Author Topic: Help with a human Vop Saint Monk  (Read 5472 times)

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Esgath

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Help with a human Vop Saint Monk
« on: January 28, 2011, 01:37:09 PM »
Hi there, i am playing in a homebrewn setting and wanted to play a human Vop Saint Monk.
We are currently at Lvl 2 with 4 characters, including mine (The others are a human wizard/incantatrix [up to +15 spellcraft item allowed], a dwarfen waraxe TWF dwarf warblade/fighter, and a human rogue with some shadowstep thingy prc i think). We all have no serious experience in playing D&D (except my DM), as we had 2 campaigns going till lvl 8-9 then they were cut off due to RL issues.
LA Buyoff is currently not allowed, maybe i can convince my DM otherwise.
Also he denies me fast healing because he thinks that it is overpowered, maybe i get an ability where i can heal certain amounts of hp per day.

The DM allows material from the core books, the complete series, the spell compendium, BoeD, and stuff from faerûn, because thats the setting he is most familiar with.
Oh, and i can’t have shiba protector from OA, but i could take a feat at lvl 6 that would give me wis to hit and a feat at lvl 9 that would give me wis to dmg.

1.   Monk                    Sacred Vow, Vow of Poverty   Nymph’s Kiss
2.   Monk                                                             Intuitive Attack
3.   Monk                    Ability Focus (Stunning Fist)   Touch of Golden Ice
4.   Monk      
5.   Monk      
6.   Monk                    Pain Touch                           Nimbus of Light
7.   Monk      
8.   Monk                                                             Sanctify Natural Attack
9.   Monk                    Improved Natural Attack   
10.   Monk                                                           Sanctify Ki Strike
11.   Monk      
12.   Cleric                  Combat Casting                    Fist of Heavens
13.   Sacred Fist      
14.   Sacred Fist                                                   Holy Ki Strike
15.   Sacred Fist          Superior Unarmed Strike   
16.   Sacred Fist                                                   Open
17.   Sacred Fist      
18.   Sacred Fist          Open                                  Open
//  19.   Sacred Fist      
//  20.   Sacred Fist                                                   Open


Str:   10
Dex:   12
Con:   14
Int:    13
Wis:   15
Cha:   11

This is my current build, not sure about sacred fist but the guides told me i had to fly at higher levels :D
I want to have my character as the wise sage kind of type. Also i really like stunning fist, especially with the + 2 DC from Saint.
Help would be really appreciated especially for the higher levels, which feats/prc to take and maybe some arguments for and against LA buyoff/fast healing.

Thank you in advance for your help :)

« Last Edit: January 31, 2011, 10:26:24 AM by Esgath »

Gods_Trick

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Re: Help with a human Vop Saint Monk
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2011, 01:53:24 PM »

Okay, thank gods you've read the guide. Then you know that a monk will be, subpar in performance, right?

I get the feeling you're going to be more of a wandering sage that runs up and hits things rather than a caster BFC.

So first piece of advice, get DMM: Quicken or Persist for Divine Might and etc. I'll go look up the Saint and see what it provides to your defences.


JaronK

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Re: Help with a human Vop Saint Monk
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2011, 03:40:14 PM »
Needs more Cleric (and maybe Sacred Fist) and less Monk.  Like... by a lot. 

And Fast Healing is something your DM should allow.  It doesn't effect combats for the most part, just down time... and you want more action, right?  As a DM, it's a great thing for players to have.

JaronK

Rebel7284

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Re: Help with a human Vop Saint Monk
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2011, 03:45:38 PM »
Monk 1/Druid 19 is a reasonable VOP build.
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Esgath

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Re: Help with a human Vop Saint Monk
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2011, 03:58:41 PM »

So first piece of advice, get DMM: Quicken or Persist for Divine Might and etc. I'll go look up the Saint and see what it provides to your defences.


So i would then drop Superior Unarmed Attack and grab Quicken or Persist (Extend with Planning domain) and DMM of that with 18.
Also our Incantatrix also could persist divine might.

Needs more Cleric (and maybe Sacred Fist) and less Monk.  Like... by a lot. 


The problem with less monk would be, that i couldnt take Sanctify Ki Strike, Holy Ki Strike, and Fist of heavens, since they require Ki Strike (lawful).

Edit: I took Lvl 11 Monk due to Greater Flurry, would it be better to drop that for +1 caster level?
« Last Edit: January 28, 2011, 09:33:27 PM by Esgath »

Pimpforged

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Re: Help with a human Vop Saint Monk
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2011, 04:04:55 PM »
less Monk.  Like... by a lot.

This

I wouldn't go beyond 2 levels of monk Replace the others with more cleric or try to work in another Cleric Prc.

Monk/druid is also a good choice, I'd try to work in some Fist of the Forest as well if you go this route. Then you can wild shape, get your new form's NA, your Wis, your new form's Con to AC with a relatively small investment. :D
Also, good flavor synergy
« Last Edit: January 28, 2011, 05:36:38 PM by Pimpforged »

Pimpforged

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Re: Help with a human Vop Saint Monk
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2011, 04:09:44 PM »

So first piece of advice, get DMM: Quicken or Persist for Divine Might and etc. I'll go look up the Saint and see what it provides to your defences.


So i would then drop Superior Unarmed Attack and grab Quicken or Persist (Extend with Planning domain) and DMM of that with 18.

Needs more Cleric (and maybe Sacred Fist) and less Monk.  Like... by a lot. 


The problem with less Monk would be, that i couldnt take Sanctify Ki Strike, Holy Ki Strike, and Fist of heavens, since they require Ki Strike (lawful).

Edit: I took Lvl 11 Monk due to Greater Flurry, would it be better to drop that for +1 caster level?

Those feats + Greater Flurry < 9 levels of spellcasting

Trust Me. ;)
« Last Edit: January 28, 2011, 04:16:49 PM by Pimpforged »

Esgath

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Re: Help with a human Vop Saint Monk
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2011, 04:27:42 PM »
Haha, ok got you ^^

But i don't want to play a caster, i really only went there to get "Fly" and "Divine Might". Also what would i be doing with those empty feat slots?

TenaciousJ

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Re: Help with a human Vop Saint Monk
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2011, 04:35:23 PM »
Haha, ok got you ^^

But i don't want to play a caster, i really only went there to get "Fly" and "Divine Might". Also what would i be doing with those empty feat slots?

Being a cleric and going to sacred fist does't necessarily make you a "caster."  It makes you better at what you want to do (beating things with your fists) because you'll get access to buffs sooner and you'll get access to better buffs later on.  It's only as much caster or melee as you play it.  More cleric levels and earlier entry to sacred fist just gives you versatility.

Pimpforged

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Re: Help with a human Vop Saint Monk
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2011, 05:05:21 PM »
Haha, ok got you ^^

But i don't want to play a caster, i really only went there to get "Fly" and "Divine Might". Also what would i be doing with those empty feat slots?

Being a cleric and going to sacred fist does't necessarily make you a "caster."  It makes you better at what you want to do (beating things with your fists) because you'll get access to buffs sooner and you'll get access to better buffs later on.  It's only as much caster or melee as you play it.  More cleric levels and earlier entry to sacred fist just gives you versatility.

This

With the right build, you can easily turn a wizard into a melee monster that crushes all in his path. It's all about the way you play your character. With the DMM/Persist combo, you can buff yourself up to ridiculous heights then wade into melee and start smashing heads. Your other spells will just add versatility. Since you are getting fly I assume you have the travel domain which means with higher level spells you will get teleport/greater teleport (Travel is a fantastic domain by the way, one of my favorites). Also, if you get 9th lvl spells you get the all-powerful miracle which can replicate almost any spell in the game.

As to what feats you should take I dunno, there aren't very many good exalted feats maybe see if the DM will let you trade them in for regular feats? Maybe getting one regular feat every four lvls instead of one exalted feat every two?

ninjarabbit

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Re: Help with a human Vop Saint Monk
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2011, 12:31:28 AM »
If you're absolutely hell-bent on being a monk:

monk11/divinecrusader1/sacredfist9

You'll get better spellcasting progression but only in 1 domain.

Amechra

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Re: Help with a human Vop Saint Monk
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2011, 02:38:24 AM »
I remember seeing a fixed version of VoP somewhere...

Homebrew, but if youcan get it allowed...
[spoiler]Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

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Mixster

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Re: Help with a human Vop Saint Monk
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2011, 06:24:35 PM »
Saint isn't really worth it without fast healing and LA buy-off, but if you are helbent on it, consider something like this:

Saint Human.
Monk 3/Unarmed Swordsage 2/Ur-Priest 2/Sacred Fist 8/Whatever 3

You'd need to use an adaptation of Ur-Priest so he can be good, but apart from that nothing is wrong with such a build.

You could also do: Cleric 3/Monk 2/Sacred Fist 3/Prestige Paladin 1/Sacred Fist +7/Cleric PrCs 2

Gets you paladin spells, and only loses you 2 caster levels, which means without LA buy-off you still wont get 9th level spells.
Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

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X-Codes

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Re: Help with a human Vop Saint Monk
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2011, 08:10:02 PM »
Another vote for Monk 2/Cleric 6/Sacred Fist 10.  If your DM goes by text-trumps-tables then this is a 16th-level caster, if not then 14th.  This is an important distinction because at 15th level you get the spells Embrace the Dark Chaos and Shun the Dark Chaos which allow you to turn all of those useless Exalted feats into something workable, although you'll have to do a 180 on your Law/Chaos axis at some point between here and there.  Sure you'd be an Ex-Monk at that point, but there's worse things than being an Ex-Monk.

Esgath

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Re: Help with a human Vop Saint Monk
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2011, 09:58:29 PM »
Thank you guys for the advice and suggestions, i will look into these builds as fast as i can.

betrayor

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Re: Help with a human Vop Saint Monk
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2011, 10:02:08 PM »
Another vote for Monk 2/Cleric 6/Sacred Fist 10.  If your DM goes by text-trumps-tables then this is a 16th-level caster, if not then 14th.  This is an important distinction because at 15th level you get the spells Embrace the Dark Chaos and Shun the Dark Chaos which allow you to turn all of those useless Exalted feats into something workable, although you'll have to do a 180 on your Law/Chaos axis at some point between here and there.  Sure you'd be an Ex-Monk at that point, but there's worse things than being an Ex-Monk.
Wouldn't ordered chaos help him with that?

X-Codes

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Re: Help with a human Vop Saint Monk
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2011, 10:08:21 PM »
Another vote for Monk 2/Cleric 6/Sacred Fist 10.  If your DM goes by text-trumps-tables then this is a 16th-level caster, if not then 14th.  This is an important distinction because at 15th level you get the spells Embrace the Dark Chaos and Shun the Dark Chaos which allow you to turn all of those useless Exalted feats into something workable, although you'll have to do a 180 on your Law/Chaos axis at some point between here and there.  Sure you'd be an Ex-Monk at that point, but there's worse things than being an Ex-Monk.
Wouldn't ordered chaos help him with that?
No, it won't, because you've already taken a level of Cleric, anyway, and therefore can't advance more Monk.  The penalty for becoming a non-lawful monk is that you can't advance more Monk, you keep literally everything else.  As such, taking the Ordered Chaos feat would just be a waste of a feat.

Mixster

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Re: Help with a human Vop Saint Monk
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2011, 12:32:19 AM »
Another vote for Monk 2/Cleric 6/Sacred Fist 10.  If your DM goes by text-trumps-tables then this is a 16th-level caster, if not then 14th.  This is an important distinction because at 15th level you get the spells Embrace the Dark Chaos and Shun the Dark Chaos which allow you to turn all of those useless Exalted feats into something workable, although you'll have to do a 180 on your Law/Chaos axis at some point between here and there.  Sure you'd be an Ex-Monk at that point, but there's worse things than being an Ex-Monk.
Wouldn't ordered chaos help him with that?
No, it won't, because you've already taken a level of Cleric, anyway, and therefore can't advance more Monk.  The penalty for becoming a non-lawful monk is that you can't advance more Monk, you keep literally everything else.  As such, taking the Ordered Chaos feat would just be a waste of a feat.
But you'd retrain the feat anyway with Embrace/Shun combo, so it doesn't really matter.
Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

JaronK

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snakeman830

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Re: Help with a human Vop Saint Monk
« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2011, 09:34:33 PM »
He just has to remember to not throw away Touch of Golden Ice, Nymph's Kiss, and Intuitive Strike.  Those are actually pretty good feats.
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Esgath

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Re: Help with a human Vop Saint Monk
« Reply #19 on: February 03, 2011, 11:10:53 AM »
So, i looked into all those builds now and i think i will go now with Monk 2/Cleric 4/Sacred Fist 10/Contemplative 1/Cleric 1 or Cleric PrC 1

Cleric 3/Monk 2/Sacred Fist 3/Prestige Paladin 1/Sacred Fist +7/Cleric PrCs 2

Can't qualify for Sacred Fist that way, also normal Paladin is allowed, so Prestige Paladin is out and you can't take a break in Sacred Fist.

Another vote for Monk 2/Cleric 6/Sacred Fist 10.  If your DM goes by text-trumps-tables then this is a 16th-level caster, if not then 14th.  This is an important distinction because at 15th level you get the spells Embrace the Dark Chaos and Shun the Dark Chaos which allow you to turn all of those useless Exalted feats into something workable, although you'll have to do a 180 on your Law/Chaos axis at some point between here and there.  Sure you'd be an Ex-Monk at that point, but there's worse things than being an Ex-Monk.
Wouldn't ordered chaos help him with that?
No, it won't, because you've already taken a level of Cleric, anyway, and therefore can't advance more Monk.  The penalty for becoming a non-lawful monk is that you can't advance more Monk, you keep literally everything else.  As such, taking the Ordered Chaos feat would just be a waste of a feat.
But you'd retrain the feat anyway with Embrace/Shun combo, so it doesn't really matter.

Not sure if my DM allows Embrace/Shun combo, but it seems to me like the VoP would be really worthwhile that way.

Cleric Domains: Travel/Planning
Contemplative Domain will be Undeath for another Extra Turning.

Feats:

3: Combat Casting
6: Persist Spell
9: DMM: Persist Spell
12:
15:
18:

Which feats should I take? Extra Turning till the end, or also something else?