Author Topic: Optimizing Shugenja: am I on crack?  (Read 7482 times)

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Kuroimaken

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Re: Optimizing Shugenja: am I on crack?
« Reply #20 on: July 19, 2008, 05:39:02 AM »
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(Now, if you could just choose spells from Air + Earth, I think you'd be set).

You can, actually. Pick neither as your main, pick an order from either element, then cherry-pick the spells you DO care about with your "extra" spells known (i.e. spells that don't have to be your main element). You said it yourself, there are very few spells you care about from each element scattered throughout each list, so why bother sticking to your main element?

Back in 3.0 I used to play a Fire Shugenja that was awfully damn solid, partially because I worried more about what spells he'd learn outside of his main element, and partially because the DM gave me access to a spell list exclusive from his world (over 90% of which was blast, too).

Maybe the class might be good enough for optimization that way, I'm not sure though. Definitely not at the level of Wizard brokenness, but then again, what IS on that level besides CoDzilla?
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Squirrelloid

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Re: Optimizing Shugenja: am I on crack?
« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2008, 08:04:01 PM »
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(Now, if you could just choose spells from Air + Earth, I think you'd be set).

You can, actually. Pick neither as your main, pick an order from either element, then cherry-pick the spells you DO care about with your "extra" spells known (i.e. spells that don't have to be your main element). You said it yourself, there are very few spells you care about from each element scattered throughout each list, so why bother sticking to your main element?

Back in 3.0 I used to play a Fire Shugenja that was awfully damn solid, partially because I worried more about what spells he'd learn outside of his main element, and partially because the DM gave me access to a spell list exclusive from his world (over 90% of which was blast, too).

Maybe the class might be good enough for optimization that way, I'm not sure though. Definitely not at the level of Wizard brokenness, but then again, what IS on that level besides CoDzilla?

Losing half your spells to a crappy element is not viable.  It also defers your good spells for another level each spell level.

Seriously, you just don't get enough spells outside your element to make taking a bad element worthwhile.

So when I said that, I meant focus on Air or Earth and get to pick all/most of your outside element spells from the other one.  As it stands, not choosing earth or air is like asking for a kick in the balls.
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Kuroimaken

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Re: Optimizing Shugenja: am I on crack?
« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2008, 11:23:47 PM »
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Losing half your spells to a crappy element is not viable.  It also defers your good spells for another level each spell level.

Don't the orders already have most of the good spells there anyway, though?
Gendou Ikari is basically Gregory House in Kaminashades. This is FACT.

For proof, look here:

http://www.layoutjelly.com/image_27/gendo_ikari/

[SPOILER]
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
My Unitarian Jihad Name is: Brother Katana of Enlightenment.
Get yours.[/SPOILER]

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Squirrelloid

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Re: Optimizing Shugenja: am I on crack?
« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2008, 05:47:58 AM »
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Losing half your spells to a crappy element is not viable.  It also defers your good spells for another level each spell level.

Don't the orders already have most of the good spells there anyway, though?

You know, as it stands, I wasn't willing to read the wall of text that is a Shugenja's class features closely enough to figure out if your school chooses your element or your element limits your school, but I thought I saw something like that, so it may not help.
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Midnight_v

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Re: Optimizing Shugenja: am I on crack?
« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2008, 12:49:02 PM »
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It's best with a class that can raise the dead though, due to the Tenebrous Apostate's abilities.
If they'd ever updated Mahou-Tsukai, this wouldn't be a problem. Although, technically, BECAUSE they never updated it, Mahou-Tsukai are actually valid material.

Squirrelloid, could you do the same analysis for the other elements? I agree with you on the Earth line, but I'm not so sure about the rest.

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Yeah...and earth is probably the best of the lot too, overall.  Pretty sad.
Losing access to illusions + Teleport sucks pretty bad for me...
Isn't Maho-tskai the same as the Tainted scholar? I never paid it any attention.
Also and this is just speculation but isn't Hexer, updated to "hexblade", Damn is there a list somewhere we can reference?
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Stratovarius

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Re: Optimizing Shugenja: am I on crack?
« Reply #25 on: July 21, 2008, 01:22:14 PM »
Hexer and Hexblade are very, very separate classes. The Hexblade is most definitely not an update of the Hexer, and no mention has been made of it.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2008, 01:47:23 PM by Stratovarius »
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Midnight_v

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Re: Optimizing Shugenja: am I on crack?
« Reply #26 on: July 21, 2008, 01:26:18 PM »
Hexer and Hexblade are very, very separate classes. The Hexblade is most definitely not an update of the Hexblade, and no mention has been made of it.
Forgive me, I went and looke up the other two as well, I'm actually close the classes are the same the entry req's changed from maho to tainted, but they have the same class features. Still *sigh* failure.
My... my 3.0fu is weak. ... forgive...me... *plays dead*

*hops up* You're not on crack though, this type of challenge is what makes us Brilliant Gameologists  :lol
researching....

EDIT: Squirrelloid's analysis is great btw more G-fu for you! I see two prc's that maybe be excellently handy.
1. Sacred exorsist
2. Contemplative.
So in this case athiesm make you weaker, choose a god, Kossuth *for example* god of fire, chose fire and earth,
gain turn undead,
Later take sacred exocrist Gain a domain (of your choice from your diety's portfolio.) Actually kossuth really wouldn't work we to take sacred exorcist we have to have either dispel evil or dissmissal on our lists, I'd have to check back and see if they're on the spell list somewhere I'd be afraid it'd be on air and after the sell for earth shugenja well I don't see how we could give that up.
But essentially we've picked up two levels and two huge gates to power. Turn and A domain heck maybe 2 if you can' find anything better
« Last Edit: July 21, 2008, 02:34:43 PM by Midnight_v »
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Kuroimaken

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Re: Optimizing Shugenja: am I on crack?
« Reply #27 on: July 21, 2008, 02:35:52 PM »
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You know, as it stands, I wasn't willing to read the wall of text that is a Shugenja's class features closely enough to figure out if your school chooses your element or your element limits your school, but I thought I saw something like that, so it may not help.

There's no limitation of the sort. The only restriction is that you can't, for example, take an Air order if you're an Earth Shugenja. There's an itty bit of text that suggests that sometimes order MAY choose your main element for you, but it's fluff.
Gendou Ikari is basically Gregory House in Kaminashades. This is FACT.

For proof, look here:

http://www.layoutjelly.com/image_27/gendo_ikari/

[SPOILER]
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
My Unitarian Jihad Name is: Brother Katana of Enlightenment.
Get yours.[/SPOILER]

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Midnight_v

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Re: Optimizing Shugenja: am I on crack?
« Reply #28 on: July 21, 2008, 02:51:27 PM »
Wait... what'd you think about the 2 prc's? Good bad indifferent? To far away from the class, like jaronk's?
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Kuroimaken

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Re: Optimizing Shugenja: am I on crack?
« Reply #29 on: July 21, 2008, 10:15:14 PM »
I didn't really have much time to check them out properly, honestly, but I'll get back on it soonish.
Gendou Ikari is basically Gregory House in Kaminashades. This is FACT.

For proof, look here:

http://www.layoutjelly.com/image_27/gendo_ikari/

[SPOILER]
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
My Unitarian Jihad Name is: Brother Katana of Enlightenment.
Get yours.[/SPOILER]

I HAVE BROKEN THE 69 INTERNETS BARRIER!