Author Topic: Cute Bruiser [3.5 template, wip]  (Read 9240 times)

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VennDygrem

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Cute Bruiser [3.5 template, wip]
« on: January 10, 2011, 05:24:36 AM »
Cute Bruiser
[spoiler][/spoiler]
Like the Old Master, the Cute Bruiser is a living, breathing, frequently painful lesson in never judging a book by its cover. She appears to be a child (or a particularly small young woman, though young males can also fill this role), but in battle she fights like a bruiser. Traditional bruisers are large husky men who win fights due to their size and strength allowing them to both absorb and put out heavy damage. This contrast between appearance and combat style is what makes the Cute Bruiser surprising.

Creating a Cute Bruiser
"Cute Bruiser" is an acquired or inherited template that can be added to any humanoid-shaped creature (usually any bipedal creature with two arms and a head), hereafter referred to as the base creature.

Size and Type: Both remain unchanged (but see Pintsized Powerhouse, below).

Hit Dice: Racial hit dice become d10, as though for a Fighter. Hit dice gained from class levels remain unchanged.

AC: Cute Bruisers gain a natural armor bonus equal to their Charisma modifier, or keep the base creature's natural armor bonus, whichever is higher. Furthermore, as long as they wear no other armor, they may enchant their body as though it were a suit of masterwork armor.

Base Attack: Racial base attack bonus become equal to total racial hit dice (as fighter).

Attacks: Cute Bruisers can deal tremendous blows with any appendage of their body, whether from punches, kicks, or headbutts. The base creature gains a single slam attack as a primary natural weapon if it did not already have one. Since most cute bruisers gain their superior strength from supernatural means as opposed to having huge muscles, this natural slam can be enchanted as though it were a masterwork weapon.

Cute Bruisers have a special affinity for the Monk class and similar classes that grant the Unarmed Strike class feature. Cute Bruisers who gain or already have levels in such a class do not gain the normal Unarmed Strike or Flurry of Blows class features, and instead have two natural slam attacks which are treated as the Monk's Unarmed Strike for all purposes of prerequisites. Cute Bruiser Monks do not get extra attacks in a round from having a high base attack bonus. However, at 8th level and every 4 levels thereafter, they may make one extra Slam attack in a round, making the Cute Bruiser several times deadlier than any normal Monk. A Cute Bruiser without levels in Monk or Unarmed Swordsage do not gain these extra attacks.

Damage: The base damage for a Cute Bruiser's slam attack is 1d8 for a medium-sized creature. This damage increases one step automatically with every 5 HD the creature has.

If the base creature gains or already has levels in Monk or similar classes, use the monk's damage progression in place of the base damage for the slam, increasing this amount by one step the slam attack would otherwise gain. For instance, if a Cute Bruiser is a 10th level Monk, their base damage would be 1d10, which would then be increased two steps (for having 10 HD) for a total of 3d8 damage.

Special Qualities: A Cute Bruiser retains all special qualities from the base creature, and also gains the following ones:
  • Pintsized Powerhouse (Ex):
  • Little Badass: A Cute Bruiser is undeniably impressive in combat, brushing off direct blows that would cripple grown men. They gain Damage Reduction equal to 1/2 their total HD, overcome by magic weapons. At 5 HD, their damage reduction can only be overcome by magic adamantine weapons, and at 10 HD and higher their damage reduction can not be overcome by any sort of weapon.

Abilities: +2 Str, +4 Cha

Skills: As base creature, plus Bluff and Diplomacy +4.

Environment: As base creature.
Organization: Solitary or as base creature.
Challenge Rating: As base creature +2
Alignment: Any
Advancement: As base creature or by character class.
Level Adjustment: +1 (High)
« Last Edit: April 21, 2011, 03:41:27 AM by VennDygrem »

VennDygrem

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Re: Cute Bruiser [3.5 template, wip]
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2011, 05:24:49 AM »
Changelog:
[spoiler]-Changed Type prereq from 'humanoid, monstrous humanoid, fey, giant, or outsider' to 'any humanoid-shaped creature'
-Overhauled template using Senevri's recommendations
-Decided to allow the slam to be enchanted. I hate making players buy a separate item just for natural weapons to be made magic (necklace of natural weapons). Plus, there's plenty of support for a cute bruiser with flaming fists. :)

4/21/11:
Nerfed template a bit to, well, balance isn't the word. It is slightly less over-powered for it's LA, but once again, LA isn't an adequate or appropriate system to base this upon.
*Reduced Racial HD boost from d12 to d10
*Reworded section on natural attacks and damage to clarify interaction with Monk classes, referring to it as an 'affinity' for those classes
*Changed bonus attacks from extra per bonus Flurry attack to one extra at 8th level and one per 4 HD after that
*Removed clause allowing Cute Bruisers to wield weapons of larger sizes than them; Though flavorful and supported by the trope, Cute Bruisers fight with their fists. Other tropes exist for oversized weaponry.
*Changed 'Little Badass' DR. Now just flat 1/2 HD.
*Reduced starting Strength bonus, removed Con bonus; Cute Bruisers can often take a hit fairly well, but that can be left to class levels or stat arrangement. Left Cha bonus for synergy with natural armor bonus and skills, as well as flavor to help justify the 'Cute' in Cute Bruiser.
[/spoiler]

So, this obviously isn't the final version. It's the first template I've tried to create from scratch, and I'm sure I need to scale it back, and/or make other modifications.

Here are some issues I'm mulling over:
  • Should the template be available to more than just Humanoids?
  • Should the template change the creature type? To what? (Monstrous Humanoid? Outsider?)
  • Are there any other abilities that would be more appropriate? Should they be added, or replace existing ones?
  • Are existing abilities too far-fetched? How should the abilities be scaled back? What should just be removed?
  • What LA should it be? Ideally it'd just be LA +1, because most templates over that aren't worth taking.

The point of the template is to make a character capable of emulating the Trope, and even the special qualities are named after thematically similar tropes. It's not meant for most serious games.

The idea is to generate a small, even youthful character capable of being a melee powerhouse. Thus, they are capable of dumping strength and focusing on being charismatic and adorable, and thus capable of dealing damage in melee combat, grappling/tripping/etc even larger enemies, and even managing to pull off moderate tanking duties (as outlined in the trope article). The most relevant abilities as listed in the article are being able to "absorb and put out heavy damage," being capable of "some tanking abilities," and focusing on "Good Old Fisticuffs, a club, or martial arts that focus on direct blows to your opponent instead of pressure points or judo throws."

Other ideas for abilities might be some form of fast healing, better (even scaling) AC bonuses, scaling size bonuses (such as counting as even larger sizes for Pintsize Powerhouse at certain HD milestones), or anything else that can help them the Cute Bruiser do what it does best.

Any thoughts/ideas?
« Last Edit: April 21, 2011, 03:42:35 AM by VennDygrem »

veekie

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Re: Cute Bruiser [3.5 template, wip]
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2011, 09:49:15 AM »
Quote
Should the template be available to more than just Humanoids?
Imagine a cute lil bunny.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

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VennDygrem

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Re: Cute Bruiser [3.5 template, wip]
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2011, 02:35:35 PM »
Quote
Should the template be available to more than just Humanoids?
Imagine a cute lil bunny.

Well, what I mean is that I was thinking maybe it should be open to all the humanoid-shaped creature types. Humanoids, Monstrous Humanoids, Fey, Giants, and Outsiders. Or any combination thereof.

Catty Nebulart

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Re: Cute Bruiser [3.5 template, wip]
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2011, 02:44:32 PM »
imagine a Petal (MM3, think pixie-lite) with this template :) -10 racial str modifier hood actually being viable.
E: "Did they... did they just endorse the combination of the JSDF and US Army by showing them as two lesbian lolicons moving in together and holding hands and talking about how 'intimate' they were?"
B: "Have you forgotten so soon? They're phasing out Don't Ask, Don't Tell."

AtomicKitKat

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Re: Cute Bruiser [3.5 template, wip]
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2011, 02:48:26 PM »
Think of me as "Needlessly Complicating Guy". RP-wise, maybe you should be smaller than normal for your race(either falling into the lower half of the die-roll, or taking the equivalent of the Midget Trait. :D

VennDygrem

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Re: Cute Bruiser [3.5 template, wip]
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2011, 03:20:07 PM »
The reason I didn't actually reduce their size is so I wouldn't have to say they function as two sizes larger than normal. It wouldn't be much of a problem if I made the effective sizes scale and increase cumulatively, but there can be other disadvantages of actually being smaller-sized that I didn't want the character to deal with. Afterall, this template isn't meant to be based in reality, and is more influenced by comic books and anime, those that define the trope of the same name.

If it's just an RP issue, the player is encouraged to make their character smaller than average for their race, and perhaps I should write that into the 'Pintsized Powerhouse' ability.

As for balance, I was thinking one way to reduce its power down to LA+1 would be to make Pintsized Powerhouse just be Powerful Build instead of Powerful Build + Slight Build. Though honestly, Slight Build doesn't add all the much. After all, they added it onto the Kobold to help bring it up to a normal-power race, along with a couple other things.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2011, 03:30:32 PM by VennDygrem »

Agita

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Re: Cute Bruiser [3.5 template, wip]
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2011, 03:40:27 PM »
Hell yes, one of my favourite tropes. Why didn't I notice this sooner?

Pint-Sized Powerhouse looks fine to me and, honestly, so does Little Miss Badass. What really makes this template potent, and puts it well beyond +1 LA at the moment, is the Badass Adorable ability. It basically lets you use Cha for everything you'd use Str for (except carrying capacity, apparently), and that's huge. I do think this should totally be available to nonhumanoids - especially many Fey could get a lot out of it, and it's in-flavor for some too.
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VennDygrem

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Re: Cute Bruiser [3.5 template, wip]
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2011, 03:49:09 PM »
Well, I honestly want to find a way to keep the Badass Adorable ability in some capacity. It's basically meant to roll some parts of the Verbose Assault feat into the template, replacing the other abilities with being able to apply cha to skills and grapple/bull rush etc. I suppose I could cut it down to just attack and maaaybe damage... Would it be fine as is if I staggered it so you get the different parts scaled at different levels? Or would it still be too far over +1?

Senevri

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Re: Cute Bruiser [3.5 template, wip]
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2011, 04:00:26 PM »
Immunity to fear effects is not part of the core concept. If you want to keep it for flavor, just use +2 vs. fear, which is better ( and I think, isn't completely bypassed by Dread Witches, either )
Badass Adorable doesn't make sense in the concept. Cute Bruisers often actually ARE that strong.

What you're looking at Badass Adorable trope is a combination of the two, and you're already trying to put in the Badass other ways, you just must put in adorable. I suggest giving them a +4 to all charisma-based checks to influence attitude positively, also combining it with a -4 intimidate penalty.
The -2 STR is pointless. As it's usually applied to small-size creatures anyway, or young ones, they don't need an additional strength penalty. In fact, I'd rather give them +2 STR. (as even relatively weak cute bruisers typically fight with the capacity of an adult. )

As for the race limitations, it gets tricky, as it currently excludes Elans, at the very least. Any humanoid type is probably enough of a limitation.


VennDygrem

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Re: Cute Bruiser [3.5 template, wip]
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2011, 04:23:16 PM »
Hmm, good points.

As for the fear immunity, I was looking to give them something to round out the ability. I figured giving them DR made sense, but thought that waiting until 5 HD would help keep the LA down a bit. But in doing so I thought there had to be something to be gained immediately. Perhaps I'll change it as you suggested.

The -2 str is mostly pointless, especially if charisma completely overtakes strength.

The idea was that since cute bruisers don't actually get their strength from having huge muscles, they get it from something else, ie: their force of personality and character. That's mostly why I tried to overwrite str with cha. It also helps keep a melee-oriented cha-dependent character from getting too MAD.

How about I change Badass Adorable so it gives the cha mod for attacks usually using the str modifier, and allow them to add their cha mod as a bonus to 2 str-based skills of their choice? And then I can make the cha to damage a feat with Prerequisites of having Cha 15 and the Cute Bruiser template? Possibly a BAB pre-req, too, if you guys think it'd need it. I could also make the fear immunity a feat chain, starting with a +2 bonus vs. fear and the second feat granting immunity?
« Last Edit: January 10, 2011, 04:53:01 PM by VennDygrem »

Senevri

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Re: Cute Bruiser [3.5 template, wip]
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2011, 05:25:23 PM »
How about a flat 1/2 HD in DR? It's not any harder to track, would give a bit of extra oomph early on, and wouldn't outshine various PrC's and such DR /X so badly. Fiendish, which is underpowered and overpriced, merely grants DR 10/magic, for comparison. at +2 LA.

Here's a sample example of what I'd do for the concept:
1. Benefits of Large size, including +2 size to STR and carrying capacity, when favorable, excepting reach, but none of the drawbacks.
2. +4 Str (total +6), Con, Cha
3. +5 natural AC.
4. +4 cuteness bonus on Diplomacy and Bluff checks.
5. the 1d8 Slam attack as described in the OP would be fine
6. So would the D12 HD.

Basically, what's up there is a REALLY toned down Ogre, sans racial HD, or most of it's abilities and so forth, and a positive charisma modifier.

I'm not trying to go for crunch benefits, just to get the flavor and behavior included as simply as possible.

A humanoid commoner young cute bruiser could most likely defeat grown men just fine. Really Seven Hundred Years Old cute bruisers who aren't that STR-focused, are never-the-less as strong as someone who goes to a gym. 
There is ONE ability I think is necessary for a cute bruiser to work as expected over a campaign, though...

How do you feel about the CB counting as huge on 6 HD, Gargantuan at 12, Colossal at 18? I think it shouldn't be disallowed from  being able to bull rush, grapple and trip the Tarrasque, by a flat 'no you can't' by the rules....

VennDygrem

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Re: Cute Bruiser [3.5 template, wip]
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2011, 06:05:11 PM »
The scaling effective size is something I was considering, but was hesitant about as far as balancing the LA. However, I think your changes are all fairly acceptable. The Str bonus doesn't have to denote large muscles, as that's just fluff really.

Now, one more thing. I was looking at the creature types in the SRD, and the thing that stood out was that Giant is listed as:
"A giant is a humanoid-shaped creature of great strength, usually of at least Large size."
Emphasis on "usually." A cute bruiser could technically be a small or medium sized Giant, which I find to be amusing. Would there be any imbalance to changing creature type to Giant, on top of the above suggested changes?

Also, Senevri, what LA would you suggest for the set of abilities you describe?
btw, the d12 was a maximum HD change. If a creature normally has d6 HD, they move up to d8. Unless you think the HD should just go up to d12, instead, as though they were a Barbarian.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2011, 06:07:30 PM by VennDygrem »

Senevri

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Re: Cute Bruiser [3.5 template, wip]
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2011, 07:20:24 PM »
Well...
I think what I'm suggesting is a strong +1 LA right now. most of +1 LA are sort of underwhelming. I took a look at Hobgoblins and Ogres, obviously. Hobs get +2 in two stats and a bunch of racial abilities, OTOH WotC overvalued Strength OTOH part 2, it's less than a half dragon's stat boosts, there are no immunities or darkvision and so forth.

I think the HD scaling is necessary, or the character simply CAN'T be in the same playground with Huge+ creatures. I guess a clause about this benefit overlapping with any _actual_ size changes would be necessary, and I'm not sure if they should get the subsequent STR boosts - probably not without increase in LA.

The only effect of a Giant type is becoming immune to x person spells, I think... and more vulnerable to dwarves and less able to hit them. It's mostly a wash.

VennDygrem

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Re: Cute Bruiser [3.5 template, wip]
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2011, 07:24:31 PM »
Ok, so I think I know how to proceed, then. Thanks. You'll get some major credit for helping with this. :)

VennDygrem

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Re: Cute Bruiser [3.5 template, wip]
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2011, 09:04:53 PM »
Altered with minor modification based on the above suggestions.

The other changes from Giant type would be gaining Low-light vision and proficiency with martial weapons, the latter of which is not necessary since they are likely to use their slam attack or melee bludgeoning weapons anyway, and they can gain that from their class. Since there's no real precedent for any change to vision, that boost is also moot. A Cute Bruiser will have to rely on spells from party-members or magic items in order to gain special vision, unless they have it from their race. So I decided creature type remains unaltered.

Senevri

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Re: Cute Bruiser [3.5 template, wip]
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2011, 12:08:09 AM »
It looks fine for testing. ;) The stat increases are a bit beyond WotC recommendations, but those are pretty conservative, anyway. I'd still like to hear other people's opinions, though.

VennDygrem

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Re: Cute Bruiser [3.5 template, wip]
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2011, 12:22:21 AM »
I had thought as much. I mean, it gets a bunch of boosts, so even something like Lolth-touched which gets +6 str and con still doesn't get a whole lot beyond that and fear-immunity.

Even feral, which is well-known as a strong template for its LA, has ability scores of +4 str, -2 dex, +2 con, -4 Int, +2 wis, which comes out ahead but still has some hefty penalties.

I just don't think I can really justify penalizing any of the stats for this template. Especially given it's meant for somewhat silly characters to begin with. I mean, it's named after a trope, after all.

Littha

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Re: Cute Bruiser [3.5 template, wip]
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2011, 12:32:54 AM »
Reading through it seems like good fun, I would increase the DR a bit (DR 5 at level 10 isn't all that impressive, nor is DR 10 at level 20) possibly to equal to HD.

Senevri

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Re: Cute Bruiser [3.5 template, wip]
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2011, 12:47:48 AM »
...For a LA 1 template? Keep in mind, most LA 1 templates go up to 10/magic or some equally easily passable... and a DR of just few points is nice at low levels. Now, front-loading it could be argued, say, dr 5/-, +1 per 4 levels. That's some serious toughness early on.