Author Topic: How Ignore DR of Armour?  (Read 2743 times)

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Bortasz

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How Ignore DR of Armour?
« on: February 05, 2011, 03:13:18 PM »
I try convince my DM and Players to use alternative rules from Unearthed Arcana 3.5.

More precisely a Defence Bonus + Armour as Damage Reduction. Of course witch little adjustment ;)

All Armour AC is turned in to DR.

The Players and DM afraid that this will kill the balance and that DR is to powerful.

Can you please give a argument in this dispute? More precisely what weapons/magic enhancement Feats Spells etcetera ignore DR from the Armour?

Any Ideas? My is Incorporeal touch of Undead. Any Others?
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Solo

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Re: How Ignore DR of Armour?
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2011, 03:14:36 PM »
Suggest they run a game with it and find out first hand.

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snakeman830

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Re: How Ignore DR of Armour?
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2011, 03:16:28 PM »
+1 AC= 5% less damage you take from most attacks.

DR1/-- = 1 less damage you take from bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage.


Honestly, I'd prefer the Armor Class for most of the game.  You can get around Damage Reduction by doing any kind of damage that isn't Bludgeoning, Piercing, or Slashing.
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Prime32

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Re: How Ignore DR of Armour?
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2011, 03:22:26 PM »
There's a bunch of martial maneuvers that ignore DR, most of them in the Stone Dragon school.

Honestly, I'd prefer the Armor Class for most of the game.  You can get around Damage Reduction by doing any kind of damage that isn't Bludgeoning, Piercing, or Slashing.
Heck, even then, a spell that deals one of those damage types will penetrate it.
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Bortasz

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Re: How Ignore DR of Armour?
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2011, 03:37:47 PM »
Guys I say that we take also a Defence Bonus Rule.... You know a +6 to AC for naked Fighter at 1 lvl... and +12 to naked Fighter at 18 lvl... And that protect from touch spells, But don't stack witch AC from Armours... So +6 from Defence Bonus that protect against disintegration or +5 from Breastplate that don't protect from disintegration?
That make a Armours Useless

So to make them useful we change there AC do DR So now I Have +6 to AC from Defence Bonus and 5/- DR from Breastplate... Also Magic enhancement of armour give them greater DR...

My DM and other Players afraid that... So what Spells and others attack ignore DR?
Radical Taoist
[spoiler]It bears saying: if up against a logic-impervious DM who thinks Core is balanced and Psionics*  isn't, then the most powerful way to disprove that is to play a C.o.D. (Cleric or Druid). Noncore material will not be necessary unless you are going for pure overkill (Draconic Wildshape? Divine Metamagic?). So by all means, if you must win that argument, take you C.o.D. to town. Annihilate the opposition. Make the NPCs and other players scream "Oh no, it's C.o.D.zilla!!!!!" in badly dubbed English. Breathe radioactive fire. Knock down buildings. Then stomp out of the burning Tokyo that is the ruins of the game and swim off into the ocean, seeking a DM with some basic cognitive functions. [/profile]

Prime32

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Re: How Ignore DR of Armour?
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2011, 04:00:13 PM »
My DM and other Players afraid that... So what Spells and others attack ignore DR?
2/3 of the posts in this thread explained that. ??? All damage-dealing spells (even if they deal physical damage), and some maneuvers including the mountain hammer chain.
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The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

telehax

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Re: How Ignore DR of Armour?
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2011, 02:28:43 AM »
I'm pretty sure DR still works on spell-based physical damage.

bkdubs123

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Re: How Ignore DR of Armour?
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2011, 02:37:21 AM »
I'm pretty sure DR still works on spell-based physical damage.

Nah, spell-based physical damage is by definition magical. Unless the armor grants DR/-- the spells will overcome it. For that matter any creature with natural attacks that also has DR X/magic will overcome the armor's DR.

telehax

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bkdubs123

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Re: How Ignore DR of Armour?
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2011, 02:48:54 AM »
Yes, I had just noticed that. :blush

So, bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage can't overcome the DR unless the game allows Tome of Battle. Of course, if the DM thinks that Full Plate offering DR 4/-- is overpowered... I have a sneaking suspicion that he wouldn't touch ToB with a 10ft pole.

If the DM is worried about the DR he should remember that any elemental damage will blow past it. As well as any bludgeoning/piercing/slashing attack that deals REAL damage. Ahem. Seriously, a Greatsword wielded by a guy with Str 14 deals 2d6+3 damage per attack, for an average of 10 damage on each hit. Your breastplate doesn't grant DR 5/-- it grants DR 2/--. You're still taking 80% of the damage from a below average 1st level attack, and you can't even afford that Breastplate at 1st level.

telehax

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Re: How Ignore DR of Armour?
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2011, 02:50:52 AM »
on the plus side, you now have an easily available counter for TK.

bkdubs123

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Re: How Ignore DR of Armour?
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2011, 03:03:07 AM »
I also just noticed that the original poster is assuming that they aren't operating precisely by the standards of the Unearthed Arcana rules for Armor as DR, and are, in theory, simply ruling that whatever armor bonus to AC an armor would normally grant is instead converted to DR X/--.

So, the Breastplate is granting DR 5/--. But, still, just remind the DM that his meleeing monsters usually have a better attack bonus than a PC meleer, and remind him further to use Power Attack. A lot.

For an even more subpar example, let's say you're wearing a Chain Shirt at 1st level and you're a Fighter with Dex 13. You've got an AC of 17 and DR 4/--. Not too bad. Your party faces two Orc Warriors both with Str 20 with Power Attack and wielding Longswords. They run in, wielding those Longswords in both hands, and they swing in Power Attacking for 1 each. Their attacks are at +5 (1 better than your Fighter's even with the penalty from PA) and deal 1d8+7 damage, for an average of 11.5 damage. If they were coming at you with Glaives or Greatswords that's a whole lot more damage (14.5 with the Glaive, 16 even with the Greatsword). Suddenly that Armor as DR doesn't look so scary.

Hell, ALSO remind him that any enemies' natural armor would grant them an equal amount of DR/--.

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: How Ignore DR of Armour?
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2011, 03:17:27 AM »
I'm pretty sure DR still works on spell-based physical damage.
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Sohala

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Re: How Ignore DR of Armour?
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2011, 12:06:59 PM »
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