Author Topic: Thought experiment: No Core Magic  (Read 24383 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Rejakor

  • Donkey Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 610
    • Email
Re: Thought experiment: No Core Magic
« Reply #80 on: February 01, 2011, 10:16:28 PM »
Also, the HP isn't bloated and everything isn't boring.

Yeah, I said it.


Option 3 is the best one.

Option 2 is vaguely interesting.

The problem with option 1 is that most magic item spells do not have an invocation equivalent, at all, full stop.  There just aren't that many invocations and most of them aren't very much like spells at all except the ones that mimic a spell.  So you could still get that wondrous item that creates a Fog Cloud and all the ones based on Charm Person but not much else.

Rejakor

  • Donkey Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 610
    • Email
Re: Thought experiment: No Core Magic
« Reply #81 on: February 01, 2011, 10:21:29 PM »
Plus I don't think there's anything wrong with a warlock being able to build a Belt Of Strength that makes you stronger and not being able to waggle his hands and make you stronger.  There's all kinds of mythology and whatnot about magical items and it isn't some precondition that they were all made by people who could do the same thing by waving their magic wands whenever they felt like it.  Sure, usually something that made you strong was made by someone strong, like a giant, but doesn't change the fact that 'dark insane guy who makes magic stuff' is closer to myth/legend/story than 'wizard who knows the spell can make the stuff that does the spell'.  Plus the rules specifically state that warlocks don't need to know the spell to create the objects, so, specific > general and all that.  Even if the spell Cat's Grace never ever existed, that doesn't mean warlocks can't make Gloves of Dexterity.  Hell, even if they don't even know the spell /could/ exist, it doesn't matter.  They can still make the damn gloves cause the gloves don't cast spells, they give a constant enhancement bonus, and cause their class says they can make the gloves without even having to /worry/ about spells or whatever.

lans

  • King Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 886
    • Email
Re: Thought experiment: No Core Magic
« Reply #82 on: February 02, 2011, 03:58:05 PM »
The point of it was more to make it so that the party's equipment wasn't necessated by a warlock.

What if I let the warlock make the items that he wanted, baring things that replicated spells ie most wands, staffs, etc, and kept the 'transparency' for the other classes?
Skill prodigy from Kingdoms of Kalamar

Gods_Trick

  • King Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 787
Re: Thought experiment: No Core Magic
« Reply #83 on: February 02, 2011, 04:49:12 PM »

Lets get a player/GM consensus. So far I think its TML, Shadeseraph and me, anyone else?

As good as a game can be, if we're testing something out we ought to do it properly.

Rejakor

  • Donkey Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 610
    • Email
Re: Thought experiment: No Core Magic
« Reply #84 on: February 02, 2011, 05:11:28 PM »
I'll test it.

Equipment gets made by warlocks.  If you take that as a given in a setting, it's fine.  Magic items are rarer, and tend to be tainted, but it's still fine.

Hell you'd still have eldritch disciples churning out holy artifacts anyway.


awaken DM golem

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 3294
  • PAO'd my Avatar
Re: Thought experiment: No Core Magic
« Reply #85 on: February 02, 2011, 06:33:33 PM »
You could say, magic items that need core spells, can't be made ... except by massive intervention.

But even some core magic items don't need a specific spell, like Ioun Stones.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#iounStones

Level 12 check.
CL of 12 emulated or check.
Craft Wondrous needs a few blah blah.
You got the money right ?

What's weird is KnowX and Spell(psi-)craft checks still work.
Dice roll, and the King says: "That's not from around here!  Kill Them!!"

Shadeseraph

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 377
    • Email
Re: Thought experiment: No Core Magic
« Reply #86 on: February 02, 2011, 07:35:09 PM »

Lets get a player/GM consensus. So far I think its TML, Shadeseraph and me, anyone else?

As good as a game can be, if we're testing something out we ought to do it properly.
Littha wanted to play a shadow sentinel, some posts back in the thread.

Personally, thematically I like the idea of magic items as either artifacts of great power, remnants from another age; or as "tainted" items. The idea of them being created with the help of the knowledge of a demon would be pretty interesting.
[spoiler]
I hate mouth breathing fuckwits who go around spouting lies, even after being corrected on those lies, and that bait mods into helping to defend their wrongness and fail. I also hate the MBFs that don't understand the meaning of words, and that can't get a fucking clue.
Hey! I like spouting lies. It's very entertaining to observe how people on the internet are buffing their small egos by declaring victories over some stupid MBFs. :smirk
Also - I hate people who use too smart words that I don't understand. :mad

Hi Welcome

Go fuck yourself, because others won't do it for you.

Stop flirting you two.  :p
[/spoiler]

The_Mad_Linguist

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 8780
  • Simulated Thing
Re: Thought experiment: No Core Magic
« Reply #87 on: February 02, 2011, 09:41:10 PM »

Lets get a player/GM consensus. So far I think its TML, Shadeseraph and me, anyone else?

As good as a game can be, if we're testing something out we ought to do it properly.
]
Not entirely certain I'd be playing TBH - I've probably got enough on my plate game-wise.
Linguist, Mad, Unique, none of these things am I
My custom class: The Priest of the Unseen Host
Planetouched Handbook
Want to improve your character?  Then die.

Amechra

  • Man in Gorilla Suit
  • *****
  • Posts: 2328
  • Thread Necromancy a Specialty
Re: Thought experiment: No Core Magic
« Reply #88 on: February 02, 2011, 10:53:03 PM »
Don't forget me! I'm thinking 'lock for me, going into Iot7Vs.

(In other words, I think I'm playing.)
[spoiler]Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".
[/spoiler]

My final project for my film independent study course. It could do with a watching and critiquing

Gods_Trick

  • King Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 787
Re: Thought experiment: No Core Magic
« Reply #89 on: February 03, 2011, 04:54:18 AM »

So rearranging that, Amechra, Littha, Shadeseraph, and me, maybe TML. We were aiming for 5 to 6 yes Ians? Get another guy and we can stick a fork in it and call it done.

Who's interested?

lans

  • King Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 886
    • Email
Re: Thought experiment: No Core Magic
« Reply #90 on: February 03, 2011, 03:15:00 PM »
Sounds good at 5. 4th level, standard pt buy, 2 traits, 1 flaw sound good?
Skill prodigy from Kingdoms of Kalamar

Midnight_v

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2660
  • Dulce et decorum est pro alea mori.
Re: Thought experiment: No Core Magic
« Reply #91 on: February 03, 2011, 03:15:46 PM »
Shakem boys this contest is over.

Count me in.  ;)

Sounds like its right up my alley. Been lurking this thread for awhile now anyway.

Edit: Wow. How many classes does that actually leave? I never realized just how plentiful the vancian's were.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2011, 03:22:06 PM by Midnight_v »
\\\"Disentegrate.\\\" \\\"Gust of wind.\\\" \\\"Now Can we PLEASE resume saving the world?\\\"

lans

  • King Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 886
    • Email
Re: Thought experiment: No Core Magic
« Reply #92 on: February 03, 2011, 03:30:38 PM »
Tome of Magic&Battle classes
Warlock, Dragon Adept
Magic of Incarnum
Wildshape Ranger
Fighter, Rogue, Barbarian, various Paladin and Ranger spell-less variants.
Swashbuckler, Samurai, Ninja, Scout

Did I miss any?
Skill prodigy from Kingdoms of Kalamar

Midnight_v

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2660
  • Dulce et decorum est pro alea mori.
Re: Thought experiment: No Core Magic
« Reply #93 on: February 03, 2011, 04:07:18 PM »
Tome of Magic&Battle classes
Warlock, Dragon Adept
Magic of Incarnum
Wildshape Ranger
Fighter, Rogue, Barbarian, various Paladin and Ranger spell-less variants.
Swashbuckler, Samurai, Ninja, Scout

Did I miss any?

*scratches head* uhm... factotum maybe? I think thats it.
\\\"Disentegrate.\\\" \\\"Gust of wind.\\\" \\\"Now Can we PLEASE resume saving the world?\\\"

PlzBreakMyCampaign

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1373
  • Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental
Re: Thought experiment: No Core Magic
« Reply #94 on: February 03, 2011, 04:31:47 PM »
Tome of Magic&Battle classes
Warlock, Dragon Adept
Magic of Incarnum
Wildshape Ranger
Fighter, Rogue, Barbarian, various Paladin and Ranger spell-less variants.
Swashbuckler, Samurai, Ninja, Scout

Did I miss any?

*scratches head* uhm... factotum maybe? I think thats it.
enough PrCs to shake a stick at. We pbp'ing or ventrilo+virtual tabletop?
[Spoiler]
Quote
An interesting read, nice to see a civil discussion
The point of Spell Resistance is to make it harder to get buffed.
And healed. Don't forget that.
Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.
[/Spoiler]

Old Geezer's Law of Hobby Taste: The more objectively inconsequential a hobby is, the more disagreements within the community will be expressed in outrageously insulting, overblown, and ludicrously emotionally laden terms.

More Funny than Humble[Spoiler]
Quote from: PlzBreakMyCampaign
Your a shifter... you have all you ever need.
It blows MoMF out of the water

But if your greedy for more [Wish] for something that only effects you, like another class level or two that doesn't count against your ECL.
Quote from: hungryhungryhippo987
Yes, I'm the 3.0 "Masters of the Wild" shifter, the awesome kind. My favorite form to take is Force Dragon. Yes, I am immortal ... My character is hands down the coolest guy in the campaign and there is nothing I could possibly want.
PBMC gets a cookie for DotA r

Benly

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 436
    • Email
Re: Thought experiment: No Core Magic
« Reply #95 on: February 03, 2011, 04:35:41 PM »
Tome of Magic&Battle classes
Warlock, Dragon Adept
Magic of Incarnum
Wildshape Ranger
Fighter, Rogue, Barbarian, various Paladin and Ranger spell-less variants.
Swashbuckler, Samurai, Ninja, Scout

Did I miss any?

Dragon Shaman and Marshal, not that I'd expect to see a whole lot of either.

Gods_Trick

  • King Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 787
Re: Thought experiment: No Core Magic
« Reply #96 on: February 03, 2011, 04:57:50 PM »
Tome of Magic&Battle classes
Warlock, Dragon Adept
Magic of Incarnum
Wildshape Ranger
Fighter, Rogue, Barbarian, various Paladin and Ranger spell-less variants.
Swashbuckler, Samurai, Ninja, Scout

Did I miss any?

Dragon Shaman and Marshal, not that I'd expect to see a whole lot of either.

Without cheap access to items, the shamans healing aura could actually come in handy.

lans

  • King Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 886
    • Email
Re: Thought experiment: No Core Magic
« Reply #97 on: February 03, 2011, 05:01:25 PM »
Tome of Magic&Battle classes
Warlock, Dragon Adept
Magic of Incarnum
Wildshape Ranger
Fighter, Rogue, Barbarian, various Paladin and Ranger spell-less variants.
Swashbuckler, Samurai, Ninja, Scout

Did I miss any?

*scratches head* uhm... factotum maybe? I think thats it.
I don't think I was going to allow the Factotum, though I could allow it sans the spell ability of it.

. We pbp'ing or ventrilo+virtual tabletop?
I'll make a PBP thread when I get a chance.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2011, 05:04:28 PM by lans »
Skill prodigy from Kingdoms of Kalamar

lans

  • King Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 886
    • Email
Re: Thought experiment: No Core Magic
« Reply #98 on: February 03, 2011, 05:09:59 PM »
Is anybody banned from GitP?
Skill prodigy from Kingdoms of Kalamar

Shadeseraph

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 377
    • Email
Re: Thought experiment: No Core Magic
« Reply #99 on: February 03, 2011, 05:21:51 PM »
Is anybody banned from GitP?

I don't have an account. I can create one easily enough, though.
You missed knight, too, BTW. And monk. Poor, poor monk.
At the moment, I think the chars are:

Gods_Trick: Truenamer
Midnight_v: ??
Littha: ?? / Future Shadow Sentinel
Amechra: Warlock / future Io7V
The_Mad_Linguist(?): ??
Me: Crusader/Binder or Incarnate/DFA

EDIT: Expected final level? Most PbPs I've played usually don't go further than the initial level, but for this kind of game I'd think that staying at level 4 is kind of moot. That said, for a first try, levels 1-10 should be reasonably safe even with the lack of magic items, given enough optimization, so staying around level 4 has some things in its favor.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2011, 05:37:33 PM by Shadeseraph »
[spoiler]
I hate mouth breathing fuckwits who go around spouting lies, even after being corrected on those lies, and that bait mods into helping to defend their wrongness and fail. I also hate the MBFs that don't understand the meaning of words, and that can't get a fucking clue.
Hey! I like spouting lies. It's very entertaining to observe how people on the internet are buffing their small egos by declaring victories over some stupid MBFs. :smirk
Also - I hate people who use too smart words that I don't understand. :mad

Hi Welcome

Go fuck yourself, because others won't do it for you.

Stop flirting you two.  :p
[/spoiler]