Author Topic: Mirrodin Besieged  (Read 11085 times)

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SorO_Lost

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Re: Mirrodin Besieged
« Reply #40 on: April 19, 2011, 05:10:01 PM »
No.  Just no.  Karn should not be printed as a Planeswalker.  No.  Don't give me crap about how all the Planeswalkers got weaker, he's still got nigh limitless mana to draw upon.

Plus that card is even more insane than Jace the Walletsculptor.  Didn't WotC swear off all "restart the game" mechanics?
Eh? Karn lost his planeswalker status healing the hole in Tolaria. Well, that is what everyone else is bitching about. He is so powerless he cannot be printed as a walker, blah blah blah. Underlaying fact everyone is ignoring: He was centuries in the past and on Domerria when he closed the portal and after he did so he walked to Mirrodon which being uncreated then meant he moved back to the present too. I really haven't read all of the thread they've got going on but it's clear everyone in it hasn't read a single book. Hell they think walker can still instantaneously walk and use that make claims that if Karn were a walker he could have escaped the Phyrexians that hold him in is lucidity.

A. The legacy merged with Karn. This isn't some stupid Voltron reference, they physically merged: there is no legacy.
B. Karn got hit by the same depower everyone else did.

Anyway. I've never heard of the no restart cards comment and there is only two printed (including karn) anyway. Jace is insane with his game ending nuke but there is a chance to recover from it if you don't have mill cards (remember Jace is used in everything right now but not everything is mill focused). Karn on the other hand does aim for f**k you. He can trigger on turn 3 of having him out with two random cards from an opponents hand, could be very useful if you use a play with hands open and get lucky. By turn 5 (when Jace normally triggers) he can wipe things and leave you with the best card from the last game and three random ones. More often that not, we're not talking about a kill your opponent in 3 turns or so or die warning from a Jace nuke, we're talking restarting the game with a HUGE advantage. Oh, and since Karn operates with more alliance tokens he is harder to kill using damage.
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

snakeman830

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Re: Mirrodin Besieged
« Reply #41 on: April 19, 2011, 08:03:02 PM »
Precisely: he was physically merged with the Legacy, including the Weatherlight.  You know, the airship whose powerstone contained an entire plane inside it so it would produce more or less infinite energy?  Yeah, he's still got that.  He lost Urza's spark (that was transeferred to him in Apocalypse) but the Weatherlight was almost a planeswalker itself in capabilities, just lacking the sentience to drive it. Karn has that sentience and all of the Legacy's capabilities.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2011, 08:05:19 PM by snakeman830 »
I am constantly amazed by how many DM's ban Tomb of Battle.  The book doesn't even exist!

Quotes:[spoiler]
By yes, she means no.
That explains so much about my life.
hiicantcomeupwithacharacterthatisntaghostwhyisthatamijustretardedorsomething
Why would you even do this? It hurts my eyes and looks like you ate your keyboard before suffering an attack of explosive diarrhea.
[/spoiler]

If using Genesis to hide your phylactry, set it at -300 degrees farenheit.  See how do-gooders fare with a liquid atmosphere.

Sinfire Titan

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Re: Mirrodin Besieged
« Reply #42 on: April 19, 2011, 09:01:32 PM »
Precisely: he was physically merged with the Legacy, including the Weatherlight.  You know, the airship whose powerstone contained an entire plane inside it so it would produce more or less infinite energy?  Yeah, he's still got that.  He lost Urza's spark (that was transeferred to him in Apocalypse) but the Weatherlight was almost a planeswalker itself in capabilities, just lacking the sentience to drive it. Karn has that sentience and all of the Legacy's capabilities.
Except the boys at MTGSalvation's Storyline forum have debunked the Legacy being an adequate substitute for a Planeswalker Spark. The Legacy itself is related to Karn the Released's abilities (Exiling things), but we've more or less confirmed that the Legacy is not the source of his spark.


This actually negated two of his possible ascension methods (the second being the Spark Transfer Device in the Mycosynth, which was destroyed when used). Currently, only three methods are left unaccounted for: Glacian's Spark, the Mirari, and Tezzeret's Clockworking abilities.


Glacian's Spark: Currently sealed inside the Might/Weakstones, it was never ignited when Glacian was alive. Because of it's location (sealed in a powerstone), the only problems with this theory are how it got ignited and why it didn't make Karn on par with Pre-Mending Walkers (as the spark wouldn't have been affected by the Mending). This is the most popular theory, and would take only a handwave from WotC to make it happen.

The Mirari: This thing is still capable of some very world-shaping powers, and it is possible that it could substitute for a spark if combined with the Legacy. The holes in this theory are simple, and almost immediately shoot it down: The Mirari was powered by Karn's Planeswalker abilities to begin with (while it was active on Dominaria, Karn was nearly powerless on Mirrodin). That's the major issue with the Mirari theory, and it isn't something WotC can retcon very easily because it would destabilize the OTG/OLS block storyline.

Tezzeret's Clockspinning: IMO, this is the most likely theory. It takes no more background, as it was "spelled out" during Test of Metal/Agents of Artifice. We know that this power is almost on-par with Pre-Mending Planeswalkers.


The holes in the third theory are very simple: It's freaking Shenron-level Wishing power, and an asspull bigger than Bleach.


[spoiler][/spoiler]

SorO_Lost

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Re: Mirrodin Besieged
« Reply #43 on: April 19, 2011, 10:33:53 PM »
Precisely: he was physically merged with the Legacy, including the Weatherlight.  You know, the airship whose powerstone contained an entire plane inside it so it would produce more or less infinite energy?  Yeah, he's still got that. 
While it's debatable who or what Karona spoke, the consideration to take into account that all information supplied by false-Tefei was correct. Whom is to really say false-Serra's information is a lie? Her information of course is she has her plane back and it was freed when the legacy was destroyed. No, he doesn't have that and even if he did so what? The legacy merged into him, there is no powerstone holding plane, Karn would have held it. And Karn was depowered via the mending.

And again, no notation he lost his spark. What is known is he did planes walk after closing the portal. WotC doesn't need any sort of asspull, just a book quote. If you feel you need an excuse consider how Bolas clearly display just how large the difference in power is between him and Teferi. Just because a noob lost his spark and two drained walkers died (Freyalise was at death's door anyway) doesn't just mean the same outcome must happen to someone as powerful as Karn. Jeska was able to use a neowalker as a condom and showed proof in terms of power it's possible to close multiple rifts using one spark (without expending it). Anyway, the next book will clear up things and maybe even reveal why Karn panicked so much.



Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

Sinfire Titan

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Re: Mirrodin Besieged
« Reply #44 on: April 20, 2011, 12:25:18 AM »
The spoiler has been leaked. Biggest leak since Guildpact.


Password (case sensitive): Magic


[spoiler][/spoiler]

SorO_Lost

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Re: Mirrodin Besieged
« Reply #45 on: April 20, 2011, 06:40:18 AM »
The spoiler has been leaked. Biggest leak since Guildpact.


Password (case sensitive): Magic
Awesome.

[spoiler]OMFG!
Phyrexian Obliterator = GOD.
BBBB: 5/5 + Trample + On Damaged; Source's controller sacrifices (damage) permanents.
None legendary. 5/5 on turn 4. Says f**k you if you block it.

FYI: Sword of War & Peace: deal (player's cards in hand count) damage and heal (cards in your hand count) life.

Super power highlight: Unwinding Clock; untap every artifact you control on each player's upkeep.

Recap. I want 4 Karns, 4 Phyrexian Obliterators, 4 Unwinding Clocks, 4 artifacts that tap to produce mana, something that I can feed mana into to proliferate, and the rest is stuff to prevent anyone else trying to use this combo (ie kill creature, destroy artifact, rape player).[/spoiler]
« Last Edit: April 20, 2011, 03:10:32 PM by SorO_Lost »
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

Agita

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Re: Mirrodin Besieged
« Reply #46 on: April 20, 2011, 09:43:39 AM »
I don't mind spoiler discussion per se, but would you guys mind putting explicit spoilers in, well, spoilers?
It's all about vision and making reality conform to your vision. By dropping a fucking house on it.

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SorO_Lost

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Re: Mirrodin Besieged
« Reply #47 on: April 20, 2011, 03:12:17 PM »
I don't mind spoiler discussion per se, but would you guys mind putting explicit spoilers in, well, spoilers?
May-be

I always wondered what those were for.
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

snakeman830

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Re: Mirrodin Besieged
« Reply #48 on: April 20, 2011, 06:26:29 PM »
Hey, the first specific Planeswalker hate card ever!
I am constantly amazed by how many DM's ban Tomb of Battle.  The book doesn't even exist!

Quotes:[spoiler]
By yes, she means no.
That explains so much about my life.
hiicantcomeupwithacharacterthatisntaghostwhyisthatamijustretardedorsomething
Why would you even do this? It hurts my eyes and looks like you ate your keyboard before suffering an attack of explosive diarrhea.
[/spoiler]

If using Genesis to hide your phylactry, set it at -300 degrees farenheit.  See how do-gooders fare with a liquid atmosphere.

SorO_Lost

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Re: Mirrodin Besieged
« Reply #49 on: April 26, 2011, 01:38:52 AM »
Official Spoiler is out now.
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

Sinfire Titan

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Re: Mirrodin Besieged
« Reply #50 on: April 26, 2011, 02:44:58 AM »
Official Spoiler is out now.

Looks like WotC isn't going to even try damage control beyond firing the guy responsible.


[spoiler][/spoiler]

Agita

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Re: Mirrodin Besieged
« Reply #51 on: April 26, 2011, 10:05:28 AM »
Official Spoiler is out now.

Looks like WotC isn't going to even try damage control beyond firing the guy responsible.
When the godbook is leaked, there's not really much left to control.
It's all about vision and making reality conform to your vision. By dropping a fucking house on it.

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Sinfire Titan

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Re: Mirrodin Besieged
« Reply #52 on: April 28, 2011, 10:17:35 PM »
Quest for Karn has been released, and we've finally got the explanation we've been waiting for.

[spoiler]Venser teleported his heart into Karn's replacing the Heartstone in the process.


This crosses several lines of MTG canon. The first and foremost being Yawgmoth's attempts to find the "planeswalking organ" of a planeswalker (prior to this, a Planeswalker's spark had been attached to that planeswalker's soul, preventing it from being extracted easily. As Memnarch can attest to).

The second being Karn's sentience. The Heartstone (and the Phyrexian Oil it contained) was what gave him both animation and sentience to begin with. Urza wasn't able to duplicate those, despite being an Old Walker.

This is just the tip of the iceberg, BTW.[/spoiler]


[spoiler][/spoiler]

snakeman830

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Re: Mirrodin Besieged
« Reply #53 on: April 28, 2011, 11:10:31 PM »
So Venser is dead?  A shame, I liked the first of the new planeswalkers.  His method of dealing with the Weaver King was most satisfying.
I am constantly amazed by how many DM's ban Tomb of Battle.  The book doesn't even exist!

Quotes:[spoiler]
By yes, she means no.
That explains so much about my life.
hiicantcomeupwithacharacterthatisntaghostwhyisthatamijustretardedorsomething
Why would you even do this? It hurts my eyes and looks like you ate your keyboard before suffering an attack of explosive diarrhea.
[/spoiler]

If using Genesis to hide your phylactry, set it at -300 degrees farenheit.  See how do-gooders fare with a liquid atmosphere.

SorO_Lost

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Re: Mirrodin Besieged
« Reply #54 on: April 29, 2011, 05:05:21 AM »
Quest for Karn has been released, and we've finally got the explanation we've been waiting for.

[spoiler]Venser teleported his heart into Karn's replacing the Heartstone in the process.


This crosses several lines of MTG canon. The first and foremost being Yawgmoth's attempts to find the "planeswalking organ" of a planeswalker (prior to this, a Planeswalker's spark had been attached to that planeswalker's soul, preventing it from being extracted easily. As Memnarch can attest to).

The second being Karn's sentience. The Heartstone (and the Phyrexian Oil it contained) was what gave him both animation and sentience to begin with. Urza wasn't able to duplicate those, despite being an Old Walker.

This is just the tip of the iceberg, BTW.[/spoiler]

They are butchering my MTG!

Also, word on leak: http://wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/news/042811a
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

SorO_Lost

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Re: Mirrodin Besieged
« Reply #55 on: September 15, 2011, 06:32:07 AM »
btw, ordered the book and read it (months ago, srsly forgot about this thread) and cried my self to sleep.

Two words: Fuck WotC.
Teeth of Akoum was a terrible book with it's shitty half-assed ending, I over looked it since the triple books to single book per block change was new and probably happened while this book was still being written. So what was a LotRs style walk to point B from A was supposed to be part of a trilogy and this was the lead in to things.

The Quest for Karn? omfg who do I stab the shit out of for this piece of crap? Same LotRs walk around, same ending style (guess what comes next? NOTHING! fuck wrapping this up, next block!) What, am I to excuse two failures in a row on the design team wanting to keep the 3rd set they play tested for months a secret? Hell no.

Congratulations WotC, I used to own 90% of your MtG novels, now I look forward to pirating your shit. Yes, it's that bad.
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

Sinfire Titan

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Re: Mirrodin Besieged
« Reply #56 on: September 15, 2011, 07:25:30 AM »
btw, ordered the book and read it (months ago, srsly forgot about this thread) and cried my self to sleep.

Two words: Fuck WotC.
Teeth of Akoum was a terrible book with it's shitty half-assed ending, I over looked it since the triple books to single book per block change was new and probably happened while this book was still being written. So what was a LotRs style walk to point B from A was supposed to be part of a trilogy and this was the lead in to things.

The Quest for Karn? omfg who do I stab the shit out of for this piece of crap? Same LotRs walk around, same ending style (guess what comes next? NOTHING! fuck wrapping this up, next block!) What, am I to excuse two failures in a row on the design team wanting to keep the 3rd set they play tested for months a secret? Hell no.

Congratulations WotC, I used to own 90% of your MtG novels, now I look forward to pirating your shit. Yes, it's that bad.

That would be Wintermute's doing. I've actually compared him to Kubo in terms of QUALITY! writing.


Test of Metal and the other Planeswalker novels are significantly better. ToA and QfK are utter shit.


[spoiler][/spoiler]

SorO_Lost

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Re: Mirrodin Besieged
« Reply #57 on: September 15, 2011, 08:51:58 AM »
Test of Metal and the other Planeswalker novels are significantly better. ToA and QfK are utter shit.
They are, I have the paperback version of all but Test of Metal (got the kindle version instead). ToM's cronomancy seems a little out of hand though. Like a step backward out of hand.

Guy 1: Hey let's nerf walkers because we want to make them as cards, we'll use the excuse that writing with god-modder as the main character is bad idea to cover up the successful Weatherlight stories, and pretty much everything after Apocalypse. I mean, the repercussions of god-modders affect thousands of nameless people we don't care to detail!
Guy 2: Ok! Now let me write about a guy who taps time powers to solve an unsolvable maze in mere seconds of real time then single handedly defeat dozens of alternate time versions of a necromancer and her super undead dragon corpse. I mean, it's not like hundreds of versions of the universe will never have an Innistrad block due to the necromancer being killed off right?

Still kinda nice to see a concept of time manipulation detailed enough you could believe in what would work or not, and it was handled well enough to be part of the plot but not the only reason the hero solves things (all the time) and really no glaring loose strings about it either (looking at you Harry Potter). Love the string rope analogy too.

No word on whom is writing the Innistrad novel yet correct?
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

Sinfire Titan

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Re: Mirrodin Besieged
« Reply #58 on: September 15, 2011, 05:30:31 PM »
No word on whom is writing the Innistrad novel yet correct?

None yet, but even if Wintermute writes it, it will be better than Twilight.


[spoiler][/spoiler]

SorO_Lost

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Re: Mirrodin Besieged
« Reply #59 on: September 16, 2011, 07:09:07 AM »
No word on whom is writing the Innistrad novel yet correct?

None yet, but even if Wintermute writes it, it will be better than Twilight.
Is that based off some complex opinion weighing character development, immersion and affects the reader in some way, handling resolutions of conflict etc. or simple math equation like parody of LotR > parody of emo vamps whom are a parody of horror vamps? Because neither one has something to submit in the first category...
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]