Author Topic: Damage Reduction and Armor  (Read 2660 times)

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bkdubs123

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Damage Reduction and Armor
« on: February 01, 2011, 09:31:04 AM »
Further thoughts on rewriting 3.5. In an ideal environment, where ToB style weapon damage is the norm, double the DR granted by manufactured armor and introduce the Improved Toughness feat.

Damage Reduction: Whenever you are dealt damage from any source, be it a Troll's warclub or a Necromancer's shadowbolt, if you have Damage Reduction, abbreviated as DR, you ignore some of that damage. Some DR is overcome by special materials, others by special damage types, and still rarer some DR cannot be overcome by any means. Damage Reduction always has a given value, such as DR 5 or DR 30 and anything that is able to overcome the DR is expressed after a "slash" like so: DR 8/electricity or fire.

Armor of all kinds, including Natural Armor, grants Damage Reduction of a value equal to the armor bonus to AC. Different types of Armor grants DR which can be overcome in different ways.

Padded grants DR X/acid, fire, piercing, slashing or sonic.
Leather and Studded Leather grant DR X/fire, piercing or sonic.
Chain Shirt grants DR X/bludgeoning, cold, electricity, force or sonic.
Hide Armor grants DR X/adamantine or fire.
Banded Mail grants DR X/adamantine or sonic.
Chainmail grants DR X/bludgeoning, cold, electricity or force.
Scale Mail grants DR X/adamantine or electricity.
Halfplate grants DR X/adamantine or electricity.
Plate Mail grants DR X/adamantine.

Armors that come with an attached helmet (Hide Armor being the notable exception) are protected against sonic attacks. Damage Reduction granted by armors made from adamantine or dragonhide/scale are no longer overcome by adamantine weapons. Other special materials may be able to shore up the weaknesses in an armor's DR in other ways. Natural Armor DR is always overcome by adamantine and if a creature with this DR has an elemental subtype their DR will be overcome by the opposing elements. For example, a Greater Fire Elemental with Natural Armor +8 will have DR 8/adamantine or cold.

Damage Reduction from multiple sources always stacks, however a character is not able to benefit from both a suit of armor and from natural armor at the same time. For example, imagine a Warrior with DR 4/-- as a class feature and wearing a suit of +2 Dragonhide Armor which would grant him DR 5/fire. Against all non-fire damage he has DR 9 and against fire damage he has DR 4. That Warrior could not gain DR from both his suit of armor and from Natural Armor because he can only benefit from one armor bonus.

Damage Reduction, as shown above, can be granted separately from Armor by any number of means (as Class Features, through spell or maneuver effects, magic items, etc).

Damage Resistance: It is possible for a creature to be especially resistant to a single type of damage, be it slashing, electricity, or even force. This resistance is noted as [Type] Resistance X, for example, a Zombie has Bludgeoning Resistance 5 and Cold Resistance 5. Damage Resistance and Damage Reduction always stack.

Revised Feats
Toughness
Prerequisite: Fort +2
Benefit: You gain Natural Armor granting an armor bonus to AC equal to your Constitution modifier. This armor provides you with Damage Reduction of the same value overcome by adamantine. This armor has no maximum Dexterity bonus, no armor check penalty, no spell failure, and does not hamper your movement in any way. This armor can be magically enhanced in the same way that manufactured armors can.
Special: If you have an elemental subtype such as Fire your DR is overcome by one or more other damage types determined by your subtype.

Improved Toughness (For a ToB-style environment)
Prerequisite: Fort +3, Toughness
Benefit: Double the DR granted by your Natural Armor. Furthermore, you have a 5% chance per point of Constitution modifier to ignore critical hits and precision damage.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2011, 06:10:06 PM by bkdubs123 »

RobbyPants

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Re: Damage Reduction and Armor
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2011, 11:08:43 AM »
It's a cute idea all in all, but stuff like this:

Padded grants DR X/acid, fire, piercing, slashing and sonic.

is generally more than I want to keep track of every time I take damage.  Particularly if the guy is shooting flaming arrows or something.  I kind of like the Toughness feats.  It's better than just getting more HP.
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Garryl

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Re: Damage Reduction and Armor
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2011, 01:50:48 PM »
Did you notice that an adamantine morningstar overcomes all of the DR you posted for armors?

Also, it's a "slash", not a "backslash" for expressing DR. Backslash is when the line goes from top left to bottom right ( \ ), regular old slash is bottom left to top right ( / ).
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Prime32

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Re: Damage Reduction and Armor
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2011, 01:57:58 PM »
Did you notice that an adamantine morningstar overcomes all of the DR you posted for armors?
What were morningstars typically used for? :p
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RobbyPants

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Re: Damage Reduction and Armor
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2011, 03:14:04 PM »
Actually, I realized a typo: all of those armor DR lists should use "or" not "and".  Otherwise, my boolean algebra tells me that you would need a Corrosive, Flaming, Thundering scythe to overcome padded armor.
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Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
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I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
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Steve: You underestimate my power!
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Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
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bkdubs123

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Re: Damage Reduction and Armor
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2011, 06:07:39 PM »
Actually, I realized a typo: all of those armor DR lists should use "or" not "and".  Otherwise, my boolean algebra tells me that you would need a Corrosive, Flaming, Thundering scythe to overcome padded armor.

lol, right. I'll fix it.

Also, as far as flaming arrows are concerned, I suppose I'll have to look into perhaps using a method similar to how 4e handles elemental damage. A normal arrow might deal 1d8+1 damage of the piercing type, whereas a flaming one might deal 1d10+4 damage of the fire AND piercing types. Then, if your DR protects against one type, but not the other perhaps it is 1/2 as effective (rounded down).

RobbyPants

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Re: Damage Reduction and Armor
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2011, 09:38:07 AM »
That might speed things up a bit.  And I'm not saying your original idea is unworkable; it just depends on the group.  Different people have different tolerances for bookkeeping.  Some people love to do all that stuff.  I actually am somewhat on the high end of that spectrum.  Any time I'd try some houserules out like this, I'd always be the one tracking everything for all the players, or at least the one doing the math.

I suppose I shouldn't complain too much.  I've been mulling over rules that let you convert half the damage you take to nonlethal anyway, so that adds a division problem to every attack and an extra set of HP to track. ;)
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Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
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bkdubs123

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Re: Damage Reduction and Armor
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2011, 03:10:15 AM »
That might speed things up a bit.  And I'm not saying your original idea is unworkable; it just depends on the group.  Different people have different tolerances for bookkeeping.  Some people love to do all that stuff.  I actually am somewhat on the high end of that spectrum.  Any time I'd try some houserules out like this, I'd always be the one tracking everything for all the players, or at least the one doing the math.

Maybe I'm too close to this to see your point, but it feels like you're saying my idea is tedious simply because I've expanded Damage Reduction to apply to every kind of damage. The only additional bookkeeping is a one-time check mark that you put in a box corresponding to an element or type of damage. Am I insulated vs "xxxx" damage type or not? The rest is standard DR procedure, subtracting some damage from what you would ordinarily take. I guess I'm just not seeing why making some types of armor protect against different types of damage is so much more bookkeeping that it would ruin Damage Reduction for anyone.

I think tracking it could be very simple. On one side of your character sheet, probably near your hit point box, you have a placement for Damage Reduction. Next to the the words Damage Reduction is a small box for you to write out your amount of DR, say 5 or 12 or 50. Then past that there would be icons with small check boxes for each damage type. Check the ones your DR applies to. Your DR reduces damage from the checked types and doesn't reduce damage from the unchecked types.

Damage Resistance would of course have to be tracked separately, but then that's how 3.5 already does it. The only difference is that now it stacks with your DR. So monsters can still have Resist Cold, Electricity and Fire 30, but if they have any DR it might also apply to those resistances.

RobbyPants

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Re: Damage Reduction and Armor
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2011, 09:48:13 AM »
What I was getting at is that a particular type of armor is overcome by something like five different things.  Normally when I'm thinking of DR, I'm used to tracking one or two things, tops.  So, for my Dread Necromancer, I just make sure the attack is magic and bludgeoning.  It seems like it's a bit more involved to try to track five different things.

Now, I might be overreacting, too.  I'm sure once you get used to a particular suit of armor, it wouldn't be that hard to memorize those five types, and it would probably speed up with practice.  Perhaps even to the point that it's a complete non-issue.  It would be a pain when you upgrade to a new suit, but who knows?
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
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bkdubs123

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Re: Damage Reduction and Armor
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2011, 05:10:33 PM »
What I was getting at is that a particular type of armor is overcome by something like five different things.  Normally when I'm thinking of DR, I'm used to tracking one or two things, tops.  So, for my Dread Necromancer, I just make sure the attack is magic and bludgeoning.  It seems like it's a bit more involved to try to track five different things.

Now, I might be overreacting, too.  I'm sure once you get used to a particular suit of armor, it wouldn't be that hard to memorize those five types, and it would probably speed up with practice.  Perhaps even to the point that it's a complete non-issue.  It would be a pain when you upgrade to a new suit, but who knows?

Ah, yeah, but that's why I'd definitely include a special section for it on the character sheet like I was saying. I'll probably look into revising the special materials rules as they relate to Damage Reduction too, because I want DR to only care about actual damage types (which would be something like bludgeoning, piercing, slashing, cold, electricity, fire, acid, sonic, force, radiant, and shadow).
« Last Edit: February 06, 2011, 04:41:45 AM by bkdubs123 »