Author Topic: Fair PC LA for DMG2 "NPC" Templates  (Read 7134 times)

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Bozwevial

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Re: Fair PC LA for DMG2 "NPC" Templates
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2011, 01:57:18 AM »
Hmm... I could get wildshape as a level 11 druid, a fifth level sorcerer spell as a SLA OR best of all I could get a fighter bonus feat.  Those are totally the same level of power!
Maybe if Leadership were a fighter bonus feat.

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Fair PC LA for DMG2 "NPC" Templates
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2011, 01:58:15 AM »
Yeah, if you could meet the prereqs for it.
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Bozwevial

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Re: Fair PC LA for DMG2 "NPC" Templates
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2011, 02:05:19 AM »
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Re: Fair PC LA for DMG2 "NPC" Templates
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2011, 02:14:00 AM »
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Prime32

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Re: Fair PC LA for DMG2 "NPC" Templates
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2011, 10:39:01 AM »
Hmm... I could get wildshape as a level 11 druid, a fifth level sorcerer spell as a SLA OR best of all I could get a fighter bonus feat.  Those are totally the same level of power!
Judging by divine minion it must be LA +0. :p

What about gaining (a) class feature(s) as an X of half your level, and adding one of X's class skills to your list for all classes? So an lv20 fighter with past life (wizard) could cast as a wizard 10 and have Spellcraft as a class skill.
  • Wizard/sorcerer/cleric: Spellcasting (half level)
  • Druid: Spellcasting (half level) OR wildshape (half level) OR animal companion (half level)
  • Ranger: Favoured enemies (half level) OR animal companion (full level)
  • Bard: Bardic knowledge and Bardic music (half level)
  • Paladin: Spellcasting and smite evil (full level)
  • Rogue: Sneak attack (full level)
  • Barbarian: Rage (full level)
  • Monk: Unarmed strike and flurry (full level)

Yeah, those aren't all at the same level of power. Maybe introduce more fractions like 2/3
« Last Edit: January 09, 2011, 10:49:13 AM by Prime32 »
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Runestar

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Re: Fair PC LA for DMG2 "NPC" Templates
« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2011, 10:48:56 AM »
One thing's for sure, prodigy is not worth even +1LA.

Guardian spirit is crap as well, since you eventually get rings of protection, superseding its benefit.

In fact, I think the LA was based off the assumption you get them at 1st lv. If you had the benefits scale (ie: start off weaker, then slowly improve), the LA would drop dramatically.

Alternatively, make them cost a feat (the most I would pay for the weaker traits).
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McPoyo

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Re: Fair PC LA for DMG2 "NPC" Templates
« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2011, 03:30:40 PM »
Int Prodigy can be a little ridiculous in low level games if you set up for it. I let PCs take these at about the levels discussed here, and had a Factotum grab Int Prodigy, and Knowledge Devotion. It threw a wrench in the game I had to get really creative around. All the others were fine, that I saw, but the Int one has issues as a +1/
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They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

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Aliment

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Re: Fair PC LA for DMG2 "NPC" Templates
« Reply #27 on: January 09, 2011, 09:18:17 PM »
Prodigy would be a really nice template to slap onto a factotum. Prophet isn't too great (comparable to Uncanny Dodge, perhaps?). Vestigal Twin would be nice on any sort of caster or someone with UMD. I don't have LEoF, so I can't compare it to a sharn.

Wow, I never thought of that.  An Intelligent Prodigy Factotum would suffer 2 La (1 in this system) and get away with +2 Int and +4 skill bonus to all Int, Str, and Dex based skills.  Pretty nice synergy, although I think A Charisma prodigy on a Sorceror would be better because Charisma powers the best skills.
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McPoyo

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Re: Fair PC LA for DMG2 "NPC" Templates
« Reply #28 on: January 09, 2011, 10:30:46 PM »
Prodigy would be a really nice template to slap onto a factotum. Prophet isn't too great (comparable to Uncfanny Dodge, perhaps?). Vestigal Twin would be nice on any sort of caster or someone with UMD. I don't have LEoF, so I can't compare it to a sharn.

Wow, I never thought of that.  An Intelligent Prodigy Factotum would suffer 2 La (1 in this system) and get away with +2 Int and +4 skill bonus to all Int, Str, and Dex based skills.  Pretty nice synergy, although I think A Charisma prodigy on a Sorceror would be better because Charisma powers the best skills.
or a 1 level dip with cha motivating Marshall diplomancy...
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

Bozwevial

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Re: Fair PC LA for DMG2 "NPC" Templates
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2011, 01:03:54 AM »
Prodigy would be a really nice template to slap onto a factotum. Prophet isn't too great (comparable to Uncanny Dodge, perhaps?). Vestigal Twin would be nice on any sort of caster or someone with UMD. I don't have LEoF, so I can't compare it to a sharn.

Wow, I never thought of that.  An Intelligent Prodigy Factotum would suffer 2 La (1 in this system) and get away with +2 Int and +4 skill bonus to all Int, Str, and Dex based skills.  Pretty nice synergy, although I think A Charisma prodigy on a Sorceror would be better because Charisma powers the best skills.
Nah, you wouldn't get the bonus to Str and Dex based skills. Brains over Brawn just gives you a bonus equal to your Intelligence modifier on those checks; it doesn't replace the modifier. You would get a pretty nice bonus to Knowledge skills, though.

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Fair PC LA for DMG2 "NPC" Templates
« Reply #30 on: January 10, 2011, 01:17:59 AM »
The phrasing
Quote
additional +4 bonus on any of her check modifiers that are based on that ability (including ability checks and skill checks), improving those modifiers by a total of +5.
And
Quote
You gain your intelligence bonus as a modifier on

Seem to indicate the synergy works.
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Bozwevial

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Re: Fair PC LA for DMG2 "NPC" Templates
« Reply #31 on: January 10, 2011, 01:22:08 AM »
Hmm. Yeah, okay, I can see that.

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Fair PC LA for DMG2 "NPC" Templates
« Reply #32 on: January 10, 2011, 01:23:19 AM »
I have to admit, though, both of them have rather unusual wording. 
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Bozwevial

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Re: Fair PC LA for DMG2 "NPC" Templates
« Reply #33 on: January 10, 2011, 01:26:39 AM »
It's kind of hard to put a definite LA on that template, really. It'd be a steal at LA +1 for a factotum or even a wizard (as long as you can buy it off; +2 Int and +4 to Int-based skills probably isn't worth a caster level), but a warblade or something wouldn't get nearly as much mileage out of it.

Runestar

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Re: Fair PC LA for DMG2 "NPC" Templates
« Reply #34 on: January 10, 2011, 07:44:05 AM »
They come with racial Hit Dice on top of their LA though, right?
4 RHD and 5 LA.

Of course, the race grants spells cast as spell-likes as a 6th level favored soul and sorcerer, plus a stupid ton of goodies.  The designers were on crack when they designed it.
Then it was a pity they didn't smoke more of it. Then we wouldn't have stinkers like complete psi or savage species (which I admit was a novel concept, but the ECLs were way inflated to the extent that most monsters just weren't worth playing).  :(

That said, +12LA for dominate monster 1/day? Were they afraid you might go around charming tarrasques at 1st lv or something?  ??? If they are that paranoid, maybe let it start off as charm person, then slowly upgrade to dominate monster over the course of 20 lvs, I guess.
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Amechra

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Re: Fair PC LA for DMG2 "NPC" Templates
« Reply #35 on: June 07, 2011, 11:35:29 PM »
Hmm, is it even OK to have class-based bonii to LA? What if a character takes Intelligence Prodigy, and then takes a level or two in Factotum a couple levels later? Would you have the LA increase, or something?
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PlzBreakMyCampaign

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Re: Fair PC LA for DMG2 "NPC" Templates
« Reply #36 on: June 09, 2011, 03:53:04 PM »
I had assumed it was more than a dip (3+ levels). I suppose there's no harm in Factotum 2 with prodigy.
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