Author Topic: thoughts/question?: a swift hunter/ambusher build  (Read 3144 times)

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SylvanPrincess

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thoughts/question?: a swift hunter/ambusher build
« on: February 03, 2011, 09:30:33 PM »
ive decided (i think) to use the riposte scout variant class feature found here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a

the dm has ruled that i can use riposte to qualify for feats that require a min skirmish.

im working on a swift hunter/swift ambusher build. would basically be ranger 4/scout 3/rogue 13. Ranger 4 would be to take distracting attack vcf, and get a bonus feat (non magic ranger variant gets a feat at lev 4). if it works the way i think it does, it would have 5d6 skirmish riposte and 7d6 sneak attack.

any thoughts on if riposte and sneak attack can be maxed? and how?

(build idea below, on post 3)
« Last Edit: February 06, 2011, 04:08:09 AM by SylvanPrincess »

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Re: thoughts/question?: a swift hunter/ambusher build
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2011, 05:31:07 PM »
This looks like an early attempt at the 4e defender concept.
Interesting houserule, although not my cup of tea.
Here's the ability (if someone else can help) ...

Riposte

While most scouts rely on mobility to overcome their opponents, some focus instead on taking advantage of the openings their foes provide in combat when making their own attacks.

Class: Scout.

Level: 1st.

Replaces: If you select this class feature, you do not gain skirmish or any later improvements to that class feature.

Ability: Any time the scout attacks a foe that has made a melee or ranged weapon attack against her within the past round (whether or not the attack hit you), her attack deals an extra 1d6 points of damage. This extra damage increases by 1d6 for every four levels gained above 1st (2d6 at 5th, 3d6 at 9th, 4d6 at 13th, and 5d6 at 17th).

This extra damage applies only against living creatures that have a discernable anatomy. Undead, constructs, oozes, plants, incorporeal creatures, and creatures immune to extra damage from critical hits are not vulnerable to this additional damage. The scout must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. She can apply this extra damage to ranged attacks, but only if the target is within 30 feet.

At 3rd level, the scout gains a +1 competence bonus to Armor Class against any creature to which she has dealt riposte damage, as described above. This bonus lasts until the start of her next turn. If she deals riposte damage to more than one creature in a round, she gains this bonus against all of them; it is not limited to a single foe. This bonus improves by 1 for every four levels gained above 3rd (+2 at 7th, +3 at 11th, +4 at 15th, and +5 at 19th level).

The scout loses this ability when wearing medium or heavy armor or when carrying a medium or heavy load.

SylvanPrincess

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Re: thoughts/question?: a swift hunter/ambusher build
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2011, 04:07:17 AM »
thanks for re-posting that here :)

the new build im looking at is urban ranger 2/scout 3/swashbuckler 3/rogue 12, with the feats swift hunter and daring outlaw early, and swift hunter later. this is going to be a 2 weapon fighter, probably fists and daggers.

effective character levels:
scout 17
rogue 15
ranger 5 (lower, but ok as it applies riposte damage to its fav enemies, including those normally immune to such things)
swashbuckler 15

notes
-16 bab, 4 attacks baby!
-sneak attack 8d6 (5d6 if the psychic rogue is used instead)
-riposte 5d6/4ac
-grace +2
-dodge +3. with riposte adding +4, thats a 7 dodge bonus!
-2 favored enemies
-int to damage
-fast movement +10
-rogue special ability (opportunist?)
-weapon finesse
-battle fortitude +1
-go to ground (scout alt feature, replaces trackless step)
-plus evasion and the rogues trap and uncanny dodge abilities

mighta missed something, but this basically covers it. im still working out riposte and whether or not its worth it, but i think ima try it as a learning experience. i envision this character being a badass bitch (starbuck style) who is good at brawling hand to hand- when someone strikes at her, she can deal massive damage back at them in a flurry of strikes. i need to figure out a way to get sneak attack damage every time i riposte. karmic strike (OA) is a good option, but i need to be hit to make it work. get hit, and deal 13d6+STR+INT retaliatory damage, per hit!

Shiki

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Re: thoughts/question?: a swift hunter/ambusher build
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2011, 05:14:02 AM »
Check out if you can get Improved SkirmishCS a bit altered (Improved Riposte?!) to fit with this. An extra +2d6/+2AC cannot be bad.

For denying Dex, Blurstrike weapon property from MIC is a start.

Since you are going for high Dex, Combat Reflexes+Robilar's GambitPH2 might be a nice way to get extra attacks. Also, Double Hit from Miniatures Handbook.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2011, 05:18:15 AM by Shiki »
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Re: thoughts/question?: a swift hunter/ambusher build
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2011, 06:23:09 AM »
thanks for re-posting that here :)
this is going to be a 2 weapon fighter, probably fists and daggers.

If you are mostly trying to max damage, you could try without scout:
monk1
Rogue 1
Sword sage 2
Swashbuckler16

Feats: Imp nat attack, Supperior unarmed strike, feat that stacks monk & swash, shadow blade
Monk's belt
Race: Warforged with battle fist, permanent enlarge

BAB:+19 (using partial)
Unarmed damage: 9d8+dex to damage+intelligence to damage
Sneak attack: +10d6
About 90 damage per hit. Get a friend to cast Greater Mighty Wallop and it will go into the several hundreds.

I think there was a way to stack Monk, rogue and scout for even more damage, but less BAB. But this way you'd have heaps of good skills including stealth and spot/listen it you want.




Unarmed damage
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SylvanPrincess

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Re: thoughts/question?: a swift hunter/ambusher build
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2011, 02:25:04 PM »
Check out if you can get Improved SkirmishCS a bit altered (Improved Riposte?!) to fit with this. An extra +2d6/+2AC cannot be bad.

For denying Dex, Blurstrike weapon property from MIC is a start.

Since you are going for high Dex, Combat Reflexes+Robilar's GambitPH2 might be a nice way to get extra attacks. Also, Double Hit from Miniatures Handbook.

im sure i could take improved riposte, the dm isnt lenient per se, but such things as that (a simple change PLUS a feat slot taken) i think he'll allow it. nice

rob's gambit is also interesting, by the time i can take it, i would have a very high dodge bonus. they strike AT me, which grants riposte, and would allow sneak attack. nice thought! this is better that the skirmish build with gambit i think, cuz you dont need to run around lol. combat reflexes is a must too.

i was going to take ranger for bab and 2 weapon fighting, as well as riposte damage vs fav enemies normally immune to precision damage, but i could just take the feat penetrating strike (i think thats the one that allows precision damage to fav enemies normally immune to it-and it would be sneak attack and riposte damage then instead of just riposte)

thanks for re-posting that here :)
this is going to be a 2 weapon fighter, probably fists and daggers.

If you are mostly trying to max damage, you could try without scout:
monk1
Rogue 1
Sword sage 2
Swashbuckler16

Feats: Imp nat attack, Supperior unarmed strike, feat that stacks monk & swash, shadow blade
Monk's belt
Race: Warforged with battle fist, permanent enlarge

BAB:+19 (using partial)
Unarmed damage: 9d8+dex to damage+intelligence to damage
Sneak attack: +10d6
About 90 damage per hit. Get a friend to cast Greater Mighty Wallop and it will go into the several hundreds.

I think there was a way to stack Monk, rogue and scout for even more damage, but less BAB. But this way you'd have heaps of good skills including stealth and spot/listen it you want.

i am set on human, and i wont be using tome of battle :( . this is a little MAD too, as you will be counting on a high wis for ac, and a high int for damage, as well as high dex, con, and maybe str. ive considered the rogue/swash/monk build before:) .oh yeah, and i want to be chaotic good. i am trying to based this character on kara "starbuck" thrace from battlestar gallactica
« Last Edit: February 06, 2011, 02:35:11 PM by SylvanPrincess »

bearsarebrown

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Re: thoughts/question?: a swift hunter/ambusher build
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2011, 02:28:00 PM »
I'm going to try to talk you out of taking Riposte. It's an ability which requires someone to make an attack against you. When you face spell casters you do shit damage. When the enemy is hitting someone else you do shit damage. And you have to let things attack you. When you're dead you do shit damage. Skirmish is really easy to activate and will otherwise provide the same benefits.

SylvanPrincess

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Re: thoughts/question?: a swift hunter/ambusher build
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2011, 02:44:34 PM »
I'm going to try to talk you out of taking Riposte. It's an ability which requires someone to make an attack against you. When you face spell casters you do shit damage. When the enemy is hitting someone else you do shit damage. And you have to let things attack you. When you're dead you do shit damage. Skirmish is really easy to activate and will otherwise provide the same benefits.

i see your points, and i know what youre saying. counters could be:
Quote
It's an ability which requires someone to make an attack against you.
im going to get attacked anyway? i hate asking the question every round "do i have 10 feet so i can skirmish?" lol

Quote
When you face spell casters you do shit damage.
wouldnt i be doing the same shit damage with skirmish though? and theres nothing that says i cant run to said caster and hit'im!

Quote
And you have to let things attack you.
im going to get attacked anyway?

Quote
When you're dead you do shit damage.
alas, a very true point, but one equally applied to a skirmish scout

i know what youre saying Bears, and riposte IS more situational. but think it is pretty equivalent, no? and it applies EVERY time when youre in combat and getting attacked, something not necessarily true of skirmish. this character is more of a modern boxer i guess

bearsarebrown

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Re: thoughts/question?: a swift hunter/ambusher build
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2011, 02:49:26 PM »
Riposte will never work on the first round of combat. Most combats last 3 to 4 rounds. Immediately it's only 3/4th the effectiveness of Skirmish. You're going to be hit anyways? You should try not to get hit. Spellcasters become an even bigger problem because they aren't attacking you with weapons. And I hope your DM is allowing Natural Attacks to set off Riposte or it's dead useless. Skirmish can be activated with a high Tumble Check, 30k gold, a swift action, blah blah and tons of other ways.

SylvanPrincess

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Re: thoughts/question?: a swift hunter/ambusher build
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2011, 03:13:12 PM »
Riposte will never work on the first round of combat. Most combats last 3 to 4 rounds. Immediately it's only 3/4th the effectiveness of Skirmish. You're going to be hit anyways? You should try not to get hit. Spellcasters become an even bigger problem because they aren't attacking you with weapons. And I hope your DM is allowing Natural Attacks to set off Riposte or it's dead useless. Skirmish can be activated with a high Tumble Check, 30k gold, a swift action, blah blah and tons of other ways.

i never said i was going to get "hit anyways"  lol, i said ATTACKED :) . and thats all riposte requires. im not saying its as good as skirmish, but i dont think it is quite as bad as you say. youre totally correct about casters though as the ability says "melee or ranged weapon attack". i dont however see where it says natural attacks dont count...
Quote
Any time the scout attacks a foe that has made a melee or ranged weapon attack against her within the past round (whether or not the attack hit you), her attack deals an extra 1d6 points of damage. This extra damage increases by 1d6 for every four levels gained above 1st (2d6 at 5th, 3d6 at 9th, 4d6 at 13th, and 5d6 at 17th).
and in any case, i always have 8d6 sneak attack to fall back on. i know it wont be that high in early levels but....

this is not a uber optimized build, but it will be fun to play, and thats what im shooting for. very good points about riposte, that was the point of this thread, to determine its pros and cons. i appreciate it
« Last Edit: February 06, 2011, 04:46:29 PM by SylvanPrincess »