Author Topic: Re: Is the role of Stealthy Dude a viable role in a party of non-stealthers?  (Read 1201 times)

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X-Codes

  • Organ Grinder
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So your answer is to shout him down? Really? Thats really uncool of you x-codes.
Sunic is impervious to logic, reason, argument, flaming, humor, trolling, sarcasm, and a few other things I'm sure I've missed.  Since most of the people here are too polite to do so, I figured a nice, simple STFU hasn't been tried yet, but obviously no dice.  The man insists on being a loud, obnoxious dumbshit on the internet.

Regardless, my original point before Sunic started trolling:

The uses:
Get form point A to point B undetected.
Get forewarning on an upcoming encounter.
Set an ambush and lure enemies to it.
Soften up enemies before an encounter starts.

The practicality:
Before levels 5-7, high Hide/Move Silently mods and the Darkstalker feat are all that's absolutely necessary to be decently good at being stealthy.  Darkvision is a problem, yes, but hardly insurmountable.  If the sneak has their own Darkvision, then they can easily perceive other creatures with Darkvision.  The hide skill only requires that the character in question have cover/concealment at the beginning and end of their turn.  Given that it's a free action, a rogue could flash his family jewels at an orc from the periphery of it's darkvision before moving back outside of it's sight range, and the orc wouldn't be the wiser if it fails it's spot check (likely with it's piss-poor spot modifier).

Since Sunic clings so desperately to this CR:HD ratio thing, I'll point out the problem there, too.  Most monsters a given party fights do not, in fact, have a CR roughly equal to the each of a party's members.  They tend to be about 2 points lower, because that's how the EL of groups of monsters scale.  Further, monsters may have lots of ranks in perception skills, but they have few items that augment said skills, and won't necessarily even have a good ability score backing it up.  By the time the CR:HD discrepancy requires it, a sneak can easily afford +5 competence bonuses to Hide and Move Silently, if not +10.  Other things such as item familiars, being small, racial bonuses to skills, etc. can likewise push an optimized sneak off the RNG, and remember that there are no critical successes or failures with skills.

It's only from that point on that some measure of magic is needed.  Not invisibility, though.  Invisibility is barely a luxury, since things canceling Invisibility are becoming increasingly prevalent, but luckily most of them have short durations.  Silence is nice to have, since it gets rid of your Move Silently skill tax, but at this level that's not terribly special.  Special senses are taken care of by Darkstalker, and Darkvision by a Ring of the Darkhidden, both cheap and easily accessible.  Magical darkness actually isn't total darkness, anymore.  If you have darkvision, you can still see through it.  The real role of magic here is to turn your own inherent stealthiness into your group's inherent stealthiness.

Depending on tier and level, it's possible that nobody really cares about whether or not you can sneak past a dragon, because they're instead either figuring out the most effective method they have to blow up the world or figuring out a counter-measure to some other guy trying to blow up the world.  That said, this really only sets in at tiers 1-2 at levels 15-18+.  Even in the most high-powered games, stealth can be useful in the low teens.

So, does anyone other than Sunic have an issue with what was said above?