Author Topic: Under CRed Templates  (Read 6137 times)

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kalaskaagathas

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Under CRed Templates
« on: January 11, 2011, 01:53:38 AM »
I was wondering what Templates were considered to have too low a CR increase for the benefits they provide?  I'm playing a Bard//Fighter (it was that or NPC classes) in a Pathfinder game, and I've already got the Shadow Creature template, but I was wondering what else I might look at.

sir_argenon

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Re: Under CRed Templates
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2011, 02:16:49 AM »
I was wondering what Templates were considered to have too low a CR increase for the benefits they provide?  I'm playing a Bard//Fighter (it was that or NPC classes) in a Pathfinder game, and I've already got the Shadow Creature template, but I was wondering what else I might look at.

half fey and phrenic are amazing for +2 templates.  

EDIT: mineral warrior is almost broken for only a +1 .... at lower lvls nothing will get through that DR.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2011, 02:18:47 AM by sir_argenon »

Rebel7284

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Re: Under CRed Templates
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2011, 02:42:48 AM »
Half-Minotaur from dragon is pretty nice for melee characters, effectively +12 Str for +1 LA.

Also, you're using your terminology wrong.  I don't think you care about CR, you care about LA.
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Ed-Zero

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Re: Under CRed Templates
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2011, 02:49:44 AM »
Feral for +1. Fast healing, improved grab, rend, rake, increase in hit die (to d12 i think), hand size increase, increase in movement by 10ft.

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Re: Under CRed Templates
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2011, 03:54:26 AM »
Feral for +1. Fast healing, improved grab, rend, rake, increase in hit die (to d12 i think), hand size increase, increase in movement by 10ft.
Most of Feral's abilities are based off of RHD, not class HD.  Your typical melee character will only get Improved Grab, and Improved Grab only functions when hitting with a Claw, an attack not available due to the fact that melee chars typically whack things with big swords.

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Re: Under CRed Templates
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2011, 06:39:48 AM »
Also, you're using your terminology wrong.  I don't think you care about CR, you care about LA.
IIRC Pathfinder uses CR instead of LA, like Tome.
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Ed-Zero

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Re: Under CRed Templates
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2011, 06:43:08 AM »
Feral for +1. Fast healing, improved grab, rend, rake, increase in hit die (to d12 i think), hand size increase, increase in movement by 10ft.
Most of Feral's abilities are based off of RHD, not class HD.  Your typical melee character will only get Improved Grab, and Improved Grab only functions when hitting with a Claw, an attack not available due to the fact that melee chars typically whack things with big swords.
That's true, which is why I like the class, but because of how the abilities scale, they start off with improved grab and fast healing 2 which will give them a greater change to level up even higher and attain those other abilities.

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Re: Under CRed Templates
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2011, 08:54:54 AM »
Feral for +1. Fast healing, improved grab, rend, rake, increase in hit die (to d12 i think), hand size increase, increase in movement by 10ft.
Most of Feral's abilities are based off of RHD, not class HD.  Your typical melee character will only get Improved Grab, and Improved Grab only functions when hitting with a Claw, an attack not available due to the fact that melee chars typically whack things with big swords.
That's true, which is why I like the class, but because of how the abilities scale, they start off with improved grab and fast healing 2 which will give them a greater change to level up even higher and attain those other abilities.
No, class HD do not figure into the calculation of the Feral template's abilities.  At the very least, not pounce.  A Feral Human Fighter 4 does not have pounce.

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Re: Under CRed Templates
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2011, 09:24:24 AM »
Also, you're using your terminology wrong.  I don't think you care about CR, you care about LA.
IIRC Pathfinder uses CR instead of LA, like Tome.

Yes, in Pathfinder, ECL is racial CR + class levels. 

I'm going to say monster of legend (Monster Manual II 213). 

RobbyPants

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Re: Under CRed Templates
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2011, 01:27:09 PM »
No, class HD do not figure into the calculation of the Feral template's abilities.  At the very least, not pounce.  A Feral Human Fighter 4 does not have pounce.
Is that specific to Feral, or all templates.  I've heard this before, and I'm curious where I can find that ruling.
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Re: Under CRed Templates
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2011, 01:35:49 PM »
No, class HD do not figure into the calculation of the Feral template's abilities.  At the very least, not pounce.  A Feral Human Fighter 4 does not have pounce.
Is that specific to Feral, or all templates.  I've heard this before, and I'm curious where I can find that ruling.
I would tend to support this question. Because a HD is a HD, no matter what, and IIRC most templates don't specify racial HD, just HD.

Waazraath

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Re: Under CRed Templates
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2011, 01:42:07 PM »
I was wondering what Templates were considered to have too low a CR increase for the benefits they provide?  I'm playing a Bard//Fighter (it was that or NPC classes) in a Pathfinder game, and I've already got the Shadow Creature template, but I was wondering what else I might look at.

saint (heavy prereqs though)

archangel.arcanis

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Re: Under CRed Templates
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2011, 01:48:26 PM »
No, class HD do not figure into the calculation of the Feral template's abilities.  At the very least, not pounce.  A Feral Human Fighter 4 does not have pounce.
Is that specific to Feral, or all templates.  I've heard this before, and I'm curious where I can find that ruling.
It isn't the feral template that states this so it has to be a rule elsewhere or something someone made up and called a rule.
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Re: Under CRed Templates
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2011, 01:54:13 PM »
Guess which template just got even better?
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archangel.arcanis

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Re: Under CRed Templates
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2011, 01:58:32 PM »
Correction. There are 2 tables with abilities and the one with pounce does specify monster HD while the one with darkvision and fast healing doesn't.
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Rebel7284

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Re: Under CRed Templates
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2011, 02:37:26 PM »
Correction. There are 2 tables with abilities and the one with pounce does specify monster HD while the one with darkvision and fast healing doesn't.

The feral template also turns ALL HD into D10s and the type to monstrous humanoid.  So one COULD argue that they're being redundant and referring to the monstrous humanoid HD which are now all HD including class ones.  That's however over-thinking and twisting the wording so your mileage may vary. :)
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Re: Under CRed Templates
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2011, 02:50:00 PM »
Guess which template just got even better?

Ghost?  Vampire?  Half-whatever?

Telekinesis and immortality for 2 LA?  No wonder people hate Pathfinder.
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Re: Under CRed Templates
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2011, 02:50:12 PM »
Also, you're using your terminology wrong.  I don't think you care about CR, you care about LA.
IIRC Pathfinder uses CR instead of LA, like Tome.

Yes, in Pathfinder, ECL is racial CR + class levels.  

I'm going to say monster of legend (Monster Manual II 213).  
WHAT?! @ a +7 LA, it's almost unplayable, unless you're doing gestalt or something.

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I think in this case the grammar is less important than whether the Str and Dex bonus provided to your created undead scales.

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Re: Under CRed Templates
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2011, 02:56:01 PM »
But MoL is on +2 CR, thus for Pathfinder it is fantastic.
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Re: Under CRed Templates
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2011, 03:04:42 PM »
But MoL is on +2 CR, thus for Pathfinder it is fantastic.
oh, right -- Pathfinder :facepalm

hold on ...

...HOLY MOTHER OF GOD -- ONLY A +2?!?!  that's just f'n ridiculous. (that took a minute to percolate)

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If you stop ignoring 289 pages telling what the intent is to stretch "more power" in your own god complexion of your interpretation trumps all to cover ability adjustments from aging then I will ignore a quarter page of rules that exist within a sidebar.
I think in this case the grammar is less important than whether the Str and Dex bonus provided to your created undead scales.

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