The Strong Arm Alchemist: Min/Maxing Alex Louis Armstrong

[Rasengan2theface]

I originally posted this topic http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9753255#post9753255 on the GITP forums and then someone reminded me "You should really take this to somewhere like BrilliantGameologists" and here I am. But, for the full details of my crazy thought process, I guess you could check it out, but be warned, I flip flop faster than a flapjack.

My concept, for those of you familiar with the show Full Metal Alchemist is to create Alex Louis Armstrong, the Strong Arm Alchemist.

My game system is Pathfinder, which helps with the added feats and the improvement to many of the base classes, but from a resource standing point, I have access to literally any official 3.5 or PF book, no Dragon Mags though.


These are a few of the strengths of the character:

Excellent at Hand to Hand Combat.
Ability to create spikes (or "BEAUTIFUL ALCHEMY" STATUES OF HIMSELF, I guess they'd deal Bludgeoning damage instead) from the ground by energizing the molecules with electricity.
Able to add electric shocks to his punch.
Able to strike a projectile and turn it into a flying spike.
Ability to punch though walls.
Excellent Grappler.
Is, arguably, wonderful at Intimidate and Diplomacy checks by solely using his muscles.
Is a "Beautiful Artist."

I've worked a few things out, but I'm not sure how to execute the building. For a few of these, I figured out how to make them work mechanically.

For grappling, obviously Imp Grapple and Greater Grapple, which require Improved Unarmed Strike.

I had to build a custom magic item to emulate the Statue creation effect. (I'm not totally happy with this, but it works for what it does I suppose.)

The Electric damage from punches I figured could come from two sources, either levels in Monk in which he took the Monk of the Four Winds Alternate Class Feature from the Advanced Players Guide OR add shocking enchant to his fists.

I haven't found an exact way to do the "striking projectile" ability. I considered enchanting his fists with "throwing" and just fluff it that that's what he was doing, maybe through an Amulet of Mighty Fists, but I wasn't sure if that worked that way or not.

Hand to Hand combat might be the hardest part. I've had the most conflict with myself over the class/es used. I've considered Monk, Barbarian, Pugilist Fighter, Fist of the Forest, Sword Sage and even Warblade. I'm just not sure what would be best for this type of character. I had someone tell me that Warblade might be optimal and that with the "Throwing" quality, I could perform maneuvers at range. This seems pretty desirable, but I'm not 100% sure.

I plan the build for 20th level, because that's just how I always build my characters, as though they'd reach max potential, but it's also part of the reason I'm having such a hard time. 

So with rolled stats of 18, 18, 16, 15, 14, 13, which were witnessed by the potential DM btw, before Racial Modifiers or templates, I request from you Gameologists, please help me Min/Max Alex Louis Armstrong, the Strong Arm Alchemist.

[Garryl]

A psionic character with Tashalatora gets most of the Monk's unarmed combat features. The Crystal Shard and similar powers are basically shooting spikes, and you can use the energy powers for electricity and to break down walls (the sonic option ignores hardness, and there's not much mechanical difference between punching down a wall and shooting an energy ray at point blank against a wall). Grappling skill can come from powers like Expansion.

[Prime32]

I wish I could find the joke PrC I made for this guy... (Shirt Bond: You must wear the chosen shirt for at least five minutes per day to use your Strongarm Alchemist class features.)

The electricity seems more like a visual effect than something which could actually zap people. Otherwise some alchemist would have attacked someone standing in water that way. I agree with sonic damage being the type most worth pursuing.

Factotum lets him be awesome at random skills.

Stone Dragon maneuvers work well for this guy - consider making him a dwarf and entering the PrC for that school. Dream dwarf if you'd prefer to avoid a Cha penalty. Oh, and don't forget Jotunbrud.

If Tome is okay, you could go with Samurai (not katana-based - choose any weapon that's been PASSED DOWN THE FAMILY LINE FOR GENERATIONS)

[veekie]

The spikes are easily the Crystal[X] psionic powers I think.

[skydragonknight]

I made this class as a demonstration of both a strength-based "spellcaster" (manifester) and a single-attribute class. That said, Alex was a major inspiration for the class and while it does not perfectly duplicate his abilities it remains faithful to his archtype.
While not my *actual* recommendation, it should still be a fun read. The Musclemind
It's balanced for games where optimization/heavy spellcasting is encouraged, not for the casual low to normal-powered games.

My actual recommendation is a Monk 1/Psychic Warrior X with the Tashalatora feat (a psionic class advances monk damage/AC/flurry) and Expanded Knowledge(crystal shard) for the spikes.

[Maat_Mons]

I don't think having the throwing enhancement on your fists is actually going to work.  Your fists would have to separate from your body to reach your opponent, which is possible, but you have no special ability to reattach them. 

Blood wind (Spell Compendium 33) is a 1st level spell available to cleric, sorcerer, and wizard that lets you make unarmed strikes at range, as though using a thrown weapon with a 10-foot range increment, but you use your melee attack bonus and your fists aren't required to actually cross the distance between you and your opponent. 

If you're playing a psionic character, you might be able to convince your DM to allow you to create a psionic power that works like the spell.  If you can convince your DM to allow an item that duplicates the spell, a continuous version might cost around 8,000 gp, and a version that requires you to expend a swift action to activate it every round might cost around 2,000 gp. 

Full Metal Alchemist has given me a desire to play a cleric using spontaneous domain casting (Player's Handbook II 37) on the artifice domain (Eberron Campaign Setting 104).  Spontaneous casting of animate rope, wood shape, stone shape, minor creation, fabricate, major creation, hardening, true creation, and prismatic sphere, as well as +4 to craft checks and +1 caster level for creation spells seems like a good start for an alchemist-style character, though not the specific one you want to play. 

[X-Codes]

Divine Crusader will get you that domain in spades, if you want to go the caster route.  If not, then Shaper will get you most of the powers you would want, and can be combined with Tashalatora for good Unarmed Strike damage.  That said, Ardent with the Creation, Destruction, Physical Power, and Guardian mantles can also work.

Personally, however, I'm thinking Crusader/Divine Crusader/RKV with a dip to get Turn Undead.  Use Superior Unarmed Strike sans Monk to get more-than-adequate unarmed strike damage.

[Rasengan2theface]

I don't think having the throwing enhancement on your fists is actually going to work.  Your fists would have to separate from your body to reach your opponent, which is possible, but you have no special ability to reattach them. 

Blood Wind (Spell Compendium 33) is a 1st level spell available to cleric, sorcerer, and wizard that lets you make unarmed strikes at range, as though using a thrown weapon with a 10-foot range increment, but you use your melee attack bonus and your fists aren't required to actually cross the distance between you and your opponent. 

If you're playing a psionic character, you might be able to convince your DM to allow you to create a psionic power that works like the spell.  If you can convince your DM to allow an item that duplicates the spell, a continuous version might cost around 8,000 gp, and a version that requires you to expend a swift action to activate it every round might cost around 2,000 gp. 

The logic that I was given was that putting Throwing on an Amulet of Might Fists effectively made the hair on your knuckles a deadly weapon. It also fits it's means and purposes, but it would probably vary by DM if they'd allow it. A ring of Blood Wind on the other hand, that would probably be both better and cheaper and give the same effect, I'm surprised that I forgot about it.

If Tome is okay, you could go with Samurai (not katana-based - choose any weapon that's been PASSED DOWN THE FAMILY LINE FOR GENERATIONS)

I kinda like it except for two things. Firstly, it's from a source I've never heard of. Secondly, we typically don't allow splat books in our groups unless it's a book the DM personally owns and says it's ok.

I wish I knew/understood Psionics better. It just sounds like "Magic and Spells 2.0" most of the time. I really just don't see much of a difference. Frankly, I'm not a big fan of casters for the simple fact of "I win because I can cast this" spells. Heck, I play a Planar Shepherd in a campaign that doesn't do anything just because he doesn't want to and because I understand how powerful the PRC is. No one in the group actually knows or sees what his powers are until they do something that almost gets them killed or he's forced to.

[Gods_Trick]

Frankly, I'm not a big fan of casters for the simple fact of "I win because I can cast this" spells.

Heres an important clarification question first. Everything know you want can be done with magic or psionics, and you restrain yourself from using options outside your character concept. But you'd like Armstrong to be done sans casting classes, correct?

[Rasengan2theface]

Frankly, I'm not a big fan of casters for the simple fact of "I win because I can cast this" spells.

Heres an important clarification question first. Everything know you want can be done with magic or psionics, and you restrain yourself from using options outside your character concept. But you'd like Armstrong to be done sans casting classes, correct?

In thinking about it, perhaps I'm being a bit closed minded. I just don't like how you HAVE to be some sort of "caster" to be effective, particularly at high levels. That's always been a bit of a pet peeve of mine with D&D. Pathfinder helped to bridge that gap a bit, but it didn't exactly seal it.

In thinking about the Psionics aspect, I'm probably not a fan because I don't understand it well enough, but going back and rereading it over, Psionics does seem to be a proper route for this and I DID buy the PDF for Pathfinder's Psionic's Book "Psionics Unleashed." So putting it to some use would make sense.

Psychic Warrior seems to be the class of choice for this, but...I only know what I've read and that isn't much...

[Gods_Trick]

Frankly, I'm not a big fan of casters for the simple fact of "I win because I can cast this" spells.

Heres an important clarification question first. Everything know you want can be done with magic or psionics, and you restrain yourself from using options outside your character concept. But you'd like Armstrong to be done sans casting classes, correct?

In thinking about it, perhaps I'm being a bit closed minded. I just don't like how you HAVE to be some sort of "caster" to be effective, particularly at high levels. That's always been a bit of a pet peeve of mine with D&D. Pathfinder helped to bridge that gap a bit, but it didn't exactly seal it.

In thinking about the Psionics aspect, I'm probably not a fan because I don't understand it well enough, but going back and rereading it over, Psionics does seem to be a proper route for this and I DID buy the PDF for Pathfinder's Psionic's Book "Psionics Unleashed." So putting it to some use would make sense.

Psychic Warrior seems to be the class of choice for this, but...I only know what I've read and that isn't much...

*grins* Think of it as a great chance to learn lad, especially with the highly trained optimiser at BG helping you. I'll try and think up a psionic build that fits it well, if I'm not beaten to the punch.

[Rasengan2theface]

I envision that evil grin that I get that slowly grows across my face when I realize that the most amusing thing my druid can use on the Beholder is Blinding Spittle.

In thinking about, before I pass out for 8 hours before work, I'd greatly prefer him to be human, BUT, building him as a Half Giant would work too. In PF they get

• +2 Wis, +2 Str, -2 Dex
• Giant Blood - they now count as both Human and Giant, similar to Half-Elves and Half-Orcs. If you can mix 3.5 material with your Pathfinder, take a look at some human-only feats for them.
• Powerful Build: The LA may be gone, but this is still here!
• Survivor: Racial bonus to Survival checks; new and handy to have.
• Low-Light Vision: Half-giants can see twice as far as humans in conditions of dim light.
• Fire Acclimated: Half-giants receive a +2 racial bonus on saving throws against all fire spells and effects.
• Naturally Psionic: Half-giants receive Wild Talent as a bonus feat at 1st level. If a half-giant takes levels in a psionic class, he instead gains the Psionic Talent feat.
• Psionic Aptitude: When a half-giant takes a level in a favored class, he can choose to gain an additional power point instead of a hit point or skill point.

Powerful Build would basically give me Jotunbrud for free, which would be the human Bonus feat more or less, if I went that route. He also gets bonuses to the two stats that are most important if you build it Monk/Psychic Warrior route.

[skydragonknight]

Slap on Monastic Training and Tashalatora (which requires the former) and you've got a solid base.
Tashalatora is from Secrets of Sarlona (Eberron) and is basically the Swift Hunter feat of psionics and monks: levels in 1 psionic class stack with monk levels for unarmed damage, AC and flurry of blows.

[awaken DM golem]

  Shouldn't you max out Perform(Jazz)
... you know ... just because of the Louis Armstrong part ?!

[bkdubs123]

I made this class as a demonstration of both a strength-based "spellcaster" (manifester) and a single-attribute class. That said, Alex was a major inspiration for the class and while it does not perfectly duplicate his abilities it remains faithful to his archtype.
While not my *actual* recommendation, it should still be a fun read. The Musclemind
It's balanced for games where optimization/heavy spellcasting is encouraged, not for the casual low to normal-powered games.

Hehe. Huhuhehehuh. The Musclemind. I always did love that class. While it may not be skydragon's real recommendation it IS mine.

[X-Codes]

Shouldn't you max out Perform(Jazz)
... you know ... just because of the Louis Armstrong part ?!

Totally different genre there.  This isn't old-school Jazz music, this is Anime.

As for not wanting to be an overpowered caster-type: that's exactly what Alchemists are in that anime.  They're the casters.

[RelentlessImp]

Shouldn't you max out Perform(Jazz)
... you know ... just because of the Louis Armstrong part ?!

Totally different genre there.  This isn't old-school Jazz music, this is Anime.

As for not wanting to be an overpowered caster-type: that's exactly what Alchemists are in that anime.  They're the casters.

For Reference. (He's the bald guy with the tiny bit of blond hair)

[Littha]

Shouldn't you max out Perform(Jazz)
... you know ... just because of the Louis Armstrong part ?!

Totally different genre there.  This isn't old-school Jazz music, this is Anime.

As for not wanting to be an overpowered caster-type: that's exactly what Alchemists are in that anime.  They're the casters.

For Reference. (He's the bald guy with the tiny bit of blond hair)

Thats not exactly the video i would have chosen. The fight vs sloth or vs scar would be better for combat mechanics.

[skydragonknight]

Sadly the best one I could find is with spanish subs, but it really shows off his fighting skill.

[RelentlessImp]

Shouldn't you max out Perform(Jazz)
... you know ... just because of the Louis Armstrong part ?!

Totally different genre there.  This isn't old-school Jazz music, this is Anime.

As for not wanting to be an overpowered caster-type: that's exactly what Alchemists are in that anime.  They're the casters.

For Reference. (He's the bald guy with the tiny bit of blond hair)

Thats not exactly the video i would have chosen. The fight vs sloth or vs scar would be better for combat mechanics.

But it perfectly demonstrates the BEAUTIFUL ALCHEMIST thing he's got going on.