Author Topic: Brain storming thread for gestalt hand book  (Read 15343 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Saeomon

  • That monkey with the orange ass cheeks
  • ****
  • Posts: 292
  • A real rules lawyer
Re: Brain storming thread for gestalt hand book
« Reply #20 on: December 27, 2010, 10:25:57 PM »
How to Win at Gestalt in Three Simple Steps
1. Pick two casting classes that use the same casting stat
2. !
3. Profit

Bester

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 187
    • Email
Re: Brain storming thread for gestalt hand book
« Reply #21 on: December 27, 2010, 10:38:55 PM »
I would go sorcerer if just for the primal series and heart of series.  Long duration buffs are fun.

When I first proposed my group's game, I showed them the tiers system and suggested heavily against taking more than 1 class at tier 1 or tier 2.  I didn't vote no to any character(we vote in characters), because it's E6.  I would not even consider gestalt with the 20 levels.  In a way, druid is gestalted already.  So that class is neat.  Druid//Factotum, screw the synergies and spam extra actions.

weenog

  • Grape ape
  • *****
  • Posts: 1706
Re: Brain storming thread for gestalt hand book
« Reply #22 on: December 27, 2010, 10:39:44 PM »
How to Win at Gestalt in Three Simple Steps
1. Pick two casting classes that use the same casting stat
2. !
3. Profit

Or if you're not going for double Tier 1 insanity, you could at least try to pick classes where you actually get something out of taking the better progression from each side.

Weak Fort and Will and strong Ref on one side, and weak Fort and Will and strong Ref on the other side, not so good.  3/4 BAB and 3/4 BAB, none too impressive either.  Something like a ranger/cleric combo, you wind up with 4/4 BAB, strong base saves across the board, loads of skill points and some pretty good skills to spend them on.  That's not even getting into what cleric personal buffs can do for a wannabe combat wombat.
"We managed to make an NPC puke an undead monster."
"That sounds like a victory to me."

Saeomon

  • That monkey with the orange ass cheeks
  • ****
  • Posts: 292
  • A real rules lawyer
Re: Brain storming thread for gestalt hand book
« Reply #23 on: December 27, 2010, 11:03:40 PM »
How to Win at Gestalt in Three Simple Steps
1. Pick two casting classes that use the same casting stat
2. !
3. Profit

Or if you're not going for double Tier 1 insanity, you could at least try to pick classes where you actually get something out of taking the better progression from each side.

Weak Fort and Will and strong Ref on one side, and weak Fort and Will and strong Ref on the other side, not so good.  3/4 BAB and 3/4 BAB, none too impressive either.  Something like a ranger/cleric combo, you wind up with 4/4 BAB, strong base saves across the board, loads of skill points and some pretty good skills to spend them on.  That's not even getting into what cleric personal buffs can do for a wannabe combat wombat.

The way I see it, there are four kinds of gestalt builds:

1. The "double Tier 1 insanity" builds, as you put it.  :)
2. The half caster, half action economy breaker builds.
3. The half caster, half weakness mitigatior builds.
4. The I-get-to-play-a-halfway-decent-fighter-character build.

Numbers 1 and 2 are the gods of gestalt. Sometimes 1 and 2 can be the same build.

Number 3 is what I believe gestalt was intended to be. Like you noted, Ranger makes a great component of such a build.

Number 4 is what I think attracts most people to gestalt. It's wish fulfillment because, hey, you can finally play a Monk that's competent at melee combat. The problem is that gestalt doesn't alleviate any of the balance issues. If anything, it magnifies them.

weenog

  • Grape ape
  • *****
  • Posts: 1706
Re: Brain storming thread for gestalt hand book
« Reply #24 on: December 27, 2010, 11:24:40 PM »
I think whether 4 works depends on what you mean by "fighter character".  If you're talking a mundane, then yeah, good luck cause you're gonna need it.  If you just mean someone good at charging into close quarters and smashing the crap out of things physically, I don't think gestalt necessarily makes that a dead end.  Take a fairly standard tashalatora psywar and plug in cleric or druid, and it should be an extremely potent brute, while remaining far from worthless when being a brute doesn't help.
"We managed to make an NPC puke an undead monster."
"That sounds like a victory to me."

Prime32

  • Administrator
  • Organ Grinder
  • *
  • Posts: 7534
  • Modding since 03/12/10
Re: Brain storming thread for gestalt hand book
« Reply #25 on: December 27, 2010, 11:26:09 PM »
Why the heck would anyone play a fighter//warblade (add bonus feats... that's it) when they could play a feat rogue//warblade?

And I was scratching my head at the idea that a monk with more feats wins the game.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2010, 11:29:58 PM by Prime32 »
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

weenog

  • Grape ape
  • *****
  • Posts: 1706
Re: Brain storming thread for gestalt hand book
« Reply #26 on: December 27, 2010, 11:29:56 PM »
Why the heck would anyone play a fighter//warblade (add bonus feats... that's it) when they could play a feat rogue//warblade?

And I was scratching my head at the idea that a monk with more feats wins the game.
Lack of respect for Reflex saves and skill points?


That monk one kind of stumped me too, but I figured maybe it was possible he knew something I didn't, for that one.  At least you get a decent Will save on your fighter.
"We managed to make an NPC puke an undead monster."
"That sounds like a victory to me."

Saeomon

  • That monkey with the orange ass cheeks
  • ****
  • Posts: 292
  • A real rules lawyer
Re: Brain storming thread for gestalt hand book
« Reply #27 on: December 27, 2010, 11:33:49 PM »
I think whether 4 works depends on what you mean by "fighter character".  If you're talking a mundane, then yeah, good luck cause you're gonna need it.  If you just mean someone good at charging into close quarters and smashing the crap out of things physically, I don't think gestalt necessarily makes that a dead end.  Take a fairly standard tashalatora psywar and plug in cleric or druid, and it should be an extremely potent brute, while remaining far from worthless when being a brute doesn't help.

That build falls more into number 2 or number 3 of my (admittedly) very inexact, oversimplified list. I say that because Psywar is good at both breaking the action economy, due to Psionic Lion's Charge and Hustle, and at shoring up weaknesses, due to its bonus feats and defensive buffs.

But I do see what you mean and otherwise agree with you. :)

skydragonknight

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 3297
Re: Brain storming thread for Gestalt hand book
« Reply #28 on: December 27, 2010, 11:58:21 PM »
Okay, Paladin Soulknife?  Seriously?  NO!  Suck+Suck does not make Good.

That said, I can see a definite argument for Crusader/Knight as an excellent lockdown tank.  Bump the Crusader to a D12 (just because extra hit points are always fun), give it good Will saves (in addition to adding the Cha mod to them), no more auto-failure of saves on 1's, and even more BFC abilities with the capstone of Loyal Beyond Death (combined with Stance of Immortal Fortitude, this can keep him going way longer than he should be able to).

Can you use maneuvers mounted? If so, White Raven Charges + Spirited Charge is pretty nice even with a valorous spike chain instead of a lance.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2010, 12:05:43 AM by skydragonknight »
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

snakeman830

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 3494
  • BG's resident furry min/maxxer
Re: Brain storming thread for Gestalt hand book
« Reply #29 on: December 28, 2010, 12:16:16 AM »
Okay, Paladin Soulknife?  Seriously?  NO!  Suck+Suck does not make Good.

That said, I can see a definite argument for Crusader/Knight as an excellent lockdown tank.  Bump the Crusader to a D12 (just because extra hit points are always fun), give it good Will saves (in addition to adding the Cha mod to them), no more auto-failure of saves on 1's, and even more BFC abilities with the capstone of Loyal Beyond Death (combined with Stance of Immortal Fortitude, this can keep him going way longer than he should be able to).

Can you use maneuvers mounted? If so, White Raven Charges + Spirited Charge is pretty nice even with a valorous spike chain instead of a lance.
I see no reason why not.
I am constantly amazed by how many DM's ban Tomb of Battle.  The book doesn't even exist!

Quotes:[spoiler]
By yes, she means no.
That explains so much about my life.
hiicantcomeupwithacharacterthatisntaghostwhyisthatamijustretardedorsomething
Why would you even do this? It hurts my eyes and looks like you ate your keyboard before suffering an attack of explosive diarrhea.
[/spoiler]

If using Genesis to hide your phylactry, set it at -300 degrees farenheit.  See how do-gooders fare with a liquid atmosphere.

Stormcrow

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 414
Re: Brain storming thread for gestalt hand book
« Reply #30 on: December 28, 2010, 12:53:07 AM »
Primary Classes Should help in determination what type of character does primary
Secondary Classes now because gestalt takes two classes and combines two classes to this is where all classes have things that can add to enhance a character some does that more than other so I will list the Class and the strengths that the class can bring and some examples of applying them.

Warning the Next Wall of Text will hurt some people eyes
[spoiler]
Note :  Did not list any NPC  classes or variants and if I had forgotten any sorry it may be added later.

NOTE = most of these are the option of the writer and I have been wrong in the past. And a apologies now if I do say something about a classes that people like

Archivist = and intelligent based divine class that has access to any divine spell very good with combined with the wizard.  

Artificer = artificer is very good at making and using magic items and can cast any spell in the game

Barbarian = Strength and Constitution bonuses, fast movement, and a d12 hit die.  Over all very useful for Gish builds

Bard =  need more research  or exparance for option on this class in this class  

Crusader = One of the best tank classes in the game

Cleric = Second most powerful Class in the game

Druid = I will have to argue that this is one of the most powerful classes in the game.


Duskblade = The duskblade can cast in armour, A d8 hit dice and full BAB make obtain familiar/improved familiar viable feat choices not bad  over all as a secondary  class

Dead Necromancer = need more research  or exparance for option on this class in this class  

Factotum = One of the Best Skill monkeys in the game best combined with any class that needed a High intelligence Score.

Favoured soul = Very Good Spell list and weapon focuses feat ling

Fighter = Useful Feats and One of the Better Non magic damage dealing classes in the game best use in making a tank or an archer (not both at the same time). Commonly used in tank and grish builds

Healer = well they get some healing spells and gate spell as well as a Unicorn companion it has to be good for something right ?

Hexblade Full BAB D 10 HD a good spell list very useful as a secondary class.

Incarnate = need more research  or exparance for option on this class in this class  

Knight = Bulwark of Defense is very only problem there is a Maneuver  that does the same thing

Lurk = need more research  or exparance for option on this class in this class  

Monk = bonus feats, full saves, and Wis to AC, For an extra bit of mobility Only good in Enlightened/Sacred fist type Gishes,

Ninja = few very cool class abilities  descent skill monkey,  over all the Swordsage can do the same and at times better then the Ninja.

Paladin = I think we can save a lot of time and argument in just using the crusader instead.

Psion = very good casters. but like the Wizzard and Scorcer have nova issues

Psychic warrior = need more research  or exparance for option on this class in this class  

Ranger = five bonus feats a good spell list good very good synergy with the Scout

Rogue = a solid class Trap finding, Trap Sense, high Reflex, (Improved) Evasion, Search and Spot lead the rogue to be the go to trap finder, and with the right equipment a very useful class

Samurai = full BAB, d10 HD & good Fortitude-save. It also has Sense Motive and Diplomacy in class as notable advantages over Fighter but limited in fighting styles

Scout =  Very Good ranged class with good mobility and trap finding bust mixed with the Ranger.

Shaman= need more research  or exparance for option on this class in this class  

Shugenja = need more research  or exparance for option on this class in this class  

Sorcerer = very useful spontaneous caster with full caster levels

Soulknife = It's "magic" weapon scales slower than normal magic weapons,  over all it is not a good class.

Spellthief = good spell list and can steel spells very useful with the Duskblade or  hexblade

Spirit shaman = need more research  or exparance for option on this class in this class  

Swashbuckler = very good with other Gishes builds

SwordSage = weakest Martial Adapt but very good for grish builds. Or when mixed with either the Crusader or War blade for a very powerful tank

Warblade = Arguably one of the Best Melee classes in the game with D12 HD full BAB and But there is some problems no ranged attack and the highest type of armour is Medium

Warlock = many SLA options that are useful in a secondary class. But also is useful with prisms and other caster that can were armour is useful when combined with a caster class you you have a bad hobbit of not using good spell disabling the Eldritch blast will have more use

Warmage =  very flexible few save-or-die and battlefield control spells, can cast in armour this is class that gets better with Rainbow Servant

Wilder = see Prism

Wizard = Full casting and is your Standard Caster class
[/spoiler]
« Last Edit: December 28, 2010, 11:24:28 AM by Stormcrow »

Saeomon

  • That monkey with the orange ass cheeks
  • ****
  • Posts: 292
  • A real rules lawyer
Re: Brain storming thread for gestalt hand book
« Reply #31 on: December 28, 2010, 01:49:48 AM »
Primary Classes Should help in determination what type of character does primary
Secondary Classes now because gestalt takes two classes and combines two classes to this is where all classes have things that can add to enhance a character some does that more than other so I will list the Class and the strengths that the class can bring and some examples of applying them.

Warning the Next Wall of Text will hurt some people eyes
[spoiler]
Note :  Did not list any NPC  classes or variants and if I had forgotten any sorry it may be added later.

NOTE = most of these are the option of the other and I have been wrong in the past. And a apologise now if I do say something about a classes that people like

Archivist = and intelligent based divine class that has access to any divine spell very good with combined with the wizard. 

Artificer = artificer is very good at making and using magic items and can cast any spell in the game

Barbarian = Strength and Constitution bonuses, fast movement, and a d12 hit die.  Over all very useful for Gish builds

Bard =  need more research  or exparance for option on this class in this class 

Crusader = One of the best tank classes in the game

Druid = I will have to argue that this is one of the most powerful classes in the game.


Duskblade = The duskblade can cast in armour, A d8 hit dice and full BAB make obtain familiar/improved familiar viable feat choices not bad  over all as a secondary  class

Dead Necromancer = need more research  or exparance for option on this class in this class 

Factotum = One of the Best Skill monkeys in the game best combined with any class that needed a High intelligence Score.

Favoured soul = Very Good Spell list and weapon focuses feat ling

Fighter = Useful Feats and One of the Better Non magic damage dealing classes in the game best use in making a tank or an archer (not both at the same time). Commonly used in tank and grish builds

Healer = well they get some healing spells and gate spell as well as a Unicorn companion it has to be good for something right ?

Hexblade Full BAB D 10 HD a good spell list very useful as a secondary class.

Incarnate = need more research  or exparance for option on this class in this class 

Knight = Bulwark of Defense is very only problem there is a Maneuver  that does the same thing

Lurk = need more research  or exparance for option on this class in this class 

Monk = bonus feats, full saves, and Wis to AC, For an extra bit of mobility Only good in Enlightened/Sacred fist type Gishes,

Ninja = few very cool class abilities  descent skill monkey,  over all the Swordsage can do the same and at times better then the Ninja.

Paladin = I think we can save a lot of time and argument in just using the crusader instead.

Psion = very good casters. but like the Wizzard and Scorcer have nova issues

Psychic warrior = need more research  or exparance for option on this class in this class 

Ranger = five bonus feats a good spell list good very good synergy with the Scout

Rogue = a solid class Trap finding, Trap Sense, high Reflex, (Improved) Evasion, Search and Spot lead the rogue to be the go to trap finder, and with the right equipment a very useful class

Samurai = full BAB, d10 HD & good Fortitude-save. It also has Sense Motive and Diplomacy in class as notable advantages over Fighter but limited in fighting styles

Scout =  Very Good ranged class with good mobility and trap finding bust mixed with the Ranger.

Shaman= need more research  or exparance for option on this class in this class 

Shugenja = need more research  or exparance for option on this class in this class 

Sorcerer = very useful spontaneous caster with full caster levels

Soulknife = It's "magic" weapon scales slower than normal magic weapons,  over all it is not a good class.

Spellthief = good spell list and can steel spells very useful with the Duskblade or  hexblade

Spirit shaman = need more research  or exparance for option on this class in this class 

Swashbuckler = very good with other Gishes builds

SwordSage = weakest Martial Adapt but very good for grish builds. Or when mixed with either the Crusader or War blade for a very powerful tank

Warblade = Arguably one of the Best Melee classes in the game with D12 HD full BAB and But there is some problems no ranged attack and the highest type of armour is Medium

Warlock = many SLA options that are useful in a secondary class. But also is useful with prisms and other caster that can were armour is useful when combined with a caster class you you have a bad hobbit of not using good spell disabling the Eldritch blast will have more use

Warmage =  very flexible few save-or-die and battlefield control spells, can cast in armour this is class that gets better with Rainbow Servant

Wilder = see Prism

Wizard = Full casting and is your Standard Caster class
[/spoiler]

FIFY. No, seriously.

[spoiler]
Note:  I did not list any NPC classes or variants. If I have forgotten any, I'm sorry. They may be added later.

NOTE = Most of these are the option of the other. (Editor's note: I tried on that last sentence, but couldn't make heads or tails of it.) I have been wrong in the past. I apologize if I say something bad about a class that people like.

Archivist = an Intelligence-based divine casting class that has access to any divine spell. Very good with combined with Wizard.

Artificer = Artificer is very good at making and using magic items and can use those items to cast any spell in the game.

Barbarian = Strength and Constitution bonuses, fast movement, and a d12 hit die. Very useful for Gish builds.

Bard =  I need more research or experience with this class to understand the options available for it.

Crusader = One of the best tank classes in the game.

Druid = This is one of the most powerful classes in the game.

Duskblade = The Duskblade can cast in armor. It has a d8 hit dice and full BAB. This class makes Obtain Familiar and Improved Familiar viable feat choices. Not bad, overall, as a secondary class.

Dead Necromancer = I need more research or experience with this class to understand the options available for it.

Factotum = One of the Best Skill monkeys in the game. Works best when combined with with a class that needs a high Intelligence score.

Favored Soul = Very good spell list and Weapon Focuses feat.

Fighter = Useful feats and one of the better non-magic damage dealing classes in the game. Best used in making a tank or an archer, though not both at the same time. Commonly used in tank and gish builds.

Healer = Gets some healing spells and the Gate spell, as well as a unicorn companion. It has to be good for something, right?

Hexblade = Full BAB, d10 hit die, and a good spell list. Very useful as a secondary class.

Incarnate = I need more research or experience with this class to understand the options available for it.

Knight = Bulwark of Defense is good. The only problem is that there is a martial maneuver that does the same thing.

Lurk = I need more research or experience with this class to understand the options available for it.

Monk = Bonus feats, full saves, and Wis to AC. Good for an extra bit of mobility. Only good for Enlightened/Sacred Fist-type gishes.

Ninja = A few cool class abilities, and a decent skill monkey. The Swordsage can do the same things, and do them better then the Ninja.

Paladin = I think we can save a lot of time and argument by just using the Crusader instead.

Psion = Very good "casters." Like the Wizard and Sorcerer, they have nova issues.

Psychic Warrior = I need more research or experience with this class to understand the options available for it.

Ranger = Five bonus feats and a good spell list. Has synergy with the Scout.

Rogue = A solid class. Trap-finding, Trap Sense, high Reflex save, (Improved) Evasion, Search and Spot enable the Rogue to be the go-to trap-finder. With the right equipment, this is a very useful class.

Samurai = Full BAB, d10 hit die, and a good Fortitude save. It also has Sense Motive and Diplomacy as class skills. Some might consider these advantages over Fighter. On the other hand, it is limited in its fighting style.

Scout = Very good, highly mobile class. Has Trap-finding. Best when mixed with the Ranger.

Shaman = I need more research or experience with this class to understand the options available for it.

Shugenja = I need more research or experience with this class to understand the options available for it.

Sorcerer = Very useful spontaneous caster, with a full 9 spell levels.

Soulknife = It's "magic" weapon class feature scales slower than normal magic weapons. Not a good class.

Spellthief = Good spell list and can steal spells. Very useful with the Duskblade or Hexblade.

Spirit Shaman = I need more research or experience with this class to understand the options available for it.

Swashbuckler = Very good with other gish builds.

Swordsage = The weakest Martial Adapt but very good for gish builds, or when mixed with either the Crusader or Warblade for a very powerful tank.

Warblade = Arguably one of the best melee classes in the game. A d12 hit die, full BAB. Lacks ranged attack options heavy armor proficiency.

Warlock = Many SLA options that are useful in a secondary class. Also useful with Psions and other casters that can wear armor. Is useful when combined with a caster class. You have a bad habit of not using good spell disabling the Eldritch blast will have more use. (Editor's note: again, I tried to work with that last sentence but couldn't figure it out.)

Warmage = Very flexible. Has few save-or-die and battlefield control spells, but can cast in armor. This is a class that gets better with the Rainbow Servant PrC.

Wilder = See Psion.

Wizard = Full casting. This is your standard caster class.
[/spoiler]

I edited for clarity, and less for content.

JohnnyMayHymn

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 503
  • Lord of the Kitchen Sink
Re: Brain storming thread for gestalt hand book
« Reply #32 on: December 28, 2010, 06:25:34 AM »
um..... I recommend cleric for the list?   

and erudite ( and the spell to power version), binder, even ardent has its uses in gestalt

quality LA deserves a mention:

sharn

ethergaunt

the ghost template class

.....umm    what do you mean by warmage is "Very flexible"?
My (sometimes offensive) Web Comic Faux Blast
Can you find the Wumpus? (Hint: start with the spoiler....)
[spoiler] :beathorse [/spoiler]
...........  :joystick

snakeman830

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 3494
  • BG's resident furry min/maxxer
Re: Brain storming thread for gestalt hand book
« Reply #33 on: December 28, 2010, 12:59:01 PM »
Bulwark of Defense isn't actually replicated by a manuver.  It's close, but not quite.  Bulwark of Defense actually does more than Thicket of Blades.  While Thicket of Blades makes their 5-foot steps provoke attacks of opportunity from you, Bulwark of Defense makes it so they can't take a 5-ft step at all (they have to use a move action if they want to move away).  Even if you don't stop their movement, you cut it with Bulwark, since it takes 2 squares of movement to move 1 square through your threatened area.

Additionally, it frees up your stance to be something else other than lockdown (such as Immortal Fortitude or Martial Spirit at lower levels)
I am constantly amazed by how many DM's ban Tomb of Battle.  The book doesn't even exist!

Quotes:[spoiler]
By yes, she means no.
That explains so much about my life.
hiicantcomeupwithacharacterthatisntaghostwhyisthatamijustretardedorsomething
Why would you even do this? It hurts my eyes and looks like you ate your keyboard before suffering an attack of explosive diarrhea.
[/spoiler]

If using Genesis to hide your phylactry, set it at -300 degrees farenheit.  See how do-gooders fare with a liquid atmosphere.

Ithamar

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 959
  • PM me if you're interested in some Arena action!
Re: Brain storming thread for gestalt hand book
« Reply #34 on: December 28, 2010, 02:46:52 PM »
quality LA deserves a mention
Most definitely!  I was just going to mention how the HD / LA systems becomes so much more playable in a gestalt game.

You want to be a rakshasa swiftblade?  Go for it!  Or a Tauric Monster of Legend Ordained Champion?  Sure thing.

It even makes the silly ol' Half-Dragon more attractive, and don't get me started on Lycanthropes. ;)
Are you worthy of Ascension?
Always accepting gladiators!  Now with a new and improved rule set!

Lycanthromancer

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 4003
    • Email
Re: Brain storming thread for gestalt hand book
« Reply #35 on: December 28, 2010, 03:41:52 PM »
It even makes the silly ol' Half-Dragon more attractive, and don't get me started on Lycanthropes. ;)
Don't I know it...
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

Wings of Peace

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 82
    • Email
Re: Brain storming thread for gestalt hand book
« Reply #36 on: December 28, 2010, 08:13:13 PM »
Any dedicated casting build//Generic Warrior

Widow

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 469
Re: Brain storming thread for gestalt hand book
« Reply #37 on: December 29, 2010, 03:08:35 AM »
Don't forget to mention all the feats that let you add the levels of two basic classes together for certain class abilities.  Probably not in the spirit of the game, but quite fun in gestalt games.

I am always a fan of mixing a full caster with a prestige class that has neat abilities, but is usually a poor choice because it lacks full spell progression.  Something like

Beguiler 20//Factotum 8/Monk 2/Eldrich Master 10  (adds two spell lists from other classes to your own, but grants no progression). or

Dread Necromancer 20//Paragon 1/Cleric 2/Paragon 2/Eldrich master 10/Uncanny Trickster 3

Epimetheus

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 430
Re: Brain storming thread for gestalt hand book
« Reply #38 on: December 29, 2010, 03:56:10 AM »
It would be really nice to see what choices of prestige classes would work well for gestalt. Early entry is nice too. Are the only restrictions that you can't go into two PrC's at the same time, and that dual progression PrC's are banned?

A cleric or a druid are already good enough alone. DMM Persist (cloistered) Cleric // Druid is a little bit too much. Bite of the Werebear, Divine Power, and Owl's Insight, + all day Wildshape, on one character! (Sure, an archivist could do most of this too, but these wis-based casters benefit so much more.) Since Owl's Insight has been Persisted (and potentially Extended too), I think you also get the bonus spells out of it. If you're into persisting Greater Consumptive Field too, then you've won the game, as your CL, DC's, and Spells per day skyrocket into the infinities.

Perhaps also including builds that only go to lvl 10 would be nice, since a lvl 20 gestalt is a bit too much.

PlzBreakMyCampaign

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1373
  • Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental
Re: Brain storming thread for gestalt hand book
« Reply #39 on: December 29, 2010, 04:43:20 AM »
I'm sorry, but I think most of the boards will agree that a ghestalt handbook should discuss much more than just random class combinations. Hell, I'll do it if there is demand.

Why? balance, balance balance. Otherwise its what everyone said above about factotums or dual fullcasters. My old mixing gestalt and nongestalt thread has bearing on this as do ECL discussions and tier discussion, as does of course balance. So basically right up my alley

But "monk+fighter = LOL" isn't enough
[Spoiler]
Quote
An interesting read, nice to see a civil discussion
The point of Spell Resistance is to make it harder to get buffed.
And healed. Don't forget that.
Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.
[/Spoiler]

Old Geezer's Law of Hobby Taste: The more objectively inconsequential a hobby is, the more disagreements within the community will be expressed in outrageously insulting, overblown, and ludicrously emotionally laden terms.

More Funny than Humble[Spoiler]
Quote from: PlzBreakMyCampaign
Your a shifter... you have all you ever need.
It blows MoMF out of the water

But if your greedy for more [Wish] for something that only effects you, like another class level or two that doesn't count against your ECL.
Quote from: hungryhungryhippo987
Yes, I'm the 3.0 "Masters of the Wild" shifter, the awesome kind. My favorite form to take is Force Dragon. Yes, I am immortal ... My character is hands down the coolest guy in the campaign and there is nothing I could possibly want.
PBMC gets a cookie for DotA r