Author Topic: Need help making invulnerable wizard.  (Read 8936 times)

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Lycanthromancer

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Re: Need help making invulnerable wizard.
« Reply #20 on: December 26, 2010, 01:20:11 PM »
He did say no metamagic...
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Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
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shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
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JaronK

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Re: Need help making invulnerable wizard.
« Reply #21 on: December 26, 2010, 01:23:16 PM »
Aw crap, missed that.  Nevermind SCM and Anima Mage then.  Shapeshift into a Dire Tortoise and have fun with Time Stop/Celerity then, I suppose.

JaronK

bjornvikingholt

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Re: Need help making invulnerable wizard.
« Reply #22 on: December 26, 2010, 01:40:21 PM »
as long as your constraints apply to the bad guys, i dont see much reason to deviate from standard protocol.

1. go first.
2. time stop
2.x stuff
3. go again


im a big fan of spell fire, why yes i think i will absorb those first two rounds of spells you throw at me and maybe give it back to you.

no save spells.

shadows/ghosts and tk are your friends, even when they are not controlled by you.


the constrains apply to the normal enemies but not bosses, CR 30+ dragons (shivering touch is my friend) who can metamagic the crap out of us and have magic items as well as artifacts (then we get them if we win) Spell fire? TK?

Turtle up in a demiplane and only ever come out through Astral Projection.  Also, <censored for graphic description of the blood eagle method of execution> out of your DM for effectively banning every decent to good caster PrC there is, and then snap his campaign over your knee by never actually being there.  Take Contact Other Plane if possible as an Archmage SLA, and pop into and out of the time stream of his campaign world from your demiplane as desired for maximum damage, content in knowing the 6 seconds they experience in their time is a whole 6 centuries of prep time for you.  Even without CoP, you can A)Outlive 99.999% of your problems, and B)Out-turn everyone at any time.  Not to mention literally thousands of years of observation time if you use another demiplane with an ungodly slow time trait (so that 6 seconds on the prime is like .0000001 second on yours, or something equally slow).  Not to mention it makes it hard to have the DM ask how familiar you are with the place when you have an etching of literally every square inch of the entire planet in your tower.

Just my two cp.  Oh, and size 12 boot >.>

You sir, are a genius.
How do I make my demiplane invulnerable to assault while I am sleeping there?

altpersona

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Re: Need help making invulnerable wizard.
« Reply #23 on: December 26, 2010, 03:15:40 PM »
Aw crap, missed that.  Nevermind SCM and Anima Mage then.  Shapeshift into a Dire Tortoise and have fun with Time Stop/Celerity then, I suppose.

JaronK

So, we have standard wealth to work with, but no magic items allowed, yes psionic items, no metamagic allowed. Level 20 start with best 4/5d6 for abilities. The enemies will have saves that can almost never fail. There are no outsiders to summon and wish will be turned against the wisher. We get a feat at every level and when ability scores go up we can choose 2 instead of one. The DM encourages as much cheesing as possible given those limits, so what is the best way to build a wizard that cannot be killed?

I was thinking Wizard 8/Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 7/ Archamage 5

Archamage lets me make up for the metamagic I do not get, Initiate gives me some defense. Conjuration specialist with immediate magic gives me the ability to run like a little girl. I think I will take every school focus but do not think that will be enough. Shapechange is banned so I cannot become a gibbering orb with reserves of strength.

Any spell from any book is otherwise a go. Any feat from any book as well.
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Lycanthromancer

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Re: Need help making invulnerable wizard.
« Reply #24 on: December 26, 2010, 03:19:14 PM »
Aw crap, missed that.  Nevermind SCM and Anima Mage then.  Shapeshift into a Dire Tortoise and have fun with Time Stop/Celerity then, I suppose.

JaronK

So, we have standard wealth to work with, but no magic items allowed, yes psionic items, no metamagic allowed. Level 20 start with best 4/5d6 for abilities. The enemies will have saves that can almost never fail. There are no outsiders to summon and wish will be turned against the wisher. We get a feat at every level and when ability scores go up we can choose 2 instead of one. The DM encourages as much cheesing as possible given those limits, so what is the best way to build a wizard that cannot be killed?

I was thinking Wizard 8/Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 7/ Archamage 5

Archamage lets me make up for the metamagic I do not get, Initiate gives me some defense. Conjuration specialist with immediate magic gives me the ability to run like a little girl. I think I will take every school focus but do not think that will be enough. Shapechange is banned so I cannot become a gibbering orb with reserves of strength.

Any spell from any book is otherwise a go. Any feat from any book as well.
Shapechange, yes. Shapeshifting, no.

There are other ways to get those abilities than shapechange, yo.
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

altpersona

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Re: Need help making invulnerable wizard.
« Reply #25 on: December 26, 2010, 05:01:42 PM »
sorry i missed the part where he was playing a druid / chameleon

im also assuming that since change is out that poly is going to be less than spectacular, unless they are gonna use 3.0 poly or something like that.

The goal of power is power. - idk
We are not descended from fearful men. - Murrow

The Final Countdown is now stuck in your head.

Anim-manga sux.


The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Need help making invulnerable wizard.
« Reply #26 on: December 26, 2010, 08:41:51 PM »
yes, telekickassness.

spellfire from forgotten realms, absorbs magic at 1 spell level per point of constitution.
Problem is that it takes a readied action...
It inherited the readied action from the Rod of Absorption... which no longer requires one in 3.5
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Lycanthromancer

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Re: Need help making invulnerable wizard.
« Reply #27 on: December 26, 2010, 08:42:27 PM »
I'd rather have an actual rod (yeah, that's what he said), which can then fuel my spells.

Though proper use of synchronicity would go a long way toward making spellfire wielders viable.
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

AndyJames

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Re: Need help making invulnerable wizard.
« Reply #28 on: December 26, 2010, 08:44:28 PM »
yes, telekickassness.

spellfire from forgotten realms, absorbs magic at 1 spell level per point of constitution.
Problem is that it takes a readied action...
It inherited the readied action from the Rod of Absorption... which no longer requires one in 3.5
I think the 3.5 update of the FR books says it is still a readied action... But I could be wrong.

Tonymitsu

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Re: Need help making invulnerable wizard.
« Reply #29 on: December 26, 2010, 09:51:35 PM »


You sir, are a genius.
How do I make my demiplane invulnerable to assault while I am sleeping there?

Well first point out to your DM that Plane Shifting to your little demiplane requires, per the PHB, "a small, forked rod keyed specifically to the desired destination."  Then ask who is stealing your dinnerware again.

Failing that, either hire a cleric on retainer or take the Leadership feat to obtain one.  You may also be able to use Gate bring in an outsider that can cast cleric spells, and then cast Simulacram to have a functional duplicate long after Gate ends (like forever).  Have him cast the Forbiddance spell (Players Handbook) until the entirety of your 180 foot demiplane is covered.  Now nobody can enter or exit the plane.  Ever.  Not even you.  When you feel like going somewhere, ask him to dispel one of the fields while you cast Astral Projection, and recast it afterwards.
Further details to be found here, including having said cleric also stand by to cast Revivify on your body if something should somehow happen (say, your astral cord is severed).
« Last Edit: December 26, 2010, 10:08:45 PM by Tonymitsu »

Lycanthromancer

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Re: Need help making invulnerable wizard.
« Reply #30 on: December 26, 2010, 09:53:59 PM »
Bonus points if your cleric buddy never EVER has to sleep, or even rest.

See: necropolitan, neraphim, and/or warforged.
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

bjornvikingholt

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Re: Need help making invulnerable wizard.
« Reply #31 on: December 26, 2010, 10:10:40 PM »
Bonus points if your cleric buddy never EVER has to sleep, or even rest.

See: necropolitan, neraphim, and/or warforged.

He still needs to regain spells somehow. But i see the general gist of things. Invulnerable wizard sits in his fast time plane and projects awesome at the mere mortals beyond. Warforged are out, as are any setting specific thing, the campaign is a modified epic dark sun. The most we can get away with is necropolitan as undead infest the place. I presume necropolitan is the only way I do not age to death?

skydragonknight

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Re: Need help making invulnerable wizard.
« Reply #32 on: December 26, 2010, 10:14:37 PM »
Bonus points if your cleric buddy never EVER has to sleep, or even rest.

See: necropolitan, neraphim, and/or warforged.

He still needs to regain spells somehow. But i see the general gist of things. Invulnerable wizard sits in his fast time plane and projects awesome at the mere mortals beyond. Warforged are out, as are any setting specific thing, the campaign is a modified epic dark sun. The most we can get away with is necropolitan as undead infest the place. I presume necropolitan is the only way I do not age to death?
Elan should work as well as they are immortal and also psionic. Unless the "modified" part takes away the psionic theme of dark sun.
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

bjornvikingholt

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Re: Need help making invulnerable wizard.
« Reply #33 on: December 26, 2010, 10:17:57 PM »
Bonus points if your cleric buddy never EVER has to sleep, or even rest.

See: necropolitan, neraphim, and/or warforged.

He still needs to regain spells somehow. But i see the general gist of things. Invulnerable wizard sits in his fast time plane and projects awesome at the mere mortals beyond. Warforged are out, as are any setting specific thing, the campaign is a modified epic dark sun. The most we can get away with is necropolitan as undead infest the place. I presume necropolitan is the only way I do not age to death?
Elan should work as well as they are immortal and also psionic. Unless the "modified" part takes away the psionic theme of dark sun.
No, emphasis is still heavily on psionics. I am just trying to prove that even restricted, wizard always does better, and I have only ever played arcane casters. And never an optimized one before. Elan is in, did not know they were immortal. Is it better than Necropolitan?

Lycanthromancer

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Re: Need help making invulnerable wizard.
« Reply #34 on: December 26, 2010, 10:19:58 PM »
Bonus points if your cleric buddy never EVER has to sleep, or even rest.

See: necropolitan, neraphim, and/or warforged.

He still needs to regain spells somehow. But i see the general gist of things. Invulnerable wizard sits in his fast time plane and projects awesome at the mere mortals beyond. Warforged are out, as are any setting specific thing, the campaign is a modified epic dark sun. The most we can get away with is necropolitan as undead infest the place. I presume necropolitan is the only way I do not age to death?
Clerics don't have to rest to regain spells. They regain them 1/day at a specific time of day.
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

Tonymitsu

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Re: Need help making invulnerable wizard.
« Reply #35 on: December 26, 2010, 10:23:26 PM »
Bonus points if your cleric buddy never EVER has to sleep, or even rest.

See: necropolitan, neraphim, and/or warforged.

He still needs to regain spells somehow. But i see the general gist of things. Invulnerable wizard sits in his fast time plane and projects awesome at the mere mortals beyond. Warforged are out, as are any setting specific thing, the campaign is a modified epic dark sun. The most we can get away with is necropolitan as undead infest the place. I presume necropolitan is the only way I do not age to death?

As if.

When casting the spell Genesis, you decide "all aspects" of the plane you create.  While not explicitly stated, it is heavily implied you can also control the flow of time.
You simply decide that your plane is timeless, that it's occupants do not age, and time spent there does not count against them when they go somewhere else (to prevent the rapid onset of crumbling to dust).
The cheese comes into play when deciding to use a hyper-accelerated time, such that 24 hours on your plane is equal to 1 second on the Material Plane, or however cheesy you want.

Not sure how it relates overall to being invulnerable, but if aging to death is a concern of yours then Elan will work.  Note though that their immortality is a result of an errata to the Age Category table in XPH that removed their maximum age.

Then there is always lichdom, necropolitan, or this handy thread.



Clerics don't have to rest to regain spells. They regain them 1/day at a specific time of day.

+1 to this.  Clerics need 1 hour in prayer change and regain their spells.  That's it.

skydragonknight

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Re: Need help making invulnerable wizard.
« Reply #36 on: December 26, 2010, 10:35:02 PM »
No, emphasis is still heavily on psionics. I am just trying to prove that even restricted, wizard always does better, and I have only ever played arcane casters. And never an optimized one before. Elan is in, did not know they were immortal. Is it better than Necropolitan?

Would make a good cerebremancer. It's generally best with a good source of power points-an elan ability to prevent damage to yourself as an immediate action at 2 damage/power point(4/power point with a feat). But IoSV veils and greater mirror image should do the trick. I forget if Necropolitans lose their Con to Hit Points, because that's the only disadvantage I see of going undead.
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

bjornvikingholt

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Re: Need help making invulnerable wizard.
« Reply #37 on: December 26, 2010, 10:44:15 PM »
No, emphasis is still heavily on psionics. I am just trying to prove that even restricted, wizard always does better, and I have only ever played arcane casters. And never an optimized one before. Elan is in, did not know they were immortal. Is it better than Necropolitan?

Would make a good cerebremancer. It's generally best with a good source of power points-an elan ability to prevent damage to yourself as an immediate action at 2 damage/power point(4/power point with a feat). But IoSV veils and greater mirror image should do the trick. I forget if Necropolitans lose their Con to Hit Points, because that's the only disadvantage I see of going undead.
Necro looses con but gets d12, and with venerable stage that is better than having 13 con. Also, with dead guy immunities I'm leaning towards necro. I, being a pessimist, will assume the enemies all have true sight (epic game) so greater mirror image less effective than it usually is.

Provided the DM bans time shenanigans with the demiplane, then what?
« Last Edit: December 26, 2010, 10:57:47 PM by bjornvikingholt »

Tonymitsu

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Re: Need help making invulnerable wizard.
« Reply #38 on: December 27, 2010, 12:38:29 AM »
Provided the DM bans time shenanigans with the demiplane, then what?

Then you shrug.

You still have a completely impenetrable barrier fortress demi-plane from which to hatch your machinations from.  Barring direct intervention from a deity (or house-ruling from the DM), nobody is going to get in there if you don't want them to.

When your DM says "do the cheesiest thing you can, with as much preparation you need" to a wizard, you pretty become Thanos at he obtained the Infinity Gauntlet:  omniscient, omnipotent, and all but undefeatable, and only blatant carelessness on the part of the player can cause them to fail.  ;)


Endarire

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Re: Need help making invulnerable wizard.
« Reply #39 on: December 27, 2010, 03:01:02 AM »
And if you really want to annoy your opponents, take the feats Shadow Weave Magic (Player's Guide to Faerun 43) and Practiced Spellcaster (Complete Arcane 82).  Why?

Practiced Spellcaster forgives your CL loss from Shadow Weave Magic.

Shadow Weave Magic lets you cast in a Dead Magic Zone (Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting 57).  An antimagic field will still stop you, though.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2010, 03:02:52 AM by Endarire »
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"