Author Topic: What are your guidelines for if something should be allowed?  (Read 4941 times)

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weenog

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Re: What are your guidelines for if something should be allowed?
« Reply #20 on: January 18, 2011, 05:52:35 PM »
Sure, if their notes are sufficiently well-organized and concise that they can answer reasonably quickly without losing accuracy.  If reviewing their notes becomes the chaotic and time-consuming affair that reviewing a pile of splats is, the answer is still no.
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wotmaniac

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Re: What are your guidelines for if something should be allowed?
« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2011, 07:04:22 PM »
first and foremost, every player at my table much read and concur with Caelic's 10 Commandments of Practical Optimization.

It's kinda hard for me to actually quantify what I do and don't allow -- it's more of an instinctual thing on a case-by-case basis.  The problem is that "no single rain drop is responsible for the flood".
I used to try to impose all kinds of artificial constraints and limits ... until I figured out that it's just a band-aid. 
Since I'm fairly selective about who I let sit at my table, I usually don't have to worry about players trying to break the game -- they're pretty good at self-regulating. 

some basic guide-lines I use:
- (like most people) no infinity/NI loops, or anything that lets you just arbitrarily do whatever the hell you want to do.
- if there is ambiguity in the rule, use the most straight-forward and/or conservative interpretation
- no multi-stacking.  I don't care that you have 5 different and distinct abilities (all from different classes) that says you can add stat "x" to mechanic "y" -- they over-lap, not stack (except for the few cases where stacking is explicitly mentioned)
- CONTEXT MATTERS!!!  it's what defines a thing.  it also goes a long way in determining the intent of a thing.
- like unto the previous: if you decide to call an effret ... I don't care if your diplomacy skill is over 9000 - or even if you've managed to completely dominate him (such as dominate monster, or even necrotic tumor) - he's still gonna fuck you with that wish.
- speaking of skills: you can't perform epic uses of a skill unless you have at least 24 ranks in that skill.  fuck skills.
- I'm still working on a way to streamline stackable bonuses ... somewhere between the umpteen existing bonus types and crippling the whole system down to like 3. (if there's already a thread/resource for this, please link it.  if not, I may start my own)
- if it completely invalidates another PC, it's getting nerfed (given, of course, that the invalidated PC's player is competently playing/building/equiping the character and can't be adequately/reasonably compensated by a mild-to-moderate easter egg)
- if you can't be bothered with knowing what your character does, then you can't play it.  I can be patient with a bit of a learning curve; but if you're not even trying, then you're assed-out.
- like unto the previous -- save the page-flipping for out-of-game.  for the most part, all you should need during the game is your character sheet:
  -- if you can't fit it on a 4-page character sheet (not counting spell lists), then you probably have too much stuff going on
  -- if you can't remember the particulars of a specific ability (feat, class ability, etc.), then you need to have some (at least) basic notes
  -- your spellbook (or spells-known list) better be maintained, and have the basic stats included
  -- if the MM is a regular part of your character (e.g., wild shape, summoning, etc.), then you need a quick-reference guide of some kind (index cards, "creature sheet", etc.)
  -- if the books are more efficient than your notes, it's time to develop a better note-keeping system
  -- etc., etc. -- you get the idea


that's all I can think of for now.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2011, 07:06:08 PM by wotmaniac »

[spoiler]
If you stop ignoring 289 pages telling what the intent is to stretch "more power" in your own god complexion of your interpretation trumps all to cover ability adjustments from aging then I will ignore a quarter page of rules that exist within a sidebar.
I think in this case the grammar is less important than whether the Str and Dex bonus provided to your created undead scales.

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Ikeren

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Re: What are your guidelines for if something should be allowed?
« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2011, 08:29:41 PM »
Yeah, pretty much let everything short of Theoretical optimization: Infinite or Night infinite, getting more than 3 or 4 sets of action in a single round (aside from Timestop which has in built limitations). The rest I just try to deal with.

DMM Persist Clerics, in particular, I love to play as a player, and as a DM, I love to have. One of the challenges of a wizard or cleric is you don't know what spell they're pulling out for your encounter. DMM Persist cleric? You know precisely what spells they're pulling out. 5th level cleric persists lesser vigor, ice axe (2d12+2 ice damage as a touch attack) and Balor Nimbus (6d6 fire/round)...gets hit by a scrying or clairvoyence and bam, really? The enemy was smart enough to cast an energy resistence spell or two on the person that goes up against the cleric? Damn, pity that enemy wizards also have intelligence scores.

And an Incantatrix wizard? Sure, they're great; twinned repeating heightened save or dies, but at the end, they're still using Save or dies (and if they're particularly prone to not remember to mix and constantly use say, finger of death, and forget to block scrying, people start coming out with deathward. Hell, past level 10, everyone has deathward. Because if they don't, they'd be DEAD already.) Or maybe they're going the twinned/repeated/maximized/quickened/admixtured/searing scorching ray route; in which case, waves of pathetic creatures to waste spells, then a BBEG.

As a DM, I think It's my job to make the encounters precisely the right degree between challenging and stupid, and from there, let the players do as they please.

Littha

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Re: What are your guidelines for if something should be allowed?
« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2011, 08:33:19 PM »
Or maybe they're going the twinned/repeated/maximized/quickened/admixtured/searing scorching ray route; in which case, waves of pathetic creatures to waste spells, then a BBEG.

Problem with this is after a while people start throwing twinned/repeated/maximized/quickened/admixtured/searing fireballs...

raith0

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Re: What are your guidelines for if something should be allowed?
« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2011, 09:55:28 PM »
I tend to use a lose gentlmans agreement that states if you abuse something then i can to and i have better resources and sometimes abilities than the PC/people behind the PCs. 

i dont mind a little bit of things like CL stacking but know enough to not be obnoxious with it. 

lately its been ruff for me since i am teaching 2 new people to play and they are still learning what is a good character and what isnt.  they listen but dont always know why i am right and one thinks he can prove me wrong on some of the bad classes because they have cool names.


Pimpforged

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Re: What are your guidelines for if something should be allowed?
« Reply #25 on: January 19, 2011, 06:26:18 PM »
I generally don't ban things outright, I get the players to talk about the power level of the game beforehand.

If they want to play a bunch of optimized Ridiculously powerful characters, I let them, and if they want to play a weaker party with a bunch of fluff abilities they take because they look badass but don't really do much thats fine with me.

All I ask is that the party is (relatively) balanced within itself. As the DM, you can always scale encounters appropriately as long as you don't have the Uber-Powerful GOD wizard and the fighter with the alertness feat in the same party.

raith0

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Re: What are your guidelines for if something should be allowed?
« Reply #26 on: January 19, 2011, 07:33:34 PM »
All I ask is that the party is (relatively) balanced within itself. As the DM, you can always scale encounters appropriately as long as you don't have the Uber-Powerful GOD wizard and the fighter with the alertness feat in the same party.

Hey every Wizard i ever playe had the alertness feat it cant be that bad... ;)

Littha

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Re: What are your guidelines for if something should be allowed?
« Reply #27 on: January 19, 2011, 07:36:18 PM »
All I ask is that the party is (relatively) balanced within itself. As the DM, you can always scale encounters appropriately as long as you don't have the Uber-Powerful GOD wizard and the fighter with the alertness feat in the same party.

Hey every Wizard i ever playe had the alertness feat it cant be that bad... ;)

Most of mine didn't, my DM had a fetish for shooting familiars.

JaronK

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Re: What are your guidelines for if something should be allowed?
« Reply #28 on: January 19, 2011, 08:21:53 PM »
It really depends on the story I want to run with.  I generally just get players to do T3-4 classes, avoid anything that would let them throw the campaign completely off the rails, and go from there.

JaronK

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Re: What are your guidelines for if something should be allowed?
« Reply #29 on: January 20, 2011, 12:15:26 PM »
All I ask is that the party is (relatively) balanced within itself. As the DM, you can always scale encounters appropriately as long as you don't have the Uber-Powerful GOD wizard and the fighter with the alertness feat in the same party.

Hey every Wizard i ever playe had the alertness feat it cant be that bad... ;)

Mine very very rarely do because I'm always afraid my familiar is gonna die.
I either trade it in for ACF or just don't summon one.


twoswords

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Re: What are your guidelines for if something should be allowed?
« Reply #30 on: January 20, 2011, 11:36:31 PM »
I feel that the players can do whatever they feel like, but they should also know that if they start to delve into Pun-Pun realms, the opponents will also get a lot tougher and their battle tactics more innovative.