also a much larger audience pool and more potential judges and contestants there, which you need because half of the people who sign up will not submit builds. There was a homebrew IC challenge here on BG, by the way, though I might have been the only contestant who submitted a finished build.

[Amechra]

I was planning on doing it over there anyway, just because of, well, the reasons you said.

[Littha]

Aww, guess I can make a third account and hopefully not get banned again.

[PlzBreakMyCampaign]

If your half the man I think you are, you will get banned again over there. I only stay to dick with ppl.

I submit my Psicrystal Master.

Simple and flavorful. Like bacon. Mmmm

To OP: I had this thread once. It was concerning using homebrew for a special purpose: to create a Tier1 class. This class had the goal of defending against non-TO full casters withou... oh nevermind