[3.5] Help me build a new monstrous melee character

[zapato2]

So here's the situation: I've had some fun playing a draegloth barbarian the past year or so in our groups "City of the Spider Queen" campaign. He was strong, unique, had lots of good defenses and some extra natural attacks to boot. But mostly he hit hard and from 10 ft away due to his strength and large size. Unfortunately there were some down sides as well: I had to waste 6 character levels for his HD, I wasted a lot of feats allowing him to use his natural attacks without penalty's (not smart) and he was very very very boring. (Link: http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=256711).

Another problem I bumped into is that after he got cursed twice, he became unplayable. With my party members being able to fix everything except curses and due to the nature of the campaign having no other way to lift the curse for the next 3 months or so. I told my DM he had two options: either we find a scroll of remove curse thus giving our caster the ability to remove curses..OR my draegloth barbarian dies a heroic death the next fight and I build a new (better) character. He chose the latter..

I am however not an expert on DnD and I need some help building a fun, powerful, big, monstrous character. Can you guys help me?

Here are the rules:
- Version 3.5.
- Almost all material is allowed instead of campaign specific stuff like a warforged from Eberron (CotSQ is a Forgotten Realms campaign). Also no Homebrew.
- We play "City of the Spider Queen" followed by some other unknown campaigns.
- The party is an evil drow party determined to take back there 'home'. It consists of an erudite/thrallherd and his arcane/divine caster thrall, a drow warlock and a drow ranged fighter build.
- Character starts at lvl 11, in the end of the final campaign he's supposed to be about lvl 20.
- You can IGNORE 2 LA, any remaining LA can be bought off (my draegloth had a LA of +2 instead of +4, with the option to buy off the rest in a few levels). This was done because almost all the members were drow.
- Ability scores are 34 PBS or roll dice.
- Allowed to spend 50.000gp on starting equipment etc. Max price for 1 item is 15.000gp

Thanks in advance for all the help!

P.S. Yes I read the barbarian handbook (both of them). No I wont make a 'Hood'. And if anyone suggests any templates or classes and such, please mention which source book you got them from. Thank you

P.P.S. One fun build I found was: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176941.. I dont like being a dwarf as a base class though. Even if it means sacrificing some +str. But you kinda get the idea this way of what I want and how much cheese my DM allows ^^

[Bloody Initiate]

One easy/obvious template is Lolth-Touched from MM4. I particularly enjoy being Lolth-Touched at the same time that I'm slaughtering Drow.

In "Expedition to the Demonweb Pits" we massacred our way to Lolth, and then instead of doing as the campaign suggested (Some treaty bullshit), we asked for the Template. 4 hours of fighting and a couple aspects of Lolth later, we got what we wanted. I made it clear to her that I would not stop killing Drow just because she'd done me a favor.

The beauty of chaotic deities is that there really isn't anything that's completely off the table when dealing with them. Lolth didn't see what we did as an insult or defiance, but mostly as entertaining. We didn't worship her or anything, just sold her the Material Plane and beat the snot out of her aspects.

Overall I suppose it was a pretty lame move on our part (The campaign ending must have been better than a measly +1 template), but the fun of it wasn't the reward it was the getting of it. Nothing feels quite as good as "I've butchered your servants, desecrated your altars, and crippled your military. I would like a reward."

[Nunkuruji]

Quaggoth Barbarian/Pouncer build (drow of the underdark)

[Kajhera]

Well, based on the recent thread... play a Maug.    Fiend Folio's a 3.0 book but it got a brief update to 3.5, so it should be golden.

Notable features: Large 2HD construct with +3 LA, +10 strength, +4 dexterity, +2 int, +2 cha. Some random special qualities, and notably the ability to start out with a free 2k worth of maug grafts and spend your class wealth on it. Probably proficient with two-bladed swords and heavy armor.

Now, you could Incarnate Construct Lolthtouched it, to be flavorful and powerful and at precisely +2 LA, but constructs have a lot of nice immunities and you'd be giving up the ability to graft things, as well as some other special qualities. Still, +16 strength, +6 constitution. Only problem is Maugs are naturally lawful.

As for fun classes, (Tome of Battle follows) warblade is always great for just rending things apart, while a crusader's Thicket of Blades could help you take advantage of your reach nicely.

Also, you get pounce most easily on a barbarian by picking up the Lion Totem from Complete Champion under Alternate Class Features. You probably know that, just pointing it out.  

A more 3.5-y race might be a lolthtouched half-minotaur ... orc. Or any legal target for those templates of at least medium size, really. I'm liking quaggoth too.

[zapato2]

I've got a pretty good idea now what (sub)race(s) I'm gonna play now. Any ideas for classes/feats/items? Any interesting builds with warblade possible?

I've taken a second look at the build I posted. Runescarred berserker sounds fun because of the AMF and frenzied can be fun if I can chose to stop frenzying(my party members are not the forgiving type ). But the rest is mostly unarmed combat focused witch I dont care mutch about.

[Pimpforged]

What race are you playing? If you're large or larger go with War Hulk (Miniatures Handbook)

I also recommend the Feral Template (Savage Species) it's fantastic for most melee builds

[zapato2]

What race are you playing? If you're large or larger go with War Hulk (Miniatures Handbook)

I also recommend the Feral Template (Savage Species) it's fantastic for most melee builds

I'm still playing around with the many possible templates (including feral, I love pounce). But safe to say I'm going to use half minotaur. So thats Large size

[RelentlessImp]

What race are you playing? If you're large or larger go with War Hulk (Miniatures Handbook)

I also recommend the Feral Template (Savage Species) it's fantastic for most melee builds

I'm still playing around with the many possible templates (including feral, I love pounce). But safe to say I'm going to use half minotaur. So thats Large size

If you start with a Small race, you can apply Half-Ogre (Dragon 313 p94) for +4 Str, -2 Int, -2 Cha, and a bump to Medium, which gives an extra +4 Str, -2 Dex, +2 Con. Then you apply Half-Minotaur, which gives +4 Str, +2 Con, -2 Int, -2 Wis, and a size boost to Large, which gives a further +8 Str, -2 Dex, +4 Con.

All told, you gain: +20 Str, -4 Dex, +8 Con, -4 Int, -2 Wis, -2 Charisma, for a measly investment of +2 LA (which is free for you). You can throw on Lolth-Touched if you want at that point, if you really want another point of LA, to boost it to 26 Str, 14 Con, and a Chaotic Evil Alignment.

[Kajhera]

What race are you playing? If you're large or larger go with War Hulk (Miniatures Handbook)

I also recommend the Feral Template (Savage Species) it's fantastic for most melee builds

I'm still playing around with the many possible templates (including feral, I love pounce). But safe to say I'm going to use half minotaur. So thats Large size

If you start with a Small race, you can apply Half-Ogre (Dragon 313 p94) for +4 Str, -2 Int, -2 Cha, and a bump to Medium, which gives an extra +4 Str, -2 Dex, +2 Con. Then you apply Half-Minotaur, which gives +4 Str, +2 Con, -2 Int, -2 Wis, and a size boost to Large, which gives a further +8 Str, -2 Dex, +4 Con.

All told, you gain: +20 Str, -4 Dex, +8 Con, -4 Int, -2 Wis, -2 Charisma, for a measly investment of +2 LA (which is free for you). You can throw on Lolth-Touched if you want at that point, if you really want another point of LA, to boost it to 26 Str, 14 Con, and a Chaotic Evil Alignment.

... Note to self: Kidnap more halflings for breeding experiments.

[RelentlessImp]

What race are you playing? If you're large or larger go with War Hulk (Miniatures Handbook)

I also recommend the Feral Template (Savage Species) it's fantastic for most melee builds

I'm still playing around with the many possible templates (including feral, I love pounce). But safe to say I'm going to use half minotaur. So thats Large size

If you start with a Small race, you can apply Half-Ogre (Dragon 313 p94) for +4 Str, -2 Int, -2 Cha, and a bump to Medium, which gives an extra +4 Str, -2 Dex, +2 Con. Then you apply Half-Minotaur, which gives +4 Str, +2 Con, -2 Int, -2 Wis, and a size boost to Large, which gives a further +8 Str, -2 Dex, +4 Con.

All told, you gain: +20 Str, -4 Dex, +8 Con, -4 Int, -2 Wis, -2 Charisma, for a measly investment of +2 LA (which is free for you). You can throw on Lolth-Touched if you want at that point, if you really want another point of LA, to boost it to 26 Str, 14 Con, and a Chaotic Evil Alignment.

... Note to self: Kidnap more halflings for breeding experiments.

Make sure they're Strongheart Halflings for that extra feat. I break out that combo when I'm forced to play the beatstick; strangely, my group never wants me to play beatstick for a long while after I do it, mainly because it makes the rest of them feel small. I usually add in a level of Lion Totem Barbarian for Pounce, a few levels of Frenzied Zerker, and add in Leap Attack, Shock Trooper, and a persistent item of Wraithstrike when I can afford it.

People prefer it when I play casters. Every time.

EDIT: I also toss in 2 levels of Combat Monk (some dragon) and pick up Leap Attack and Shock Trooper without meeting prereqs when I'm feeling particularly vindictive about being forced to be a non-caster.

[Kajhera]

What race are you playing? If you're large or larger go with War Hulk (Miniatures Handbook)

I also recommend the Feral Template (Savage Species) it's fantastic for most melee builds

I'm still playing around with the many possible templates (including feral, I love pounce). But safe to say I'm going to use half minotaur. So thats Large size

If you start with a Small race, you can apply Half-Ogre (Dragon 313 p94) for +4 Str, -2 Int, -2 Cha, and a bump to Medium, which gives an extra +4 Str, -2 Dex, +2 Con. Then you apply Half-Minotaur, which gives +4 Str, +2 Con, -2 Int, -2 Wis, and a size boost to Large, which gives a further +8 Str, -2 Dex, +4 Con.

All told, you gain: +20 Str, -4 Dex, +8 Con, -4 Int, -2 Wis, -2 Charisma, for a measly investment of +2 LA (which is free for you). You can throw on Lolth-Touched if you want at that point, if you really want another point of LA, to boost it to 26 Str, 14 Con, and a Chaotic Evil Alignment.

... Note to self: Kidnap more halflings for breeding experiments.

Make sure they're Strongheart Halflings for that extra feat. I break out that combo when I'm forced to play the beatstick; strangely, my group never wants me to play beatstick for a long while after I do it, mainly because it makes the rest of them feel small. I usually add in a level of Lion Totem Barbarian for Pounce, a few levels of Frenzied Zerker, and add in Leap Attack, Shock Trooper, and a persistent item of Wraithstrike when I can afford it.

People prefer it when I play casters. Every time.

EDIT: I also toss in 2 levels of Combat Monk (some dragon) and pick up Leap Attack and Shock Trooper without meeting prereqs when I'm feeling particularly vindictive about being forced to be a non-caster.

Any advice on rendering them properly obedient to our will and orders?

[RelentlessImp]

What race are you playing? If you're large or larger go with War Hulk (Miniatures Handbook)

I also recommend the Feral Template (Savage Species) it's fantastic for most melee builds

I'm still playing around with the many possible templates (including feral, I love pounce). But safe to say I'm going to use half minotaur. So thats Large size

If you start with a Small race, you can apply Half-Ogre (Dragon 313 p94) for +4 Str, -2 Int, -2 Cha, and a bump to Medium, which gives an extra +4 Str, -2 Dex, +2 Con. Then you apply Half-Minotaur, which gives +4 Str, +2 Con, -2 Int, -2 Wis, and a size boost to Large, which gives a further +8 Str, -2 Dex, +4 Con.

All told, you gain: +20 Str, -4 Dex, +8 Con, -4 Int, -2 Wis, -2 Charisma, for a measly investment of +2 LA (which is free for you). You can throw on Lolth-Touched if you want at that point, if you really want another point of LA, to boost it to 26 Str, 14 Con, and a Chaotic Evil Alignment.

... Note to self: Kidnap more halflings for breeding experiments.

Make sure they're Strongheart Halflings for that extra feat. I break out that combo when I'm forced to play the beatstick; strangely, my group never wants me to play beatstick for a long while after I do it, mainly because it makes the rest of them feel small. I usually add in a level of Lion Totem Barbarian for Pounce, a few levels of Frenzied Zerker, and add in Leap Attack, Shock Trooper, and a persistent item of Wraithstrike when I can afford it.

People prefer it when I play casters. Every time.

EDIT: I also toss in 2 levels of Combat Monk (some dragon) and pick up Leap Attack and Shock Trooper without meeting prereqs when I'm feeling particularly vindictive about being forced to be a non-caster.

Any advice on rendering them properly obedient to our will and orders?

See Emerald Legion for proper breeding practices and indoctrination.

[Pimpforged]

What race are you playing? If you're large or larger go with War Hulk (Miniatures Handbook)

I also recommend the Feral Template (Savage Species) it's fantastic for most melee builds

I'm still playing around with the many possible templates (including feral, I love pounce). But safe to say I'm going to use half minotaur. So thats Large size

If you start with a Small race, you can apply Half-Ogre (Dragon 313 p94) for +4 Str, -2 Int, -2 Cha, and a bump to Medium, which gives an extra +4 Str, -2 Dex, +2 Con. Then you apply Half-Minotaur, which gives +4 Str, +2 Con, -2 Int, -2 Wis, and a size boost to Large, which gives a further +8 Str, -2 Dex, +4 Con.

All told, you gain: +20 Str, -4 Dex, +8 Con, -4 Int, -2 Wis, -2 Charisma, for a measly investment of +2 LA (which is free for you). You can throw on Lolth-Touched if you want at that point, if you really want another point of LA, to boost it to 26 Str, 14 Con, and a Chaotic Evil Alignment.

... Note to self: Kidnap more halflings for breeding experiments.

Make sure they're Strongheart Halflings for that extra feat. I break out that combo when I'm forced to play the beatstick; strangely, my group never wants me to play beatstick for a long while after I do it, mainly because it makes the rest of them feel small. I usually add in a level of Lion Totem Barbarian for Pounce, a few levels of Frenzied Zerker, and add in Leap Attack, Shock Trooper, and a persistent item of Wraithstrike when I can afford it.

People prefer it when I play casters. Every time.

EDIT: I also toss in 2 levels of Combat Monk (some dragon) and pick up Leap Attack and Shock Trooper without meeting prereqs when I'm feeling particularly vindictive about being forced to be a non-caster.

What about using warforged scout as the base creature, then use incarnate construct for the -2 LA, then apply half-ogre and half-minotour + Feral and or Lolth Touched? Leaving you with only a +1 or +2 LA.

Edit:
Just saw that +2 LA is free so go for both Feral and Lolth-Touched

[Jopustopin]

Drow elf does qualify for Eternal Blade and it fits thematically with what sounds like the point of the game (being a drow and getting your home back or whatever).

Eternal Blade is a pretty bitchin' prestige class.  You can easily make a white raven focused raging/pouncing/warblade/Eternal Blade.

Assuming that you don't play with xp penalties for multiclassing (of which I feel that my group is the only one in the world that does) you could put out a reasonable amount of damage.

Here is my elf eternal blade build skeleton: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=10878.0
for an idea.

You can just as easily do a drow Warblade 10/Eternal Blade 10. 

[RelentlessImp]

What race are you playing? If you're large or larger go with War Hulk (Miniatures Handbook)

I also recommend the Feral Template (Savage Species) it's fantastic for most melee builds

I'm still playing around with the many possible templates (including feral, I love pounce). But safe to say I'm going to use half minotaur. So thats Large size

If you start with a Small race, you can apply Half-Ogre (Dragon 313 p94) for +4 Str, -2 Int, -2 Cha, and a bump to Medium, which gives an extra +4 Str, -2 Dex, +2 Con. Then you apply Half-Minotaur, which gives +4 Str, +2 Con, -2 Int, -2 Wis, and a size boost to Large, which gives a further +8 Str, -2 Dex, +4 Con.

All told, you gain: +20 Str, -4 Dex, +8 Con, -4 Int, -2 Wis, -2 Charisma, for a measly investment of +2 LA (which is free for you). You can throw on Lolth-Touched if you want at that point, if you really want another point of LA, to boost it to 26 Str, 14 Con, and a Chaotic Evil Alignment.

... Note to self: Kidnap more halflings for breeding experiments.

Make sure they're Strongheart Halflings for that extra feat. I break out that combo when I'm forced to play the beatstick; strangely, my group never wants me to play beatstick for a long while after I do it, mainly because it makes the rest of them feel small. I usually add in a level of Lion Totem Barbarian for Pounce, a few levels of Frenzied Zerker, and add in Leap Attack, Shock Trooper, and a persistent item of Wraithstrike when I can afford it.

People prefer it when I play casters. Every time.

EDIT: I also toss in 2 levels of Combat Monk (some dragon) and pick up Leap Attack and Shock Trooper without meeting prereqs when I'm feeling particularly vindictive about being forced to be a non-caster.

What about using warforged scout as the base creature, then use incarnate construct for the -2 LA, then apply half-ogre and half-minotour + Feral and or Lolth Touched? Leaving you with only a +1 or +2 LA.

Doesn't work. Half-ogre and Half-minotaur are inherited; Incarnate is acquired. Same issues with most templates stacking with Incarnate.

[Pimpforged]

damn, didn't see that

[RelentlessImp]

damn, didn't see that

You could certainly stack Lolth-Touched and Mineral Warrior, though. They're both acquired.

[weenog]

Assuming that you don't play with xp penalties for multiclassing (of which I feel that my group is the only one in the world that does) you could put out a reasonable amount of damage.

My group has been the same way for a couple years.  The next game we play, we're restricted to Tier 3-4 and the DM doesn't want to muck about with changing favored classes for things that favor stuff like Wizard, so I've managed to talk him into dropping penalties for imbalanced multiclassing.  If it goes well, he may abandon that rule altogether.  Maybe you could arrange something similar with your own group?

[Jopustopin]

Evil Drow have a tendency to treat all other races as utter crap.  I wouldn't want to role play anything other than a drow in an all drow party with my friends.  I think they would just give me shit 100% of the time and attribute it to role playing were I some other non-drow race.  I like the idea of a Drow Elf Eternal Blade.  You'd probably hear more about them if Drow wasn't among the worst +2 LA (and if Drizzt never existed).


My party is all tier 3 and I might be able to ask the DM if I can avoid the "favored class" requirement.  But, I feel that asking him for pounce might be already pressing the limits of what he wants to allow in his game.  We'll see.

[RelentlessImp]

Evil Drow have a tendency to treat all other races as utter crap.  I wouldn't want to role play anything other than a drow in an all drow party with my friends.  I think they would just give me shit 100% of the time and attribute it to role playing were I some other non-drow race.  I like the idea of a Drow Elf Eternal Blade.  You'd probably hear more about them if Drow wasn't among the worst +2 LA (and if Drizzt never existed).


My party is all tier 3 and I might be able to ask the DM if I can avoid the "favored class" requirement.  But, I feel that asking him for pounce might be already pressing the limits of what he wants to allow in his game.  We'll see.

Guess what happens when the non-drow starts dishing out 200+ damage per round. Go on, guess.