Author Topic: Eldritch Theurge --> Iot7FV  (Read 5033 times)

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Staminator

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Eldritch Theurge --> Iot7FV
« on: December 20, 2010, 11:24:49 PM »
I've done some preliminary checking with the DMs on the site I'll be playing, and they won't allow a vanilla Warlock to qualify for Iot7FV. (Their read of the prereqs was, "Must be able to cast 4th-level arcane spells, 2 of which must be abjuration in order to properly screw over sorcerers.")

So...I can get into it a level later, but it's going to take more work - and I need some serious help in how to seriously pimp out a wizard's save-or-suck area spell list.


[spoiler=Allowed sources - if it's not listed, I can't use it.]PHB, DMG, MM1.
All Completes except CChampion and CPsionic.
Cityscape, Dungeonscape, Frostburn, Sandstorm, Stormwrack.
Drow of the Underdark and Heroes of Battle.
Spell Compendium.
Any WotC FR source 3.5 (including dragon mag articles specifically listed as so)[/spoiler]

Race-wise, I'm limited to standard FR races (no LA+ or templates). Half-elves get a bonus feat from the skill-affinity set, which is an option since I need Skill Focus (spellcraft)...and I'd rather not play a human this time around.

I have 13 levels to play around with, total.  Stats-wise, I have a 32-point which I was going to drop in as 8/16/16/16/8/10.  The build stub, so far, is Wizard1/Warlock1-3/Wizard2-3/EldTheurg1-4/Iot7FV1-3 - this gives me Wizard7 and Warlock10, plus two Wardings a day.
[spoiler=feats]Skill Focus (spellcraft) (B, either from half-elf or halfling)
Scribe Scroll (B Wiz)
Spell Focus (abjuration) (1st)
Greater Spell Focus (abjuration (3rd)

Three feats open. I was considering either Improved Familiar, or Ability Focus (Warding) for a higher DC[/spoiler]
[spoiler=invocations]Leasts:
Otherworldly Whispers, Entropic Warding, and probably Eldritch Spear

Lessers:
Flee the Scene, I'm grabbing. The others...Fell Flight, Eldritch Chain, Walk Unseen?[/spoiler]
[spoiler=spells]Most of the help is going to be needed here.

Spells, limited as they are, are going to have to give me some more versatility in offense (area spells via Spellblast) and some decent defenses. I'm not totally versed in the breadth of the Save-Or-X list, so don't laugh too hard. :)

1st:
Color Spray, Shield, Grease, Benign Transposition, Hail of Stone (heh, same FRA!). Others?

2nd:
Glitterdust, Mirror Image, Resist Energy, Ray of Stupidity, Shadow Spray are the only ones that I can see. Others?

3rd:
Dispel Magic, Explosive Runes, Nondetection (?) Tongues, Greater Mage Armor, Anticipate Teleport, Bands of Steel, Haste/Slow, Great Thunderclap.

4th: (I won't get many of these, so I'll need to make them count)
Dimensional Anchor, Ray Deflection (these two satisfy PrC requirements); Greater Invis, Assay Spell Resistance...[/spoiler]

So...pimp my ride. :)

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Eldritch Theurge --> Iot7FV
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2010, 11:36:39 PM »
Just double checking - is website stuff allowed?
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Staminator

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Re: Eldritch Theurge --> Iot7FV
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2010, 12:49:25 AM »
Only if WotC and specifically marked as Forgotten Realms content.

Echoes

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Re: Eldritch Theurge --> Iot7FV
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2010, 12:56:31 AM »
I need to get this off my chest: your DM(s) are being retarded. CArc specifically says you can go Warlock -> Iot7F, provided you take some crappy invocations. But whatever, this is actually probably less of a shitty deal than doing it by the book because you don't have to set 5 invocations on fire to qualify. Anyways, onto the ramblings.

If you're advancing Warlock, why are you dumping Cha to focus on your anemic casting? You're 3 spell levels behind; a cohort's cohort would bring more spellcasting to the table. Your wizard casting can be useful, but not offensively. Use it to shore up your defenses and cover niche utility needs. In fact, you should probably go Sorcerer instead, even if it costs you a level of warlock advancement. That way, Cha helps you twice over, and it sets your Iot7V DCs to Cha rather than Int (unless your DMs will let you use Warlock as your "primary casting class" for Iot7V, in which case it's less important).

That said, Ability Focus is pretty solid, both for your warding and for your eldritch blast. Practiced Spellcaster (warlock) is a solid pick as well, netting you an extra bounce from eldritch chain. Next level you get your first greater invocation, which should honestly be noxious blast. Coupled with eldritch chain, that gives you a very respectable spamable multi-target SoD.

Also, you need baleful utterance. Seriously, it's just about the best Least invocation by a wide margin. Eldritch spear and entropic warding are pretty lame; grab dark one's own luck and baleful utterance instead. Otherworldly whispers isn't bad, although it would be a lot better if you had access to Knowledge Devotion. Beguiling influence would probably be more useful if you go Half-elf (stack the diplo-spam!), but it's not a huge deal either way.

For lesser invocations, walk unseen has some redundancy with improved invisibility. You could do worse than swapping it for charm, esp. if you go with beguiling influence - charm 'em and then diplo 'em to make it permanent, but again it's not a huge issue either way.

For greater invocations, like I said I highly recommend noxious blast next, followed by vitriolic blast (no SR + ongoing damage is useful, if not exactly exciting). Chilling tentacles isn't too bad, although at this point it's underwhelming against what you'll be up against.

One question: why no polymorph, or at least alter self? The benefits are huge, esp. given your limited spellcasting.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2010, 12:59:00 AM by Echoes »
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Re: Eldritch Theurge --> Iot7FV
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2010, 01:18:50 AM »
I would consider some early entry cheese via Precocious Apprentice and simply go with a predominantly Warlock style of Eldritch Theurge, even though it puts off your entry into IotSV by a level.  This actually doesn't cost a feat, since you won't need to use one for Practiced Spellcaster [Warlock] later.

Wizard 1/Warlock 4/Eldritch Theurge 6/IotSV 2

I also have to agree on the not-dumping-Charisma part.  Drop your Dex and Con to 14 and use the points from that to boost your Charisma to 16.  You don't *need* high Dex as a Warlock, you hit plenty fine as is with your Eldritch Blasts.  That said, switching over to a full-time Sorcerer wouldn't be a bad idea.  In that case, think you should drop your Int to 10, bump your Charisma to 18, and then put the last two points into Strength?  Why Strength?  Because Sorcerer means Kobold means -4 Strength penalty you really don't want to eat in it's entirety unless you like the idea of doing Shadow Awakened Undead Thought Bottle Tricks.  Unfortunately, it still puts you off by another level.  You might be just entering IotSV by the time the game starts going that route.

Staminator

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Re: Eldritch Theurge --> Iot7FV
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2010, 09:55:01 AM »
Hm. *looks*

So, snatch Sorcerer1 and Precocious Apprentice, then four levels of Warlock before heading into Theurge...then, I'd need eight levels of that before being able to qualify for Iot7FV. Sorcerer9/Warlock12 equivalent, but I'd already have burned all my level allowance.

*scratches head* Ow?

(Kobold is out, by the way. Standard Faerun races only, and even if it was allowed, RoD isn't on the table.)

The other way gets me there two levels sooner - Wizard1/Warlock4/Theurge6 - but requires some MAD rather than letting me pour everything into the casting stat. Ugh.

Havok4

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Re: Eldritch Theurge --> Iot7FV
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2010, 02:09:35 PM »
Is warlock really necessary? You only end up hurting the build by including it. Although it does keep you from being godlike with Iot7V.

Staminator

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Re: Eldritch Theurge --> Iot7FV
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2010, 02:39:31 PM »
Is warlock really necessary? You only end up hurting the build by including it. Although it does keep you from being godlike with Iot7V.
...given the circumstances and DM involved...yeah. Y'know what, screw that noise.  I'll "keep it toned down" by going Sorc9/Iot7FV4. Cast like a Sorc13, kill anyone trying to melee me like a god.

Any good full-casting PrCs I could jump into instead of straight sorc?

Havok4

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Re: Eldritch Theurge --> Iot7FV
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2010, 02:52:14 PM »
Abjurant champion is nice and would have some synergy. Also incantatrix.

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Re: Eldritch Theurge --> Iot7FV
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2010, 04:16:46 PM »
When Kobold isn't a "standard" race, I say it's time to bring out the CoDzilla, but a Sorcerer or Wizard works well, too.

Sorcerer 5/Mindbender 1/MotAO 3/IotSV 4 --> Sorcerer 5/Mindbender 1/MotAO 7/IotSV 7

skydragonknight

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Re: Eldritch Theurge --> Iot7FV
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2010, 09:49:05 PM »
Wizard1/Warlock1-3/Wizard2-3/EldTheurg1-4/Iot7FV1-3/EldTheurg5-7/Iot7FV1-7
Advance Wizard once with Iot7FV for 11th level Wizard 16th level Warlock

Spellblast an Antimagic Field on your enemies and Vitriolic Blast them until they die. Fly and stay out of range. If they use ranged attacks, use Wardings to protect yourself. Also one dark invocation to play with.

Damage output is kinda crappy (though adding spells to your eldritch blast lets you deal with groups of mooks fairly well), but you're rock solid on the defenses and are uniquely suited to deal with enemy casters.
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

Endarire

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Re: Eldritch Theurge --> Iot7FV
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2010, 03:08:41 AM »
Human Wizard5/Incantatrix3/Master Specialist1/Sevenfold VeilX is plenty potent and Faerun compatable.  For sustainability, take a reserve feat or few from Complete Mage.
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

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Re: Eldritch Theurge --> Iot7FV
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2010, 04:18:59 AM »
Human Wizard5/Incantatrix3/Master Specialist1/Sevenfold VeilX is plenty potent and Faerun compatable.  For sustainability, take a reserve feat or few from Complete Mage.
Master Specialist can be taken much earlier than that.

Wizard 3/Master Specialist 3/Incantatrix 3/IotSV X

or

Wizard 2/Master Specialist 3/Incantatrix 3-4/IotSV X

Given the level you're starting at, the extra feat you set on fire for this is actually refunded at creation, and you net a small bonus to Spellcraft checks and an extra 2nd-level slot per day, or you spend the feat to get at your higher-level wardings a little bit faster.

rasmuswagner

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Re: Eldritch Theurge --> Iot7FV
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2010, 04:27:34 AM »
I would consider some early entry cheese via Precocious Apprentice and simply go with a predominantly Warlock style of Eldritch Theurge, even though it puts off your entry into IotSV by a level.  This actually doesn't cost a feat, since you won't need to use one for Practiced Spellcaster [Warlock] later.

Wizard 1/Warlock 4/Eldritch Theurge 6/IotSV 2


Speaking of early entry, remember that a lesser Chasuble of Fell Power is a legal early entry on the Warlock side.

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Re: Eldritch Theurge --> Iot7FV
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2010, 04:35:34 AM »
I would consider some early entry cheese via Precocious Apprentice and simply go with a predominantly Warlock style of Eldritch Theurge, even though it puts off your entry into IotSV by a level.  This actually doesn't cost a feat, since you won't need to use one for Practiced Spellcaster [Warlock] later.

Wizard 1/Warlock 4/Eldritch Theurge 6/IotSV 2


Speaking of early entry, remember that a lesser Chasuble of Fell Power is a legal early entry on the Warlock side.
It's also virtually impossible to obtain by level 5, and afterwards you have to keep it on you at all times 'else you lose *everything.*

The whole point of doing the early entry on the casting side is to fit in that 4th level of Warlock such that you can take 10 on UMD checks.  This makes it substantially easier to auto-succeed on the use of wands and high-level scrolls.  The fact that you get into ET at 1 lower ECL is gravy.

skydragonknight

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Re: Eldritch Theurge --> Iot7FV
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2010, 10:18:58 AM »
Was outside the listed sourcebooks. Though previous build was not.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2010, 09:15:30 PM by skydragonknight »
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

Endarire

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Re: Eldritch Theurge --> Iot7FV
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2010, 08:55:06 PM »
I prefer to take Domain Granted Power: Travel at Wiz5 if I believe the campaign will be CC-heavy, though that's Complete Champion.

It's your call.
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"