Author Topic: Two weapon fighting or Two handed weapon fighting Swordsage?  (Read 6395 times)

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Dusk Eclipse

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Two weapon fighting or Two handed weapon fighting Swordsage?
« on: February 08, 2011, 08:58:05 PM »
I am trying to join a RHoD game, and I have decided that I want to play a swordsage; but I am not sure on whether I should do a Two-weapon fighter or a two hander. So I want to hear some opinions on both of them

I have to admit that I have never thought on how to build a two hander swordsage; but I assume it would put much more emphasis on high-damagage strikes (like Insightful Strike, Emerald Razor, Ruby Nightmare Blade, Rabid Bear strike) as opposed to boost.

I haven't really gave much thought to this so any advice would be extremely helpful.

skydragonknight

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Re: Two weapon fighting or Two handed weapon fighting Swordsage?
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2011, 09:06:24 PM »
Two-handed style would be Emerald Razor + Power Attack. Then grab discipline weapons for extra attack bonuses to power attack while using strikes.

Two weapon style would be Shadow Blade feat + Assassin's stance + flanking/invisibility boosts. Desert Wind +fire-damage boosts also affect both weapons.

Not sure how either plays at high levels, to be honest. Though until higher Nightmare Blades are available there's generally more support for TWF-style in the available manuvers....Tiger Claw, Desert Wind and Shadow Hand all love TWF.
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

Dusk Eclipse

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Re: Two weapon fighting or Two handed weapon fighting Swordsage?
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2011, 09:15:42 PM »
I see.... well the thing with TWF is while I love it, I have played a fair share of them (though for some reason, I haven't played a two-weapon fighting swordsage.) so I want to try a two-hander; but at the same time, the dual wielding warrior calls to me.. and I just recently found this homebrew weapons... which seems to fix some of the worst problems of TWF.
[spoiler] Twin dao
One-Handed Martial (dao) or Exotic Melee Weapon (twin dao)
Damage: 1d8
Critical: 18-20/x2
Range Increment: -
Type: Slashing
Weight: 4 lbs
Cost: 10 gp (dao) OR 400 gp (twin dao)

Special
The twin dao is both a single weapon and a set of two weapons. Both are masterwork, and fit into the same scabbard as though they were a single sword. Twin dao must be used as a set; attempting to use a single twin dao as a normal dao gives a -4 penalty to attack rolls due to the strange balance the swords have. A twin dao may, however, be used as a single sword when held together. All feats that apply to normal dao (such as Weapon Focus) also apply to twin dao, whether used as a single sword or when used as a set.

When used as a pair, one in each hand, however, the twin dao show their true colours. They are perfectly balanced for wielding in two hands; while they are one-handed weapons, they can be used as if they were light for the purposes of two-weapon fighting, but only when paired together. Additionally, the wielder may add their full strength bonus to damage to both dao as if wielding them in their primary hand.[/spoiler]

I also have been entertaining the idea of a character who followed Miyamoto Mushashi comment on fighting

Two weapon for many enemies
1 for single enemies.

But I am sure that would be extremele feat starved and gold hungry.

Edit: Actually upon a closer reading, the twin dao work extremely well for my idea, I would only need to select power attack, and I wouldn't feel I am loosing upon my build when using single attack strikes...
« Last Edit: February 08, 2011, 09:18:41 PM by Dusk Eclipse »

skydragonknight

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Re: Two weapon fighting or Two handed weapon fighting Swordsage?
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2011, 10:28:53 PM »
Respectable choice. Not a Shadow Hand weapon but full Str to both and PA-able makes up for that. A possible route would be to take Leap Attack with the Tiger Claw "jumping" maneuvers as there is some synergy both mechanically and thematically. If you can live with a Dex penalty, then consider a Dragonborn with "Wings" aspect which gets a +10 racial bonus on Jump checks and would be a good choice in that respect.

Another route you could take would be as a Warblade (perhaps with a Swordsage dip for key maneuvers). Better BAB helps Power Attack and you'd still get high-end Tiger Claw and Diamond Mind maneuvers.
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

Dusk Eclipse

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Re: Two weapon fighting or Two handed weapon fighting Swordsage?
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2011, 10:35:09 PM »
I would prefer a more swordsage focused build, but I guess a Swordsage 4/Warblade 1 (assuming the DM decides to start at level 5, he is not sure between 5 or 6) would be pretty nice... I would have IL 4 for Swordsage maneuvers and IL 3 for warblades (hello there IHS/Wall of Blades, it is my pleasure to meet you) would have to delay assassin stance till level 6 but I think more maneuvers would be worth it.

As far as races go, I was starting to consider being a Valenar elf... and if the DM allows it I might go Dragonborn, but I am leery of using it, since due the nature of the module it seems a bit more meta-gamey than what I am comfortable with, though after the Skull Gorge bridge battle it wlil definitely make sense RP-wise.

Oh and the DM said it would be most likely be set in Eberron.

Lycanthromancer

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Re: Two weapon fighting or Two handed weapon fighting Swordsage?
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2011, 11:34:31 PM »
I would prefer a more swordsage focused build, but I guess a Swordsage 4/Warblade 1 (assuming the DM decides to start at level 5, he is not sure between 5 or 6) would be pretty nice... I would have IL 4 for Swordsage maneuvers and IL 3 for warblades (hello there IHS/Wall of Blades, it is my pleasure to meet you) would have to delay assassin stance till level 6 but I think more maneuvers would be worth it.

As far as races go, I was starting to consider being a Valenar elf... and if the DM allows it I might go Dragonborn, but I am leery of using it, since due the nature of the module it seems a bit more meta-gamey than what I am comfortable with, though after the Skull Gorge bridge battle it wlil definitely make sense RP-wise.

Oh and the DM said it would be most likely be set in Eberron.
I say holding off on Assassin's Stance until 6 should be fine, since you can snap up Craven while you're at it.
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

Dusk Eclipse

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Re: Two weapon fighting or Two handed weapon fighting Swordsage?
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2011, 10:52:21 AM »
I wasn't planning on craven, the penalty on saves against fear would be lethal, considering the fearful presence of the Dragons, besides this an Eberron game and thus Champions of ruin is not on the allowed sources.

Here is the list of allowed sources
[spoiler]Players Handbook I & II
Monster Manuals I to V (Ask first about stuff here)
Arms and Equipment Guide (Ask first about stuff here)
All Completes
Cityscape
Dungeonscape
Expanded Psionics Handbook
Fiend Folio (Ask first about stuff here)
Fiendish Codex I & II (Ask first about stuff here)
Frostburn
Heroes of Battle
Heroes of Horror
Libris Mortis
Lords of Madness (Ask first about stuff here)
Magic Item Compendium
Miniatures Handbook (Ask first about stuff here)
All Races (Faerun is not allowed, ask first about stuff here)
Sandstorm
Savage Species (No to monstrous characters, ask first about stuff)
Spell Compendium
Stormwrack
Tome of Battle

City of Stormreach
Dragonmarked
Dragons of Eberron (if it does have player stuff)
Eberron Campaign Setting
Explorers Handbook
Faiths of Eberron
Five Nations'
Forge of War
Magic of Eberron
Player's Guide to Eberron
Secrets of Sarlona
Secrets of Xen'drik
Sharn City of Towers[/spoiler]


Endarire

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Re: Two weapon fighting or Two handed weapon fighting Swordsage?
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2011, 08:55:51 PM »
Hood can multi-wield.

You need Roof Jumper (Cityscape 62) since Battle Jump (Unapproachable East) is disallowed.
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

Lycanthromancer

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Re: Two weapon fighting or Two handed weapon fighting Swordsage?
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2011, 09:52:39 PM »
If you were an LA +1 thri-kreen, you could do both.

That +30 on Jump checks would be handy as well.
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

Dusk Eclipse

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Re: Two weapon fighting or Two handed weapon fighting Swordsage?
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2011, 10:02:37 PM »
Yeah, thanks but but no thanks, I decided to go Half-Elf*  Swordsage 4/Warblade 1/Swordsage +1

Stats (rolled)
Str 18 (17 originally but I used the level 4 stat bump) Dex 16 Con 14 Int 12 Wis 16 Cha 10

Maneuvers choices as follows: [spoiler]
1st level
Burning blade
Distracting Ember
Saphire Nightmare Blade
Mighty throw (to be changed into Baffling defense next level up)
Shadow Blade Technique
Sudden leap

2nd level maneuvers
Flashing Sun
Cloak of Deception
Rabid Wolf Strike
Emerald Razor (Warblade)
Wall of Blades (Warblade)
Mountain Hammer (Warblade

3rd level maneuvers
Soaring Raptor Strike  (not really sure about this one though)

Stances
1st level
Child of Shadows
Step of the Wind
Hunter's Sense (Warblade)

3rd level
Assassin's Stance[/spoiler]

Feats:
Power Attack
Two-Weapon fighting (the whole tree got condenced into an scaling feat)
EWP Twin Dao
Half-Elf Bonus: Adaptive Style



*I used a modified Half-Elf +2 to the ability score of my choice (con in this case) and the human bonus feat + all the normal goodies of half elf.

Lycanthromancer

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Re: Two weapon fighting or Two handed weapon fighting Swordsage?
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2011, 10:15:53 PM »
Yeah, thanks but but no thanks, I decided to go Half-Elf*  Swordsage 4/Warblade 1/Swordsage +1
Thri-kreen eat elves.
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

Dusk Eclipse

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Re: Two weapon fighting or Two handed weapon fighting Swordsage?
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2011, 10:19:49 PM »
To be honest I am a bit tired of non-humanoid races a bit, one of my friends ALWAYS and I mean ALWAYS insists on playing something extremely weird straight out of the MM, last one was an awakened gelatineous Cube.

Besides, Eberron elves, specifically Valenar elves are awesome
« Last Edit: February 09, 2011, 10:22:11 PM by Dusk Eclipse »

BeholderSlayer

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Re: Two weapon fighting or Two handed weapon fighting Swordsage?
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2011, 10:21:06 PM »
Yeah, thanks but but no thanks, I decided to go Half-Elf*  Swordsage 4/Warblade 1/Swordsage +1
Thri-kreen House cats eat elves.
Fixed
Hi Welcome
[spoiler]
Allow me to welcome you both with my literal words and with an active display of how much you fit in by being tone deaf, dumb, and uncritical of your babbling myself.[/spoiler]

Lycanthromancer

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Re: Two weapon fighting or Two handed weapon fighting Swordsage?
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2011, 10:26:43 PM »
Yeah, thanks but but no thanks, I decided to go Half-Elf*  Swordsage 4/Warblade 1/Swordsage +1
Thri-kreen House cats eat elves.
Fixed
Because elves are pussy-whipped?
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]