Nytemare's PHB Rewrites: Epic Spellcasting

[Nytemare3701]

I know Epic spellcasting isn't technically a PHB thing, but It needs to be in the core rules to work cohesively with the rest of the game. The current epic rules are shit, so I propose this: Epic spellcasting does one thing for you: It completely obliterates action economy.

Inspiration: Exalted.
Anyone who has ever played Exalted knows that it's pretty much like playing Epic from level 1. The Charm system works surprisingly well, but the rest of the game is badly tuned, just like every storyteller system game.

Epic Spellcasting

Spell slots: Epic spell slots follow the same progression as normal spell slots, but new spells aren't learned. The new slots are used for metamagic feats, as well as the new Chaincasting feat.

Chaincast [Metamagic, Epic]
Your mastery of spellcasting is so great that you may cast a great number of spells in a short amount of time.
Prerequisites: Level 21, Spellcraft 24 Ranks
Benefits: You may cast as many spells as you wish in one turn by adding the total level of the spells together and adding 2. That is the spell slot that is used.
Note: 0 Level spells are treated as 1/2 a level.
Example: Magic Missile + Fireball = 6th level slot

[BrokeAndDrive]

...but the rest of the game is badly tuned, just like every storyteller system game.

Oh you heathen D&D'er! By caring about the numbers more than about REAL roleplaying you're not Doing It Right! You're SUPPOSED to angst and wail against the world, and not give a shit that a 1st-lvl mage spell can easily deal 30-50 bashing damage when most humans can never take more than 10-20 of such, and vampires and werewolves maybe 20-30, even at the highest levels. Stop being such a poindexter leftbrain and be one of the COOL ARTISTS THAT IS WOD'S DEMOGRAPHIC!!

   

Psst, anyone who can't tell this is obvious sarcasm needs to develop some reading comprehension skills. I recommend starting with Dr. Seuss books.

[veekie]

Combat spells aren't developed, You make the check when you want to cast the spell, and if you are a prepared caster, you prepare your chains at the beginning of the day, but make the check when you cast.

Recipe for disaster on the playability end, unless you're willing to take a 10 minute timeout to work out what spells are coming into play. At least, without some limitation on the seeds and factors a given caster knows and can bring to bear.

Honestly, unless you're changing the whole spell system to 'build your own spell'(so seeds scale from 1st level up), guidelines for designing spell levels above 9 and a systematic means for gaining slots above 9 might be better.

[oslecamo]

My question is, do we really need epic spells at all?

0-9th level spells are already damn powerfull, if not outright broken.

That may actually be a good idea. Pick the broken spells (shapechange, gate, PaO). Make them epic-only. Then nerf them a little just to be safe (gate only gets monsters up to your HD for example).

Also simply geting higher-level slots allows you to make "epic" spells by stacking multiple metamagics in the normal ones.

Otherwise you have to rewrite the whole seed system, wich would be a major headache.

[Nytemare3701]

My question is, do we really need epic spells at all?

0-9th level spells are already damn powerfull, if not outright broken.

Also simply geting higher-level slots allows you to make "epic" spells by stacking multiple metamagics in the normal ones.

I agree.Completely overhauled to reflect that.

[RobbyPants]

Prerequisites: Level 20, Spellcraft 24 Ranks

Two things:

1) The prereqs aren't the same (but they don't necessarily have to be).  You get 24 ranks at 21st level.

2) You can simply use ranks rather than level, since they're tied directly to level anyway.

[Nytemare3701]

Prerequisites: Level 20, Spellcraft 24 Ranks

Two things:

1) The prereqs aren't the same (but they don't necessarily have to be).  You get 24 ranks at 21st level.

2) You can simply use ranks rather than level, since they're tied directly to level anyway.

1) Fix'd.

2) Redundancy, in case of kobolds.

[Garryl]

Chaincast [Metamagic]
Your mastery of spellcasting is so great that you may cast a great number of spells in a short amount of time.
Prerequisites: Level 20, Spellcraft 23 Ranks
Benefits: You may cast as many spells as you wish in one turn by adding the total level of the spells together and adding 2. That is the spell slot that is used.
Example: Magic Missile + Fireball = 6th level slot

Use the standard method of treating level 0 spells as 1/2. Otherwise you get Acid Splash + Acid Splash + Acid Splash + Acid Splash + Acid Splash + ... + Acid Splash for arbitrarily large-d3 in a 2nd level slot.

Btw, you should make it require level 21 and Spellcraft 24 ranks, otherwise Wizards (and anyone who wants to get Skill Focus (diplomacy) and burn a level of Marshal, and anything else that gives you a bonus feat at 20th) can pick it up pre-epic. Also give it the [Epic] tag, too, which prevents anyone pre-21st other than old dragons/DWKs from taking it anyways.

[Nytemare3701]

Chaincast [Metamagic]
Your mastery of spellcasting is so great that you may cast a great number of spells in a short amount of time.
Prerequisites: Level 20, Spellcraft 23 Ranks
Benefits: You may cast as many spells as you wish in one turn by adding the total level of the spells together and adding 2. That is the spell slot that is used.
Example: Magic Missile + Fireball = 6th level slot

Use the standard method of treating level 0 spells as 1/2. Otherwise you get Acid Splash + Acid Splash + Acid Splash + Acid Splash + Acid Splash + ... + Acid Splash for arbitrarily large-d3 in a 2nd level slot.

Btw, you should make it require level 21 and Spellcraft 24 ranks, otherwise Wizards (and anyone who wants to get Skill Focus (diplomacy) and burn a level of Marshal, and anything else that gives you a bonus feat at 20th) can pick it up pre-epic. Also give it the [Epic] tag, too, which prevents anyone pre-21st other than old dragons/DWKs from taking it anyways.

Thanks, I overlooked that.

[RobbyPants]

Good point about kobolds.  I don't own/use any of the Dragon books, so I forget to check for that type of stuff in other's homebrew.