Impregnable Armor

[Maat_Mons]

You can shout Save-Or-Die all you want, there's immunities to that sort of stuff - ergo, Soulfire to take care of your Slaying Finger of Imploding.

Soulfire doesn't protect against implosion, imprisonment, or weird, for example.  If your character is really so tough, imagine if he failed a save against dominate person or any of the higher level versions.  Suddenly, he's attacking the party at the enemy's command.  

If you want people to stop pointing out the weaknesses, you should address them, or at least acknowledge them and ask how they might be addressed.  

A third eye conceal (Magic Item Compendium 141) gives you continuous mind blank for 120,000 gp.  A ring of freedom of movement (Dungeon Master's Guide 232) gives you continuous freedom of movement for 40,000 gp.  A cowl of warding (Magic of Faerun 156) gives you both for 200,800 gp.  

A gemstone of heavy fortification (Draconomicon 83) makes you immune to critical hits (and thus death by massive damage and sneak attacks) for 35,000 gp and doesn't take up a body slot.  A wakeful mind graft (Faiths of Eberron 158) makes you immune to stunning and sleep effect for 14,000 gp and doesn't take up a body slot.  A heart of steel graft (Faiths of Eberron 157) makes you immune to disease, paralysis, and poison for 9,000 gp and doesn't take up a body slot.  

A Hathran mask of true seeing (Unapproachable East 57) gives you continuous true seeing for 75,000 gp.  

Did you just ask us not to talk about what we think is wrong with the build then immediately ask us to talk about what we think is wrong with the build?  

I don't think there's a good way to get SR.  Everything I know of costs too much and gives too little.  However, see the items above for items that will render certain spells useless on you.  Also, you should look into boosting your saves.  

Grease

On that note, what's the best item that grants flight?  

If SR's such a casterkiller why is nobody giving me a laundry-list of possibilities?

Actually, the common opinion around here is that SR is easy to overcome.  There's assay spell resistance (Spell Compendium 17) for +10, true casting (Complete Mage 121) for +10, and spell vulnerability (Spell Compendium 17) for +15.  There are also plenty of caster level boosting items.  If the caster really wants to invest, he can take arcane mastery (Complete Arcane 73) to take 10 on the roll (even in combat, see the errata).  

[snakeman830]

But...by that logic the entire dwarf race can be stopped with Grease and should thus not be used. You're not factoring in the all-encompassing picture. There's a reliable base point in my dwarf, and that 'terrible' reflex save is 6 base, 5 resistance, and at least 3 dexterity from the Belt of Magnificence (needed just for strength and constitution but here's a little side boost). 14 for a bad save I can live with. As far as dragons go, yes they have a breath weapon, hence the resistances on the armor.

No.  Most Dwarves, while slow, aren't intentionally cutting down their speed for better combat abilities and survivability.  Yes, I'm aware that you don't have to use the Defensive Stance, but even so, mobility is not something that you have.  Most classes like mobility, especially any spellcasters.  Even a Dwaven Paladin can get around pretty well due to the mount.  This build, however, cannot.  You're not building a tank.  You're building a small wall.  Even with actual tanks (M-1 Abrams, Panzers, etc.), mobility has always been a high priority.  In an RPG, it still is: you have to get you your foes before they threaten your teammates.

I reccommend looking at Wings of Flying in the DMG.  These give you a Fly speed of 60ft (three times your normal movement!) at Good Manuverability (so you can hover).

And there's STILL no help with getting other stuff like SR, more DR, etc. Dang this is one-track-minded. Anyone? If SR's such a casterkiller why is nobody giving me a laundry-list of possibilities? I'm not a caster myself but c'mon, there's gotta be something magic on a mask or shoe to help me.

Because SR isn't a caster-killer.  Usually it ends up killing you because you can't easily recieve emergency healing and buffs.  Most of the best offensive spells don't allow for SR (and they aren't considered good because of that, but for other reasons, typically because they shut down multiple foes with one spell).  Of those buffs that aren't Personal, most allow SR.  See why Spell Resistance isn't a good idea?

As for getting more DR, you've basically got all you can.

EDIT: Mantle of Spell Resistance is much more expensive compared to the 19 SR enchant but gives only 21?? Man, that's...kinda embarrassing. It seems good for lower levels but OUCH on the long-term.

Yeah, buying SR is just a kick in the groin.  By the time you can afford it, it doesn't offer any protection.

[Rebel7284]

Running is a full round action.  If you are running, you are not attacking.  If you are not attacking, you are not a threat. 

Also, are you trying to count your armor as both medium and heavy for different purposes? 

[Amadi]

Well, let's face it, ToB is not a very accurate description of any martial arts. Any.

What weapon was the weapon of choice for duels, given you didn't know your opponents weapons/armour beforehand? No, it wasn't a greatsword. No one used greatswords, unless they were mounted and charging against multiple opponents, or if their task at war was to cut down enemy spears with them. Greatswords suck. It was a quarterstaff. That's right, if you met a D&D-esque party in a world that was even somewhat realistic when it came to combat, the guy with the quarterstaff wouldn't be the mage. It would be the fighter. Or the rogue. And those quarterstaffs werent the pansy versions you see in movies, either. They were as tall as you with your hand stretched upwards with the fist open, and as thick as your wrist.

Because I know you want to ask it, go ahead. "What about dualwielding?" FUCK NO. No one in their right of mind would dualwield. First of all, if you were in an actual war and walked close enough to use both your weapons offensively, you were fucked. Infact, since you didn't have shield or enough reach to fight from behind your allies shields, you were pretty much fucked to begin with, so it sucks to be you. Then some smart-ass walked up to you clad in platemail, and let you hit him for 8 minutes straight before you passed out from exhaustion, and your two daggers didn't do a fucking thing. That's how bad they are. Also, you have a slight disadvantage, you know, because everyone's weapon is longer than yours. You take a step closer, I hit you in the head with my quarterstaff, because I use real weapons. Don't even get me started if you happen to fight some ferocious animal like a boar, because then you're super-fucked. You can probably stick your dagger into its' eye and it will kill you before it dies anyway. I mean, sure, in some situations you can keep a weapon in your off-hand. I mean, it kind of works as a shield, only it doesn't help against ranged attacks but you might disarm someone with it if they fail, but that's about it.

And you know the knights, the guys with a longsword and plate. Here you are, knighting your way when another knight comes to knight you. So you two knights just stand there and decide to duel, because that's what knights do. Duel. So you both draw your longswords and you expect an epic battle where you exchange blows, dodge and parry. Fuck that, he's going to grab your weapon with his iron gloves and grapple you, then grab his dagger and stick it through some hole in your armour. That's because he was smart enough to have a dagger, unlike you, who thought that you'd get to hit with your longsword. Well, yeah, you probably got to swing it once. And that's like the only use for the dagger, too. Apart from sticking it in someone's back when they sleep, or skinning an animal. Or I don't know, cutting bread.

What about armour, then? Everyone wears it. Everyone. If you're running around without armour, you have no life. Literally. Because you're dead. Because I just killed you. WITH MY ARMOUR. IT'S THAT AWESOME. No really, I just punch you in the face with my iron fist and you die, because you don't have a helmet. Sucks to be you. I think that longsword is a useful weapon against you, which sucks even more. Like, you know, getting killed by a longsword, a weapon designed to be handy at killing peasants and not much else.

While we're at it, let's go over some of your other combat options. Spiked Chain? LOL NO. Unarmed Strikes? How about you cut off your balls and die instead, to save us all the trouble? Flail? OHOHOHOHO. Halberd? Wait what, this was used by swiss only, ever, and you know what, there's a reason for that. Weapons that are focused on slashing but cannot pierce? AHAHHAHAHAH Go die in a fire, unless killing peasants is your priority, in which case you will be totally awesome. Remember that part of everyone is armored? Yeah.

----------

Now that we have that over with, can we just stop with the "lol weeaboo fightan magixx" stuff with the Bo9S and admit that D&D in general sucks at simulating combat.

[Maat_Mons]

Well, let's face it, ToB is not a very accurate description of any martial arts. Any.

Did you mean to say D&D instead of ToB? 

[Theomniadept]

A-ha! Here's where the real help is. The list of saves is already in my bookmarks as we speak.

Wings of Flying mean I can hover 10 feet in the air and swing a warpike? Solid. Actually...with all I weigh could that be a battle tactic? Fly above and fall on them? Nevermind, bad ideas for summoning...

Heavy Fortification Gemstone is good, I'll note that, but my Con to Will feat already says I can't fail on a 1 for anything including massive damage, and my base fortitude will protect me from that even if I suddenly turn into a zombie and lose my Con. Noting this for other characters though. Loving the other items, especially the ones that don't use slots. I still can't believe I forgot third eyes...not like they can see it under my helmet so it wouldn't look weird.

I wasn't saying full-round running was the best possible idea, but rather than there never was a speed reduction anywhere to begin with sans being bearded. Oh, and the dwarf part too.

Amadi I love you. Now please tell me you are a woman so I don't feel weird. Unarmed Strikes didn't exist for a reason and spiked chains can't threaten spaces because they lie limp on the groun. Although the Halberd could easily be made with a pointy tip, thus why it does slashing or piercing - same as Warpike. And as far as another knight grappling me - that's why my shield has a shield sheathe. Never get caught...full-handed. Odd. This is the reason I shy away from ToB. It's sorta like taking the kidneys from an unconscious vagabond - sure you're better suited with them but it's morally wrong.

[carnivore]

My problem is that people are assuming there's no use whatsoever to Dwarven Defender.

Now, I'm grateful for that feat that uses Con to Will, and Deepwarden 2 seems good but I've never seen a ruling that says whether or not Max Dex on armor translates to Max Con for Deepwarden or whether since there's no such thing as Max Con you can stack Con through the roof. And just so you know for sensibility purposes all my DMs have treated Mithral as a template of sorts.

try page 31 from the Main FAQ from WoTC ... found here:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a

 

[Rebel7284]

It's sorta like taking the kidneys from an unconscious vagabond - sure you're better suited with them but it's morally wrong.

You're right.  Only casters get nice things.  Getting nice things for melee fighters is morally wrong.   

[snakeman830]

Heavy Fortification Gemstone is good, I'll note that, but my Con to Will feat already says I can't fail on a 1 for anything including massive damage, and my base fortitude will protect me from that even if I suddenly turn into a zombie and lose my Con. Noting this for other characters though.

No, you want this.  You definitely want this.  If your DM indulges in sending enemy martial types to attack you, you do NOT want to give them any chance for sneak attack or damage multipliers.  With the number of attacks you seem to be expecting, you want to migitate damage as much as possible. Ensuring that nobody can critical or land precision damage on you is a HUGE step toward survivability.  It doesn't matter that you'll survive massive damage if the damage itself will kill you.

[Theomniadept]

Ehhhh.....I'm not worried about getting hit with Sneak Attack with a flat-footed AC of 60 but there's a 1 in 20 chance of taking multiplicative damage from an enemy with a biiig weapon, so you may be right. What book's the Gemstone of Fortification in?

And I never said I fully expect to take all hits but you do have to take the whole thing into consideration: You can't see an enemy's AC. To you, a full-plate Paladin is worthless, even on his amazing horse (look at it). So my armor will look slightly better than full plate. A Detect Magic would reveal Abjuration spells so thick you have to end the duration of Detect Magic or risk granting me Total Concealment (it's a joke), but I've never heard of an enemy  doing that before battle. If a powerful spellcaster DOES do research (easy enough, I kow) they're still a spellcaster and probably not the easiest to reach unless you're an equally awesome spellcaster. Don't get me wrong, enemies ignoring me isn't a problem for me but they can't see AC so big things that think they can smash everything would still have a chance of attacking me.

[Bozwevial]

IIRC, Deepwarden 2 .... simply Substitutes Con for Dex for AC, thus the Armor still imposes llimites to the Max allowable to be used with AC

 

Oh good, we needed another 50 page thread now that the debate on the DWK is dead.

[snakeman830]

Ehhhh.....I'm not worried about getting hit with Sneak Attack with a flat-footed AC of 60 but there's a 1 in 20 chance of taking multiplicative damage from an enemy with a biiig weapon, so you may be right. What book's the Gemstone of Fortification in?

Draconomicon.

If nothing else, you don't want those spellcasters to have a chance to crit with Enervation and give you twice as many negative levels or the Tarrasque to nail you with a triple damage bite.

[Theomniadept]

Daaaaang man! Heavy Fortification on an armor or shield is expensive but that Gemstone can just be put on my back or something?? 35,000 gp!? Nevermind on the debate, I thought it was an armor crystal or something. That's immediately going on my...every character ever.

Oh wait. I'm a Dwarf. I've got to spend the cash for a Limitted Wish to embed it. That's 910 more gp.

Wait, I'm a Dwarf. I'll just weave the gem into my beard to equip it without paying for the spell.

That Gal-Ralan looks awesome too, especially since it's cheaper than our vests and cloaks of resistance. But it says you have 1 con damage till it's removed. Does that get blocked if I don it after my armor that protects from that?

EDIT: Forgot Parrying was a weapon enchant that's active if you're equipped with the weapon, so that's better off on the armor spikes(since it's always equipped).

[bearsarebrown]

But...then SR's useless why look for spells without it but if you did that it'd be broken but -AGH CYCLICAL LOGIC.

The SR: No spells are the best spells regardless of SR. Not cyclical.

Get Flight. Get really good flight. BoED has a ring that grants 120ft Good. But we seem to go back to the original problem. You state you don't need to use Defensive Stance all the time and you recognize that in many fights it is a bad idea to use it. So... why go Dwarven Defender? Is it the DR? Buy armor or grafts or something else. DR 6 is tiny. Trap Sense is laughable. Uncanny Dodge and Imp are pretty good but can be gained with Incarnum with less feats then you spend on prereqs for this class. The AC bonus isn't terrible. So what do you get? You spent 10 levels on occasionally gaining 2 Str and 4 Con and 4AC. The saves are the same type as every item so they're useless. There is no reason to use this class. I get it, you hate fightan weaboo magixx, you shouldn't and you have terrible reasons for hating it, but I can accept that.

Have you considered Psychic Warrior? Warmind? Both allow for identical character concepts but less MAD and significantly more AC and offensive power. If you dislike the flavor of psionics you can change it. A good example is the Orcs from Warhammer 40K. They have magic powers but are unaware of it. Things they desire just kinda happen. Tanks run without engines and cars painted red go faster because. That's the end of the sentence.

Psychic Warrior 10/Warmind 10 is an extremely simple build that blows this one out of the water. Psychic Warrior 5/Warmind 5/Slayer 10 is even better.

[Rune]

Dragonborn Mongrelfolk with the Mineral Warrior template (+1LA)
Ranger 3/Stoneblessed[Dwarf] 3/Deepwarder 2/Fist of the Forest 1/Dwarf Paragon 3/XX8 probably finish Fist of the Forest

You have +10 Con from your race, +2 from Stoneblessed, +2 from Dwarf Paragon

What this build has: good DR, GOOD MOBILITY, 2x Con to AC, great hit point.

I agree on the dwarf (+con templates e.g., mineral warrior and Feral) + FotF + Deepwarden combo. Another sample here

This can easily bring you up to +30 AC before any armor and it is alot less feat intensive.

[Prime32]

Wings of Flying mean I can hover 10 feet in the air and swing a warpike? Solid. Actually...with all I weigh could that be a battle tactic? Fly above and fall on them?

If you do this...
Play a warforged (large man made of metal)
Take Adamantine Body (large man made of extremely heavy metal)
Take the Obese flaw. You weigh twice as much as a large man made of extremely heavy metal.
Use the bonus feat from that flaw to buy Willling Deformity (obese). You weigh four times as much as a large man made of extremely heavy metal.
Be a psychic warrior or warmind, and manifest expansion. You weigh 32 times as much as a large man made of extremely heavy metal, possibly more if you augment it (512?!).
Take the Battle Jump feat (charge enemies by falling on them, deal extra damage)
Take levels in warforged juggernaut (grow spikes, your charges become more powerful). Falling objects with spikes deal twice as much damage.

So yeah, that's going to hurt. Also you have a bunch of immunities and your skin is adamantine full plate. And you don't get tired, ever. Might as well stick on the Dragonborn (mind) and Saint templates while you're at it.

[Theomniadept]

Wings of Flying mean I can hover 10 feet in the air and swing a warpike? Solid. Actually...with all I weigh could that be a battle tactic? Fly above and fall on them?

If you do this...
Play a warforged (large man made of metal)
Take Adamantine Body (large man made of extremely heavy metal)
Take the Obese flaw. You weigh twice as much as a large man made of extremely heavy metal.
Use the bonus feat from that flaw to buy Willling Deformity (obese). You weigh four times as much as a large man made of extremely heavy metal.
Be a psychic warrior or warmind, and manifest expansion. You weigh 32 times as much as a large man made of extremely heavy metal, possibly more if you augment it (512?!).
Take the Battle Jump feat (charge enemies by falling on them, deal extra damage)
Take levels in warforged juggernaut (grow spikes, your charges become more powerful). Falling objects with spikes deal twice as much damage.

So yeah, that's going to hurt. Also you have a bunch of immunities and your skin is adamantine full plate. And you don't get tired, ever. Might as well stick on the Dragonborn (mind) and Saint templates while you're at it.

...What the heck? No, that's a real build that can do damage using gravity? There's an Obese flaw? At what point do you lose your original templates and become spherical?

[snakeman830]

Oh, that's nothing.  On 339, we actually worked out an even more advanced build from this that focused on getting up to weighing two tons.  Then we used a couple of Reserve feats (Minor Shapeshift and Dimensional Jaunt) on a Hexblade base for all-day, no save, no SR, no attack roll 20d6 damage.  (teleport 10ft above a foe and fall on them.  You take 1d6 falling damage,which is absorbed by your temporary hp).

We called him Anvil

[archangel.arcanis]

Oh, that's nothing.  On 339, we actually worked out an even more advanced build from this that focused on getting up to weighing two tons.  Then we used a couple of Reserve feats (Minor Shapeshift and Dimensional Jaunt) on a Hexblade base for all-day, no save, no SR, no attack roll 20d6 damage.  (teleport 10ft above a foe and fall on them.  You take 1d6 falling damage,which is absorbed by your temporary hp).

We called him Anvil

I may have to find and play that one day. It makes me long for my chance to play a 200lbs halfling ninja who breaks into homes and eats all the food while watching their TV crystal ball.

[Theomniadept]

I knew a sorcerer player who did that - any time he summoned a monster he did it as high as he could above the enemies to do fall damage. Although, damage is done by weight with 200 pounds equaling 1d6 - does the creature take the damage too? I'd imagine being heavier and falling 10 feet would cause more damage to your body.