Author Topic: Not so sane DM allowing LA +8 buyoff. Need help with possible race choices.  (Read 15254 times)

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The_Mad_Linguist

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Alternatively, you could be a lesser d'hin'i were-murder of crows (tome of magic) (LA+3, 4RHD).

Nice racial SLAs, good stat mods, turn into a flock of crows (giving immunities), cool points, plus if you take divine minion I believe you'd retain the [swarm] subtype if you wildshaped from swarm of crows form, so you'd turn into an alligator made out of crows or something like that.
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DoNotFeedTheHipsters

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This is madness!

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WHAT ARE YOU A SWARM OF. ARE YOU A METALLIGATOR, OR JUST A SWARM OF CROWS SHAPED LIKE AN ALLIGATOR. THE WORLD WILL NEVER KNOW, NOR SHOULD IT.
So you end up stuck in an endless loop, unable to act, forever.

In retrospect, much like Keanu Reeves.

The_Mad_Linguist

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What the hell am I?  A bird?  A saxaphone?  A clam?
This doesn't make any sense!
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BrokeAndDrive

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Incarnate construct warforged for 10 free LA! He's not a sane DM so he should interpret it that way. :D

CTRL+F'ing through the five monster manuals for "level adjustment: +9" and "...+10" didn't find anything juicy (in fact, all I found were the hezrou and golden protector) so you're on your own.
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That was kind of the point. I was trying to be a Roy parody, but I guess it didn't come across overly well.

==

JaronK is of course most famous for his massive thought experiments into placing classes into tiers. While a kind of nifty idea, and a decent enough way to think about stuff, his particular tier assignments were basically insane. Apparently the criteria he used was to assign classes relative strength based on what bullshit he personally would let them get away with at 20th level.

So Factotums were rated very highly, because apparently he would let them use Rokugan-exclusive skills with Forgotten Realms-exclusive weapons from the back of MM2 templated warbeasts. But Rogues suck donkey dick, becuase he wouldn't let them use Use Magic Device to read scrolls of Planar Binding. It was a very surreal argument.
~

And to think the system was immortalized in OOTS. As a general rule, I try to avoid all tier discussion there because it's the De Facto system at BG, and I'm not going to change anyone's mind.

Besides, I think if most people are pressed, they will admit that it's just an estimate, anyway, and that results can vary from table to table.
~

My only real complaint with the tier system is that at one point I was tired (tiered?) of hearing about it.[/spoiler]

bearsarebrown

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plus if you take divine minion I believe you'd retain the [swarm] subtype if you wildshaped from swarm of crows form, so you'd turn into an alligator made out of crows or something like that.
Why's that?

The_Mad_Linguist

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Unless I've missed one of the erratas, I believe when you wildshape you retain your subtypes.
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Amechra

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Ask to play as a Spellweaver.

6 spells per round, and casting as a 12th level sorcerer is just plain shmexy.

1000 mile telepathy is also cool, especially with Mindsight.  :D

Sadly, it's a 10 HD creature. One can dream, can't they?

Alternatively, Nymphs are great, but +7 LA. You have 1 LA available for what, you ask?
You:
-Cast spells as a 7th level Druid
-Add Charisma to your Saves
-You can blind people by flashing them
-Natural +8 to Charisma, along with other nice stat boosts, such as a +6 to your Wisdom.

Play as a Druid. By the time you hit Wild Shaping, you'll be casting 6th level spells.

Other nice, freakin' awesome races:

Choker. You have +5 LA to mitigate the sucky mental stats, so that you can have, you know, an EXTRA STANDARD ACTION PER ROUND!

Or, if you want to play something more melee...

Evolved Spectre. Attack only with touch attacks, for a cool, cool 2 negative levels per touch. Save based of Charisma. Oh, and anyone killed by this rises in 1d4 rounds as your servant. This is how you play a undead warlord.

Doppleganger with 4 LA of other goodies can be really nice, as you can pretty much Alter Self whenever you want. Warshaper, anyone?

I support Unbodied, or...

I could go on ad nauseum.
[spoiler]Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".
[/spoiler]

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Littha

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-You can blind people using no action on your part
fixed

While not as funny it is more accurate and significantly more awesome.


Eviltedzies

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Re: Not so sane DM allowing LA +8 buyoff. Need help with possible race choices.
« Reply #49 on: February 01, 2011, 12:16:13 AM »
I love the idea of a Nymph actually. One of the other players is playing an Incubus. (Male Succubus for those who don't know.) DM just said he had the same stats as a Succubus but was just a male.

I wonder if he would let me play a male Nymph....... although judging by the flavor text no nymph are male. But I honestly think it'd be funny to be able to walk around and quite literally prove that "I'm to sexy for my shirt."  :lmao

So does a monsters (Insert casting class here) spells stack with class levels of (Insert same casting class here) for purposes of spells known/per day? And if so, does it qualify me for entry into dual casting PrC's? A Nymph Sorcerer/Arcane Heirophant would be quite smexy indeed.

Male Phantom Nymph anyone? If for some ungodly reason I can't diplomacy myself into a womans bath house I can just go incoporeal and make myself at home.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2011, 12:18:28 AM by Eviltedzies »
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Amechra

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Re: Not so sane DM allowing LA +8 buyoff. Need help with possible race choices.
« Reply #50 on: February 01, 2011, 01:25:12 AM »
Why, yes, yes they do.

Which reminds me; Sylphs cast like Sorcerers of their HD+4, correct?
[spoiler]Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".
[/spoiler]

My final project for my film independent study course. It could do with a watching and critiquing

Mushroom

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Re: Not so sane DM allowing LA +8 buyoff. Need help with possible race choices.
« Reply #51 on: February 01, 2011, 01:37:02 AM »
Play a Phaerimm(LEoF)! Sorc casting as your ecl? THANK YOU PLOX

DavidWL

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Re: Not so sane DM allowing LA +8 buyoff. Need help with possible race choices.
« Reply #52 on: February 01, 2011, 02:32:43 AM »
For immunities:
Keeper (4HD + 3LA).  Leaves 1 over

Template crazyness + Bang for the Buck:
Petal +2 LA
Half Celstial +2LA
Phrenic +2LA
Half Fey + 2 LA
+ Magic in the Blood
= mad attributes + a nice mix of abilities

A nice alternative (Also raw power): Taking advantage of LA - = HD:
Angel, Planetar (of mystra).  Start with 9HD at level 1.  You are a full Planetar at level 6
Also take initiate of mystra, Domains = Spell, Any other.  (At 6th level can cast miracle - there is your versatility!)
After that, go Dwoemerkeeper.

Best,
David
« Last Edit: February 01, 2011, 03:12:51 AM by DavidWL »
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Non-PC activities like out of combat healing should be left to wands and NPCs. It's not fun to play a walking wand of CLW. Likewise, being a combat wall is not a viable PC role. A Wall of Force could do that.

-Sort of, but you left out the important note that a Wall of Force does it better.

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Eviltedzies

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Re: Not so sane DM allowing LA +8 buyoff. Need help with possible race choices.
« Reply #53 on: February 01, 2011, 03:13:22 AM »
Yup, Slyph do indeed cast as a sorcerer of their HD+4.

I just noticed Movanic Deva's from the Fiend Folio. 6 HD outsiders with plenty of SLA at will. Looks juicy.
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Suzerain

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Re: Not so sane DM allowing LA +8 buyoff. Need help with possible race choices.
« Reply #54 on: February 01, 2011, 04:00:56 AM »
Arcanaloth (12HD/+7 LA).

Arcanaloth 12/Fiend of Possession 8/Anything

Since you said you keep the HD, this means you get skill points. And qualify for Fiend of Possession at the beginning of the game. And until you reach level 4 of FoP to possess one of your loyal minions, you can pass time being a 12th level sorcerer or, y'know, playing with  shapechange at will.



This is also possible, but not as good out of the box, imho:

Psionic Mindflayer (8HD/+7 LA)

Mindflayer 8/Illithid Savant 10/Anything

9th level telepath, 100ft telepathy, mind blast, stats. The kicker is Illithid Savant of course. At 3rd level, you could be grabbing a Factotum's capstone ability (or any other capstone ability, at that). Or you could grab a higher-level Illithid Savant and get a special quality off some creature.


edit: Also, for immunities, playing a swarm, as has been suggested, is a good idea. Undead-turned outsiders and humanoids too. Both is even better.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2011, 05:44:27 AM by Suzerain »

JohnnyMayHymn

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Re: Not so sane DM allowing LA +8 buyoff. Need help with possible race choices.
« Reply #55 on: February 01, 2011, 09:32:17 AM »
Ethereal Defiler (mm5) +4 LA, 22HD     
     specifically states that its 6d6 tainted energy ability stacks with eldritch blast if you take warlock levels, same with its DR 10/cold iron
     boosts to physical scores(+12 or higher) but -4 int
     you could really abuse some HD based abilities with this... TOB comes to mind, ... thrallherd

or slightly less cheesy,

(venerable loredrake) Forest Landwyrm (draconomicon)  +3 LA, 16HD     Large Dragon
     +13Str +11Wis +6Cha ----- this is BEFORE you make him venerable....
     60ft speed, 10ft burrow, 9 natural armor, 16BAB/+23 grapple.... room for more templates..

like idk...
  Dracolich and Divine Minion... lets roll with this cause i'm bored,
now you can wildshape as an 11th level druid, control undead(cl 15th), supernatural flying(maybe), a paralyzing gaze/touch etc....

now go sorcererX, druidX, arcane hierophant ... watch your DM  :twitch at your dragon wildshape (and other epic) feats

or if you're just after caster levels(I think this is the most broken route) here is a handy list...
[spoiler]http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5514.0[/spoiler]
     
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Lo77o

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Re: Not so sane DM allowing LA +8 buyoff. Need help with possible race choices.
« Reply #56 on: February 01, 2011, 10:26:25 AM »
Ghost does sound like fun but I would prefer something that I could actually socially interact as and not have a hoarde of clerics trying to turn my arse. XP

Take the human heritage feat(Races of Destiny).  Changes your type to Humanoid(human).

So people would be all "TURN UNDEAD" and you'll be like "I'm not undead, jerk", and they'll be all "lolsorry".

As an added bonus: you keep undead traits.

Add on ghostly grasp (LM), which lets you interact normally with the material world if you so choose.  Be a myssssssssssssssterious stranger wearing a heavy black cloak.

How do you mix an acquired template with a feat you have to take at level one, and then apply it as if you got the feat after the template?

You apply things in the order that are most beneficial for you. So when you have both the feat and the Template, you can basically choose your type.

I was under the impression that you apply changes in the order you acquire them, and if you happen to acquire two changes at the same time, you choose what comes first.

You choose your race before your feats, according to the PHBs directions. Yes, this makes no sense in this case (the same objection comes up with Dragonspawn Dragonwrought Kobolds, which is where I was first made aware of this).

Now hold a second there, this is all new to me, and i need to make sure im getting this right.

Your telling me i can start play with the Feat Human Heritage, then down the road become a ghost "not a race", and that would change my type to undead, and then i get to say... wait a sec, iv got this feat i took at level one, i think ill apply that after the ghost changes? If that is the case, iv been missing out on all kinds of template stacking.
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Mixster

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Re: Not so sane DM allowing LA +8 buyoff. Need help with possible race choices.
« Reply #57 on: February 01, 2011, 10:27:49 AM »
Ghost does sound like fun but I would prefer something that I could actually socially interact as and not have a hoarde of clerics trying to turn my arse. XP

Take the human heritage feat(Races of Destiny).  Changes your type to Humanoid(human).

So people would be all "TURN UNDEAD" and you'll be like "I'm not undead, jerk", and they'll be all "lolsorry".

As an added bonus: you keep undead traits.

Add on ghostly grasp (LM), which lets you interact normally with the material world if you so choose.  Be a myssssssssssssssterious stranger wearing a heavy black cloak.

How do you mix an acquired template with a feat you have to take at level one, and then apply it as if you got the feat after the template?

You apply things in the order that are most beneficial for you. So when you have both the feat and the Template, you can basically choose your type.

I was under the impression that you apply changes in the order you acquire them, and if you happen to acquire two changes at the same time, you choose what comes first.

You choose your race before your feats, according to the PHBs directions. Yes, this makes no sense in this case (the same objection comes up with Dragonspawn Dragonwrought Kobolds, which is where I was first made aware of this).

Now hold a second there, this is all new to me, and i need to make sure im getting this right.

Your telling me i can start play with the Feat Human Heritage, then down the road become a ghost "not a race", and that would change my type to undead, and then i get to say... wait a sec, iv got this feat i took at level one, i think ill apply that after the ghost changes? If that is the case, iv been missing out on all kinds of template stacking.

Yeah, but it is pretty TO.

You could possibly do the same with dragonwrought, then being a ghosts and then not being undead.
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Hitoshura

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Re: Not so sane DM allowing LA +8 buyoff. Need help with possible race choices.
« Reply #58 on: February 01, 2011, 01:59:34 PM »
See if you can become Vampire Lord, if so, SavageLibris Mortis Vampire Lord is awesome. About 50 in bonuses to attributes, immortality and huge awesomesauce [Telekinesis, Wild Shape as Druid 12th, Telephaty...], puts ghosts to shame, that's for sure.

Littha

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Re: Not so sane DM allowing LA +8 buyoff. Need help with possible race choices.
« Reply #59 on: February 01, 2011, 02:56:58 PM »
Half Celstial +2LA

Half Celestial is +4 unfortunately.